For history buffs: Roman Empire and chinese Han Empire

[Tiberius]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...-villagers-descended-from-Roman-soldiers.html

Genetic testing of villagers in a remote part of China has shown that nearly two thirds of their DNA is of Caucasian origin, lending support to the theory that they may be descended from a 'lost legion' of Roman soldiers.

Interesting, but they look a bit asian ?

 

[TurnThyCheek]

Interesting, but they look a bit asian ?

You really are thick.

 

[Tiberius]

You really are thick.

I Hope so, otherwise i would not win my Fitness Bodybuilding competition.

That aside do they have some other prove in the Region?

 

[ohmrlobalobayeh]

Interesting, but they look a bit asian ?

This is a very old article n is redundant. Those living in xinjiang n even western gansu have indo iranian blood. Their ancestors were the Shakya ppl of the Western regions that the Han Chinese soldiers encountered when they first penetrated the area.

Their homeland is in the Pontic steppes of southern russia, which they share with those of the Romans who where migrating Thracic people. So its unsurprsing they have caucasoid features since they share the same originating progenitor gene pool of the caucasus( ancestors of the romans n other indo-europeans migrated westwards, while those of the indo-iranian went eastwards)

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Markus is stating another Han vs Rome thread again....

 

[TurnThyCheek]

Markus is stating another Han vs Rome thread again....

Who's Markus?

 

[+4vsgorillas-Apebane]

Who's Markus?

Tiberius AKA Marcus

I've argued with him before and he usually leaves.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Mass production of bronze crossbow trigger mechanism, Qin Dynasty (221-206 BCE). This shows high level mechanical engineering, metallurgy, and mass production at the same time.

The Roman Empire vs Chinese civilization debate boils down to the crossbow.

First, there is zero evidence that the Romans mass produced the crossbow. The Ancient Greeks may or may not have. But there is no physical archaeological evidence of any Roman crossbow trigger in any museum anywhere in the world.

Other than the gastraphetes, the only other evidence of crossbows in ancient Europe are two stone relief carvings from a Roman grave in Gaul and some vague references by Vegetius. Pictish imagery dated between the 6th and 9th centuries AD do show what appear to be crossbows, but only for hunting, and not military usage. It's not clear how widespread crossbows were in Europe prior to the medieval period or if they were even used for warfare. The small body of evidence and the context they provide point to the fact that the ancient European crossbow was primarily a hunting tool or minor siege weapon. An assortment of other ancient European bolt throwers exist such as the ballista, but these were torsion engines and are not considered crossbows. Crossbows are not mentioned in European sources again until 947 as a French weapon during the siege of Senlis. From the 11th century onward, crossbows and crossbowmen occupied a position of high status in European militaries,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_crossbows

The ballista is NOT a crossbow. It is a torsion device relying on two large torsion springs to propel the bolt forward. Those torsion springs are large, heavy, expensive, maintenance intensive, and difficult to scale down into a handheld weapon.

Furthermore, the Romans could not even build complex siege machines like the ballista until after the absorption of the Greek city-states into the Roman Republic in 146 BCE (Battle of Corinth). The Romans COPIED this technology from the Greeks.

Enough about Rome. Now back to China.

In China, crossbows were being employed in large numbers on the battlefield by the middle of the fourth century BC. Some two centuries later, the crossbow had become nothing less than the standard weapon of the Han armies. The Han Dynasty produced the crossbow in the hundreds of thousands.

The Qin Dynasty mass produced the crossbow. China has mountains of archeological evidence to support this fact.

The Han Dynasty continued this mass production.

How powerful was the Chinese crossbow? It could propel an armor-piercing bolt half a mile (800 meters). You would aim upward at a 45 degree angle to achieve this range.

Chinese crossbows were handheld and man-portable. Not a giant siege weapon like the ballista or scorpion.

The Qin had light crossbowman.

The Qin had armored crossbowman.

The Qin had mounted crossbowman.

The Roman Empire is completely outclassed.

Back to 21st century China...

 

[Nan Yang]

There is also the Halberd used by foot soldiers. Halberd did not become a weapon of choice in Europe until hundreds of years later.

Weapons found in the Terracotta Army
Halberd
Ji in Chinese. Regarded as the combination of Mao and Ge, the halberd has spear and dagger-axe heads for soldiers to stab and catch their combatant. Four halberds found in Pit 1 have decayed wooden handles but some inscriptions can still be seen on the heads.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Swords are probably not a deciding factor in a war between the Roman Empire and China, but I think swords can tell a lot about the metalworking and metallurgy proficiency of a nation.

For most of Roman history, they used a short and stubby sword called the gladius. Later on, they adopted the slightly longer spatha. But the gladius was used throughout their entire history.

But by the time of the Qin Dynasty (221 BC), the Chinese already transitioned to long and thin swords like this.

This Qin Dynasty sword remained in excellent condition for over 2000 years because of the chrome plating.

The longer the sword, the longer the reach of your thrust or swing.
Thin swords have less weight.

Look at Europe's own history of sword development over the centuries.

 

[Cybernetics]

Dragon Blade movie (starring Jackie Chan) fictitious plot was set during Han dynasty and Roman period. Not a historically accurate film but had a good soundtrack.

The Qin Dynasty mass produced the crossbow. China has mountains of archeological evidence to support this fact.

The Han Dynasty continued this mass production.

How powerful was the Chinese crossbow? It could propel an armor-piercing bolt half a mile (800 meters). You would aim upward at a 45 degree angle to achieve this range.

Chinese crossbows were handheld and man-portable. Not a giant siege weapon like the ballista or scorpion.

The Qin had light crossbowman.

The Qin had armored crossbowman.

The Qin had mounted crossbowman.

Han dynasty crossbows were quite intricate, especially the trigger mechanism.

Han crossbow trigger

The protruding rod pointing down is the trigger and the one pointing up is a graduated scaling lug for elevation adjustment to compensate for projectile arc.

But by the time of the Qin Dynasty (221 BC), the Chinese already transitioned to long and thin swords like this.

This Qin Dynasty sword remained in excellent condition for over 2000 years because of the chrome plating.

The longer the sword, the longer the reach of your thrust or swing.
Thin swords have less weight.

Look at Europe's own history of sword development over the centuries.

Chrome plating only started to see regular use during the mid 20th century but China had applications of chrome plating 10-15 microns thick during the Qin dynasty and even earlier (ie. 2500 year old Sword of Goujian). The 2200 year old Qin sword you posted is still intact and sharp due to this.

Sword of Goujian