Focus on training new generation, set up girls’ schools, AIMPLB tells Muslims

Rafi · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
"Burqah is Islamic or not is not the debate here". Vapnope bhai, that is the exact debate here, that is what is not being debated by her. She has been brainwashed to find a religious obligation where there is none. She is in the wrong and is imposing a wrong order. She is the subdued version of Asiya Andrabi who in turn is the female version of the Taliban. How can these people be allowed their choice and destroy society ? OK, India is not quite a non-destroyed society anyway, LOL. During my school and two college years no girl wore the burqa so from where did this college girl suddenly find the explanation to wear it ?

The Hindutvadis are coming in for their own agenda but what about the rest of the Muslims ?

Yes, but you are missing the point, you are trying to impose your will on an adult women who chooses to dress a certain way, just to clarify no women in my family wears the burka or even the hijab, and only one friend of mine wears the hijab. But if they decided it was something they wanted to do, who am i, to enforce me will upon them.

jamahir · Apr 1, 2022

Vapnope said:
Jamahir, your anecdote doesn't represent the whole of Islamic society. As we still have pictures before partition where women can be seen wearing burqah. Veil was considered a symbol of sanctity in Africa even before Islam and since the proponents of burqah quote a verse from Quran, this needs an academic debate (which btw is pretty much there) but saying that your school of thought is the only true islamic, is problematic.

1. The pre-Partition pictures of burqas you saw was one part of society. It was in January I think I watched this nice interview of Tahria Mazhar Ali, the mother of Pakistani-British leftist historian and activist Tariq Ali. Both she and her husband were part of the pre-Partition Indian Communist movement. In it she speaks of pre-Partition Lahore where the females could cycle down the road - without burqa - and no one would harass them. So that contradicts your view of pre-Partition India. Please post those pictures you have.

2. Please post records of your African connect to the veil / burqa etc. Maybe you talk about those having Jewish connection to the burqa like the connection I showed.

3. The Muslim proponents of the burqa have to post here the Quran verses that obligate the burqa.

blain2 said:
None of your business to tell her or any Muslim that they, we have been brainwashed.

It is very well my business by being a Muslim, a current resident of India and more importantly a human who doesn't want obscene in-your-face misinformed and misguided acts in the world but wants serenity and harmony. A few days ago I saw a burqa'ed female passing by my house and taking along her 6-7-year-old daughter who was in full burqa. Was that the choice of that girl ?

blain2 said:
Do you see Muslims telling Hindus or Sikhs what they should wear or not? I see Sikhs without Turbans and could make the same argument that it is not a religious obligation because many Sikhs don't wear it.

Would it help if I said that the people crying for the burqa ( but not for actual problems in India ) point to the Sikh turban as way to stake their claim for the burqa.

blain2 said:
You want to go to Scripture? I can make a point that the Quran mentions women covering. How you implement is based on one's own interpretation and conviction but how in the hell is a local court deciding that Muslim women don't have to cover?

Please do go to scripture then. But then you also say that it's an interpretation. If this court judgement is not liked by Muskan she can depart to be the wife of some "I"SIS or Taliban chap. She is certainly not welcome in progressive Muslim-majority countries.

Rafi said:
Yes, but you are missing the point, you are trying to impose your will on an adult women who chooses to dress a certain way, just to clarify no women in my family wears the burka or even the hijab, and only one friend of mine wears the hijab. But if they decided it was something they wanted to do, who am i, to enforce me will upon them.

Sir, nice that your family members don't wear the burqa but about "they should wear it if they wanted to" it is never the choice for most. A few days ago I saw a burqa'ed female passing by my house and taking along her 6-7-year-old daughter who was in full burqa. Was that the choice of that girl ? Please read post# 5 again.

hussain0216 said:
Yaar communism is a defunct ideology, it's basically collapsed why do you keep bringing this bullshit up?

Who told you that Communism is defunct ? It is there from the Subcontinent to Palestine to Greece and Italy to your own Britain to Russia to even USA.

MilSpec · Apr 1, 2022

Vapnope said:
@jamahir I see you continously attack Muskan for her choice to wear Burqah/hijab, while you have every right to criticize AIMPLB but you, me or AIMPLB should not decide what a girl should wear. Let's leave it to women to decide what to wear and what to not.

I understand that you want people to voice for the progressive ideas however we should not think that a victim is not a victim (Muskan in this case) because he/she fails to speak for other issues (suicide in this case).

Do you think we should not raise our voice for Rohingyas just because they did not raise their voice for Yazidi tribe? Or do you think Kashmiri Pandit should not be sided with because they do not speak for dalits? I hope you understand what i am trying to say here.

Ideally we should raise our voice for every oppression, every biasedness and every inequality in the world.

I agree with the idea, everyone should be free to choose what they want or don't want to wear.

Institutions should be agile enough to adjust their uniform regulations if such requirements are a necisisated by the prevailing situation.

I wonder everyone vocal about choice might have spared a thought to Pakistan backed taliban regime in afghanistan which has imposed the penguin cosplay on to all women there.

Rafi · Apr 1, 2022

MilSpec said:
I agree with the idea, everyone should be free to choose what they want or don't want to wear.

Institutions should be agile enough to adjust their uniform regulations if such requirements are a necisisated by the prevailing situation.

I wonder everyone vocal about choice might have spared a thought to Pakistan backed taliban regime in afghanistan which has imposed the penguin cosplay on to all women there.

Is this a dig at Pakistan, the tacit support for a weak and non hostile govt has nothing to do with religion, it is totally real politik, we will never except a relatively strong A stan, with a decent military, allied with our primary adversary and allow ourselves to be encircled.

You will see Pakistan build up relations with the erstwhile NA, as an insurance policy and remind the Tabs to behave.

MilSpec · Apr 1, 2022

Rafi said:
Is this a dig at Pakistan, the tacit support for a weak and non hostile govt has nothing to do with religion, it is totally real politik, we will never except a relatively strong A stan, with a decent military, allied with our primary adversary and allow ourselves to be encircled.

You will see Pakistan build up relations with the erstwhile NA, as an insurance policy and remind the Tabs to behave.

If Pakistan trained, deployed, protected, and promoted the Taliban, they have to bear responsibility for their discretions too. Whether is the massacre of the Hazaras, burqas and beating for women or the destruction of Bamiyan buddhas. All by tacit approval of Pakistan.

Rafi · Apr 1, 2022

MilSpec said:
If Pakistan trained, deployed, protected, and promoted the Taliban, they have to bear responsibility for their discretions too. Whether is the massacre of the Hazaras, burqas and beating for women or the destruction of Bamiyan buddhas. All by tacit approval of Pakistan.

I am sure you are not naive, come on you are now friends with the Saudi who come to India and abuse indian women of all backgrounds and are allowed to take under age girls back to Saudi, the same Saudi that still preach anti Hindu lectures.

Operation paperclip, arming or Islamist militia, etc etc, all nation states do this, if it is in their strategic national interests.

Joe Shearer · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
Focus on training new generation, set up girls’ schools, AIMPLB tells Muslims
The AIMPLB alleged that the Karnataka government took a stand that went against the community

Mohammed Safi Shamsi, DHNS, Kolkata,

MAR 31 2022, 22:06 IST

UPDATED: MAR 31 2022, 22:12 IST

Muslims should not fall prey to negative propaganda against All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) and should instead encourage a pardah (veil) in Muslim society and focus on training of the new generation, a statement issued by AIMPLB general secretary Maulana Khalid Saifullah Rahmani on Thursday said.

The Muslim body that represents views of a broad section of Indian Muslims also asked Muslims to establish more girls’ schools, and consider education as a service rather than a trade. “For success in litigation, organise dua (prayer). If you adhere to Sharia (Islamic law), no power can take your religious identity from you,” the statement added.

The Board’s general secretary has said that when the issue (hijab) arose in some educational institutions of Karnataka, the board immediately took note of it and contacted state’s responsible individuals, representatives of organisations, and its own associates. The efforts, however, failed.

The Board alleged that the Karnataka government took a stand that went against the community, and the issue spread across the state.

Consequently, the Board approached Supreme Court. “Hijab is an integral part of Sharia, it is obligatory for every Muslim woman to cover her head, and violating it is a grave sin,” the board’s secretary stated.

“Attempts are being made in some quarters to spread propaganda and misunderstandings against the board and an impression is being offered that the board is a mute spectator on this issue. Muslims should never fall prey to this propaganda,” the statement added.

---

Jamahir's comment : LOL, what kind of idiots are these AIMPLB mullahs who call themselves Muslims but are anything but ? They call for duas ( prayer sessions ) for success in legal cases especially when most of the people in the Indian legal profession are not Muslims and these mullahs should have instead called for the reform in the Indian legal system via political and socio-economic radical change. And if such prayer sessions would have worked then this girl wouldn't have died last year in Kerala state in South India :

And the AIMPLB are now calling for transferring the female student population from co-ed schools and colleges to girls schools like would happen a hundred years ago but 100 years ago it happened to get females into schools because of South Asian anti-progress attitude. Even Saudia now has a co-ed university - KAUST - and has allowed restaurants with mixed-gender customer patronage but these Indian mullahs are taking Indian Muslims to a more regressive time in the region. And this all started because of those foolish, misinformed and misguided burqa girls from Shimoga, in particular Angry Indian Burqa Girl Muskan who screamed out her lungs for the burqa yet did not do anything about this girl :

India - Yet another Indian student suicides because of an exam

Caught copying in exam, college girl jumps to death in Bengaluru The parents said Bhavya ended her life as the college had debarred her H M Chaithanya Swamy, DHNS, Bengaluru, MAR 05 2022, 23:53 IST UPDATED: MAR 06 2022, 06:38 IST A 19-year-old B Com student allegedly killed herself by...

defence.pk

I am becoming indifferent to any travails of the mullahs and the burqa fanatics. If they want to do civil war with the Hindutvadis they are welcome to do so. They don't contribute positively to Islam and to humanity so...

@Naofumi @xeuss @Joe Shearer

You have a point, but it is a complex issue.

hussain0216 · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
Who told you that Communism is defunct ? It is there from the Subcontinent to Palestine to Greece and Italy to your own Britain to Russia to even USA.

Yaar it's gone, it's destroyed ideology, every society that embraced it collapsed

You don't represent Indian Muslims, stop Injecting this communist bullshit when it comes to Indian Muslims issues making their lives even more difficult

Joe Shearer · Apr 1, 2022

Vapnope said:
I see you continously attack Muskan for her choice to wear Burqah/hijab, while you have every right to criticize AIMPLB but you, me or AIMPLB should not decide what a girl should wear. Let's leave it to women to decide what to wear and what to not.

This is my personal position on this precisely, circumscribed, however, by the right of the school administration (school only, not college) to assign a uniform, a non-discriminatory one.

I feel no restriction should be applied after school, in any circumstances, with certain additional refinements for security-sensitive or examination-oriented situations.

It was a matter of personal rights, rather than religious rights.

Vapnope said:
Burqah is islamic or not is not the debate here, she should not be harassed for wearing anything she likes that includes bikini or a burqah. Do you think it is appropririate to go and tell women that hey burqah is not islamic so you should throw it away because Hindutvadis harassed you because of it?

blain2 said:
This decision is best left to each individual's personal conviction and choice.

However, at the risk of sounding like the thin end of the wedge, this has to be subject to exceptional situations.

Pajeet · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
While yes India needs to learn from Egypt, India needs to learn from the Communist movement and change its non-sensible national anthem to the modernized and bettered version of The Internationale.

Are you aware of a "communist" called OSHO ?

Vapnope · Apr 1, 2022

MilSpec said:
I agree with the idea, everyone should be free to choose what they want or don't want to wear.

Institutions should be agile enough to adjust their uniform regulations if such requirements are a necisisated by the prevailing situation.

I wonder everyone vocal about choice might have spared a thought to Pakistan backed taliban regime in afghanistan which has imposed the penguin cosplay on to all women there.

We will drift from the topic of the thread if we start discussing Pakistan and Afghanistan however should i remind you of the statement by late Gen Rawat.

// Rawat also offered Pakistan an unusual degree of understanding of its compulsions in Afghanistan, stating: “Pakistan has always treated Afghanistan as its backyard and been concerned about it. As a military leader, I would say ‘Why not? They have to be concerned about their backyard.’ They would always want a situation in Afghanistan that is more favourable to them. Even if it implies speaking to the devil, they will do it.”//

Army Chief Bipin Rawat open to talks with Afghan Taliban, sans conditions

The Army chief was participating in a discussion on terrorism at the ongoing Raisina Dialogue in New Delhi

www.business-standard.com

SuvarnaTeja · Apr 1, 2022

jamahir said:
Focus on training new generation, set up girls’ schools, AIMPLB tells Muslims
The AIMPLB alleged that the Karnataka government took a stand that went against the community

Mohammed Safi Shamsi, DHNS, Kolkata,

MAR 31 2022, 22:06 IST

UPDATED: MAR 31 2022, 22:12 IST

Muslims should not fall prey to negative propaganda against All India Muslim Personal Law Board (AIMPLB) and should instead encourage a pardah (veil) in Muslim society and focus on training of the new generation, a statement issued by AIMPLB general secretary Maulana Khalid Saifullah Rahmani on Thursday said.

The Muslim body that represents views of a broad section of Indian Muslims also asked Muslims to establish more girls’ schools, and consider education as a service rather than a trade. “For success in litigation, organise dua (prayer). If you adhere to Sharia (Islamic law), no power can take your religious identity from you,” the statement added.

The Board’s general secretary has said that when the issue (hijab) arose in some educational institutions of Karnataka, the board immediately took note of it and contacted state’s responsible individuals, representatives of organisations, and its own associates. The efforts, however, failed.

The Board alleged that the Karnataka government took a stand that went against the community, and the issue spread across the state.

Consequently, the Board approached Supreme Court. “Hijab is an integral part of Sharia, it is obligatory for every Muslim woman to cover her head, and violating it is a grave sin,” the board’s secretary stated.

“Attempts are being made in some quarters to spread propaganda and misunderstandings against the board and an impression is being offered that the board is a mute spectator on this issue. Muslims should never fall prey to this propaganda,” the statement added.

---

Jamahir's comment : LOL, what kind of idiots are these AIMPLB mullahs who call themselves Muslims but are anything but ? They call for duas ( prayer sessions ) for success in legal cases especially when most of the people in the Indian legal profession are not Muslims and these mullahs should have instead called for the reform in the Indian legal system via political and socio-economic radical change. And if such prayer sessions would have worked then this girl wouldn't have died last year in Kerala state in South India :

And the AIMPLB are now calling for transferring the female student population from co-ed schools and colleges to girls schools like would happen a hundred years ago but 100 years ago it happened to get females into schools because of South Asian anti-progress attitude. Even Saudia now has a co-ed university - KAUST - and has allowed restaurants with mixed-gender customer patronage but these Indian mullahs are taking Indian Muslims to a more regressive time in the region. And this all started because of those foolish, misinformed and misguided burqa girls from Shimoga, in particular Angry Indian Burqa Girl Muskan who screamed out her lungs for the burqa yet did not do anything about this girl :

India - Yet another Indian student suicides because of an exam

Caught copying in exam, college girl jumps to death in Bengaluru The parents said Bhavya ended her life as the college had debarred her H M Chaithanya Swamy, DHNS, Bengaluru, MAR 05 2022, 23:53 IST UPDATED: MAR 06 2022, 06:38 IST A 19-year-old B Com student allegedly killed herself by...

defence.pk

I am becoming indifferent to any travails of the mullahs and the burqa fanatics. If they want to do civil war with the Hindutvadis they are welcome to do so. They don't contribute positively to Islam and to humanity so...

@Naofumi @xeuss @Joe Shearer

Why are you opposed to Girls only schools and girls wearing hijab or burqa?

You want to tease and harass girls like a Bollywood hero?

jamahir · Apr 2, 2022

hussain0216 said:
Yaar it's gone, it's destroyed ideology, every society that embraced it collapsed

Communist Cuba is better than your Capitalist Britain and certainly more better than your ancestral Capitalist Pakistan. So is North Korea though it is not Communist to have dynastic rule. The dissolution of the USSR was 31 years ago and you take that to decide that Communism is dead ? What kind of logic is that ? Am I talking to you from the a parallel universe ? Didn't I tell you about the current Communist movements from Bangladesh to Palestine to Greece ? Stop talking like a stubborn five-year-old.

hussain0216 said:
You don't represent Indian Muslims, stop Injecting this communist bullshit when it comes to Indian Muslims issues making their lives even more difficult

Yes, Muslim Communists are no longer the face of Indian Muslim activism but be aware, be very aware, become educated that Muslims have been in the Indian Communist movement right from the establishment of the Indian Communist Party in 1920. Note what the British Colonial government called as the Meerut Conspiracy Case. Note on the side also what the 1950s Pakistani civilian administration called as the Rawalpindi Conspiracy perhaps taking inspiration from the British colonial government's book. Unfortunately, the face of the current Indian Muslim is the foul Tableegh Jamaati and that misinformed and misguided Muskan bibi. What wonderful faces these are. :rolleyes:

Oh wait, Muskan doesn't even show her face. :lol:

As for the lives of Indian Muslims becoming difficult it is their own fault. All these years when the Hindutvadis were growing and taking over what were many Indian Muslims doing ? Were they progressing, becoming Elon Musks and Gaddafis ? No, they were self-otherizing themselves by adopting ridiculous dresses and behavior, setting up ghettos even within regular middle class neighborhoods and being the Tableeghi "brothers" they are they were demanding special prayer place and time in their middle class offices instead of contributing to the humanitarian effort of setting up workers unions. Many indian Muslims deserve the troubles they get. I am thinking of getting out of India.

Pajeet said:
Are you aware of a "communist" called OSHO ?

What kind of Communist lolls about in Capitalist money and drugs ?

SuvarnaTeja said:
Why are you opposed to Girls only schools and girls wearing hijab or burqa?

You want to tease and harass girls like a Bollywood hero?

So if I am opposed to the burqa should it mean that I will run around almost raping girls like in that song ?

hussain0216 · Apr 2, 2022

jamahir said:
Communist Cuba is better than your Capitalist Britain and certainly more better than your ancestral Capitalist Pakistan. So is North Korea though it is not Communist to have dynastic rule. The dissolution of the USSR was 31 years ago and you take that to decide that Communism is dead ? What kind of logic is that ? Am I talking to you from the a parallel universe ? Didn't I tell you about the current Communist movements from Bangladesh to Palestine to Greece ? Stop talking like a stubborn five-year-old.

Yes, Muslim Communists are no longer the face of Indian Muslim activism but be aware, be very aware, become educated that Muslims have been in the Indian Communist movement right from the establishment of the Indian Communist Party in 1920. Note what the British Colonial government called as the Meerut Conspiracy Case. Note on the side also what the 1950s Pakistani civilian administration called as the Rawalpindi Conspiracy perhaps taking inspiration from the British colonial government's book. Unfortunately, the face of the current Indian Muslim is the foul Tableegh Jamaati and that misinformed and misguided Muskan bibi. What wonderful faces these are. Oh wait, Muskan doesn't even show her face. As for the lives of Indian Muslims becoming difficult it is their own fault. All these years when the Hindutvadis were growing and taking over what were many Indian Muslims doing ? Were they progressing, becoming Elon Musks and Gaddafis ? No, they were self-otherizing themselves by adopting ridiculous dresses and behavior, setting up ghettos even within regular middle class neighborhoods and being the Tableeghi "brothers" they are they were demanding special prayer place and time in their middle class offices instead of contributing to the humanitarian effort of setting up workers unions. Many indian Muslims deserve the troubles they get. I am thinking of getting out of India.

What kind of Communist lolls about in Capitalist money and drugs ?
View attachment 829663

So if I am opposed to the burqa should it mean that I will run around almost raping girls like in that song ?

Yaar the fact that you have one tiny shitty little like Cuba as the last bastion of communism out of 8 billion people tells you what a utter failure communism has been and has become

Communist parties have virtually no control or effect any more

On every issue of Indian Muslims where they are fighting hindutva extremists, you coming in with some bullshit about communism is seriously not helping

jamahir · Apr 2, 2022

hussain0216 said:
Yaar the fact that you have one tiny shitty little like Cuba as the last bastion of communism out of 8 billion people tells you what a utter failure communism has been and has become

"One tiny shitty Cuba" ? Isn't it enough to be an example to others ? To India and Pakistan for example.

hussain0216 said:
Communist parties have virtually no control or effect any more

And what kind of effect do you want ?

hussain0216 said:
On every issue of Indian Muslims where they are fighting hindutva extremists, you coming in with some bullshit about communism is seriously not helping

Like I said, these so-called Muslims like Muskan deserve the Hindutvadis. Both are alike. They brought their troubles in on themselves by self-otherizing and ghettoizing themselves instead of raising themselves politically and socio-economically and did not participate in the bettering of Indian society and thus left the field open to the Hindutvadis to have a resurgence. Our Indian Muslim @xeuss often calls Indian Hindu society a "depraved society". Aren't Muskan and her Muslim supporters in India equally depraved ? Many Indian Muslims simply are embarrassments to Islam and to humanity in general. Please again go through the OP and my comment there.

Focus on training new generation, set up girls’ schools, AIMPLB tells Muslims