First operation success to Trophy/Windbreaker APS

[500]

T-55 were not scrapped, tired to repeat. And Drozd was not phased out, but went out of production. Drozd was in service for decades

It was introduced in 1983 and took out in late 1980-es. How its "decades" for u? You cant make a simple math?

There are even T-80s with old Drozd in service,

Not a single T-80 with Drozd was ever in service.

Arena was also deployed on T-80s.

Not a single Arena was ever deployed.

Even the Ukrainian t-84 is deployed with APS, Arena and Zaslon. Other Drozd versions were tested and cleared for export. Some chinese tanks use Drozd.

Nonsense.

In later models, modern ERA and countermeasures (Shtora) made those APS redundant.

All Russian tanks have either Kontakt-1 or Kontakt-5 ERA which is not effective vs. tandem warheads. Also they dont cover tank completely, there are many gaps. Shtora has limited angles and is not effective vs modern missiles thats why Indians rejected it.

 

[500]

Area of T-90A not covered by ERA:

Indian T-90S is better though:

 

[nightcrawler]

@500
Now you are making me laugh..

Drozd-2 and Arena are being marketed but never deployed.

Marketed but not deployed hehehe

 

[500]

@500
Now you are making me laugh..


Marketed but not deployed hehehe

Whats so funny about it?

 

[mnd]

It was introduced in 1983 and took out in late 1980-es. How its "decades" for u? You cant make a simple math?

Equipped and developed in 1978 and mass production years later. Deployed for years in Afghanistan. In early 90s was no longer produced, not "removed" because of whatever the reason you give. The old tanks were upgraded with ERA and countermeasures, wich made Drozd redundant.

Not a single T-80 with Drozd was ever in service.

Not a single Arena was ever deployed.

Do not tell this to me, go to self-consolate with another person. I don't mind thought. Check the T-80 vid BTW.

Nonsense.

The fact that Drozd, Arena and others passed all tests and were operational and for export, for decades, while Trophy was in the very developement till now, is laughable. Throphy is nosense.

All Russian tanks have either Kontakt-1 or Kontakt-5 ERA which is not effective vs. tandem warheads. Also they dont cover tank completely, there are many gaps. Shtora has limited angles and is not effective vs modern missiles thats why Indians rejected it

K-1 is old and currently rare, K-5 was produced in big quantities and it's the main ERA in Post sov countries. A new ERA "Relikt" is produced. It is more effective against tandem warheads, and interchangeable with K-5. Equipped in new prod T-90s and progressively on older tanks, T-72 and T-80.

ERA covers all vulnerable parts. Russian tanks (especially T-90) have a very low silluete, and it's difficult to impact on an unprotected part. It's not like the bulky Merkava, wich is bulky and easy to hit, like they did in 2006.

Shtora is effective against all ATGM, not against manual unguided ones, for wich there is ERA and armor alone. Indian T-90 is export and Shtora is not featured in that version. Watch the vid:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself

 

[500]

Equipped and developed in 1978

deployed in 1983 scrapped in late 80-es.

Do not tell this to me, go to self-consolate with another person. I don't mind thought. Check the T-80 vid BTW.

You cant bring any source to support ur claims.

The fact that Drozd, Arena and others passed all tests and were operational and for export, for decades, while Trophy was in the very developement till now, is laughable. Throphy is nosense.

Arena was never deployed Drozd (which lacks 360 grad potection and spreads huge amounts of schapnel) was deployed for several years on outdated tanks. Today Trophy is only operational APS.

K-1 is old and currently rare, K-5 was produced in big quantities and it's the main ERA in Post sov countries. A new ERA "Relikt" is produced. It is more effective against tandem warheads, and interchangeable with K-5. Equipped in new prod T-90s and progressively on older tanks, T-72 and T-80.

New T-90A tanks still have K-5.

ERA covers all vulnerable parts.

I posted a pic how "well" its covered. It does not cover lower part of front, most of the side, rear.

 

[mnd]

deployed in 1983 scrapped in late 80-es.

You cant bring any source to support ur claims.

I've said it many times, and will repeat it all times you want to. You really do not care about sources when talking yourself, better read the responses to your fella, Archdemon, where it was explained how Throphy did nothing against tandem warheads, with real info, and he, just typing garbage.

Arena was never deployed Drozd (which lacks 360 grad potection and spreads huge amounts of schapnel) was deployed for several years on outdated tanks. Today Trophy is only operational APS.

Arena, fully operational in T-80, watch the vid. Drozd was developed in 1978, and the fact that is comparable to Trophy is laughable. If you compare bad, you have Drozd-2, Drozd-M, Arena and Zaslon, all operational and for sale for who wants to for almost 2 decades.

New T-90A tanks still have K-5.

I posted a pic how "well" its covered. It does not cover lower part of front, most of the side, rear.

I referred to T-90M, wich is being produced and there is an upgrade pogram of earlier T-90 to this level. New ERA Relikt and Turret among others.

Yeah, sure. The tank has a low profile, and good luck hitting that "holes"

T-90 with Relikt:

 

[Archdemon]

deployed in 1983 scrapped in late 80-es.


You cant bring any source to support ur claims.


Arena was never deployed Drozd (which lacks 360 grad potection and spreads huge amounts of schapnel) was deployed for several years on outdated tanks. Today Trophy is only operational APS.


New T-90A tanks still have K-5.


I posted a pic how "well" its covered. It does not cover lower part of front, most of the side, rear.

It is counterproductive to argue with Lidsky and alike, he is obviously an idiot in denial with a skull so thick that leave little room for brain, even tandem warhead wouldn't penetrate his skull

 

[mnd]

^ ..........

 

[500]

I've said it many times, and will repeat it all times you want to. You really do not care about sources when talking yourself, better read the responses to your fella,

WIthout any sources.

Archdemon, where it was explained how Throphy did nothing against tandem warheads, with real info, and he, just typing garbage.

You only showed that you dont understand the difference between ERA and APS.

Arena, fully operational in T-80, watch the vid.

Your video is not working. T-80 with arena was only on exhibition.

Drozd was developed in 1978, and the fact that is comparable to Trophy is laughable. If you compare bad, you have Drozd-2, Drozd-M, Arena and Zaslon, all operational and for sale for who wants to for almost 2 decades.

No one bought and no one operates it.

I referred to T-90M, wich is being produced

Its not.

T-90 with Relikt:

This is T-90M which is not deployed. Currently are deployed only T-90 and T-90A. Both have huge holes in ERA coverage, dont protect against tandem warheads and dont have any APS.

And plz learn how to post links for gods sake. This is a pic you wanted to post:

 

[mnd]

WIthout any sources.

I've explained you, I provided videos and whatever, and you keep ignoring, and your arguments about how APS work, and tanks in general are funny, self elaborated without basic knowledge, and unsourced... You have mentioned real info zero times to support your "theories"

You only showed that you dont understand the difference between ERA and APS.

If you know jack sh*t, stop responding in this matter. And read
my responses, for God's sake, look my last response to Archdemon (in russian).

Your video is not working. T-80 with arena was only on exhibition.

No one bought and no one operates it.

Arena was tested and developed to full operational status (like Throphy today) even if not widely deployed, Your Throphy vid here is also an "exhibition" by the way. As of export, you don't know (and don't understand) that all those APS are in full operational status, thought not deployed, and that if the system is on export, it meets all operational requirements, exactly the same as this Throphy.

This is T-90M which is not deployed. Currently are deployed only T-90 and T-90A. Both have huge holes in ERA coverage, dont protect against tandem warheads and dont have any APS.

Again an ignorant statement. T-90 has a low silluete, ERA covers all important parts, anothers are not possible to hit, ERA is not deployed in all parts, (though could) but on wich ballistic tests show they are the most probable to hit. T-90s combination of ERA and Shtora system does not make APS rentable, thought it is ready and it can be installed at any moment. As of tandem warheads, A tank with ERA offers better protection than a tank with only APS (whose protection is 0%).

As of the pic, that was a regular T-90 with Relikt (T-90M has a new turret). Relikt looks more "single piece" than K-5.

 

[500]

I've explained you, I provided videos and whatever, and you keep ignoring, and your arguments about how APS work, and tanks in general are funny, self elaborated without basic knowledge, and unsourced... You have mentioned real info zero times to support your "theories"

I cant provide a link for something that does not exist. You claim that Arena and Drozd-2 were deployed so bring a link.

If you know jack sh*t, stop responding in this matter. And read
my responses, for God's sake, look my last response to Archdemon (in russian).

I checked thats why i am saying. You talk nonsense.

Arena was tested and developed to full operational status (like Throphy today) even if not widely deployed, Your Throphy vid here is also an "exhibition" by the way. As of export, you don't know (and don't understand) that all those APS are in full operational status, thought not deployed, and that if the system is on export, it meets all operational requirements, exactly the same as this Throphy.

Arena was never deployed. Just like Black Eagle, Su-37, Su-47, Mig.144 and other wonders. I can show their videos too

Again an ignorant statement. T-90 has a low silluete, ERA covers all important parts, anothers are not possible to hit, ERA is not deployed in all parts, (though could) but on wich ballistic tests show they are the most probable to hit. T-90s combination of ERA and Shtora system does not make APS rentable, thought it is ready and it can be installed at any moment. As of tandem warheads, A tank with ERA offers better protection than a tank with only APS (whose protection is 0%).

I repeat most of the side (including turret side), lower hull, mantlet area of turret, periscopre area of froont hull, juncture between turret and hull, rear, all those are weak areas which are not covered by ERA (and K-5 does not protect against tandem warheads anyway). Thats why APS is needed, to protect all vulnerable parts.

As of the pic, that was a regular T-90 with Relikt (T-90M has a new turret). Relikt looks more "single piece" than K-5.

This is one of T-90M prototypes. Since T-90M is not introduced yet no one knows how it will be.

 

[mnd]

]I cant provide a link for something that does not exist. You claim that Arena and Drozd-2 were deployed so bring a link.

I've explained that zillions of times, showd you videos the same as Throphy's, but you still. It's just that Israel magically has the world's first and only APS, no matter if the concept is old and was deployed on old T-55. And explain how APS protects against tandem warheads, your arguments are of an ignorant and you never mentioned any real information.

I checked thats why i am saying. You talk nonsense

.
You say that to me? and you've missed this what I posted, BTW:

"Two projectiles are fired, first a light one, and then closely the main charge. The "imitator" target aproximates to the tank, and it is detected by the APS system, wich categorizes it as an anti-tank rocket. The APS fires an interceptor or a blast against the imitator. Since this systems are designed in order to reduce collateral damages, the area wich the system destroys is small, and inssufficient to destroy the second main target, wich follows very closely and impacts."

More here:Амперсанд — Википедия

Arena was never deployed. Just like Black Eagle, Su-37, Su-47, Mig.144 and other wonders. I can show their videos too

The first one I explained. The rest, neither of those systems mentioned were for production, but test plattforms. I could say the same with YF-23, F-15SE and the rest. I broughta very good point for you to understand, about how system developement and arms market works, but you failed to understand it.

I repeat most of the side (including turret side), lower hull, mantlet area of turret, periscopre area of froont hull, juncture between turret and hull, rear, all those are weak areas which are not covered by ERA (and K-5 does not protect against tandem warheads anyway). Thats why APS is needed, to protect all vulnerable parts.

Yeah, and the gun, the optics and the wheels are not covered either. I know you know little about this, but atleast try to think. This is from a ballistic test on T-90 and T-80, look at where the projectiles impacted, you should now know on what criteria ERA (and armor) are placed.
: T-80U and T-90 Trials 20.10.99

The only vulnerability of ERA are tandem warhs, new ERA and armor improve protection. The rest, ERA, Shtora and armor are effective. APS will never protect against tandem warhs, and for the rest it is a waste of resources, except if you fight limited insurgents, for what Throphy is designed for.

This is one of T-90M prototypes. Since T-90M is not introduced yet no one knows how it will be.

That is simply a regular T-90 fitted with Relikt. T-90M were pics from an exhibition, thought a few years old, and what did they shown was only an old T-90 with a new turret, fitted with old ERA because it was not ready at that time. And current russian arms program provides funding for T-90M and T-90 upgrades.

 

[500]

I've explained that zillions of times, showd you videos the same as Throphy's, but you still. It's just that Israel magically has the world's first and only APS, no matter if the concept is old and was deployed on old T-55.

* Trophy is worlds first deployed APS which gives 360 protection.
* Trophy is worlds first deployed APS which is deployed on MBT (T-55 is not MBT).
* Trophy is worlds first deployed APS which has minimal collateral damage (MEFP launched from slewing launcher, instead of huge 107-mm shrapnel round launched by Drozd).
* Trophy is only operational APS in the world today.

And explain how APS protects against tandem warheads, your arguments are of an ignorant and you never mentioned any real information.

Simle: Multiple Explosively Formed Elements hit missile and destroy both warheads.

You say that to me? and you've missed this what I posted, BTW:

"Two projectiles are fired, first a light one, and then closely the main charge. The "imitator" target aproximates to the tank, and it is detected by the APS system, wich categorizes it as an anti-tank rocket. The APS fires an interceptor or a blast against the imitator. Since this systems are designed in order to reduce collateral damages, the area wich the system destroys is small, and inssufficient to destroy the second main target, wich follows very closely and impacts."

More here:Амперсанд — Википедия

LOL. This is not tandem. Tandem means two warheasds in one missile. You dont understand what is tandem at all. And Trophy can destoy two targets simultaneously too.

The first one I explained. The rest, neither of those systems mentioned were for production, but test plattforms. I could say the same with YF-23, F-15SE and the rest. I broughta very good point for you to understand, about how system developement and arms market works, but you failed to understand it.

F-15SE is being marketed already. But its not ready still.

Yeah, and the gun, the optics and the wheels are not covered either. I know you know little about this, but atleast try to think. This is from a ballistic test on T-90 and T-80, look at where the projectiles impacted, you should now know on what criteria ERA (and armor) are placed.
: T-80U and T-90 Trials 20.10.99

As u can see RPG-29 penetrated front of T-90 3 times. So it could esasily penetrate the sides and rear of T-90. Both Hezbollah and Hamas have RPG-29. Thats why we need APS.

That is simply a regular T-90 fitted with Relikt. T-90M were pics from an exhibition, thought a few years old, and what did they shown was only an old T-90 with a new turret, fitted with old ERA because it was not ready at that time. And current russian arms program provides funding for T-90M and T-90 upgrades.

T-90M today is only a concept. No one knows how it will be in real if at all.

 

[mnd]

*

Trophy is worlds first deployed APS which gives 360 protection.
* Trophy is worlds first deployed APS which is deployed on MBT (T-55 is not MBT).
* Trophy is worlds first deployed APS which has minimal collateral damage (MEFP launched from slewing launcher, instead of huge 107-mm shrapnel round launched by Drozd).
* Trophy is only operational APS in the world today.

-Drozd 2, M and Arenal have all 360 area protection.
-And the diference is? none from technical point of view. Arena was on T-80, BTW.
-Drozd was old, Arena has the same reduced collateral damage as Throphy. Not a unique feature.
-If operational in the sense of term means fully developed and available for service, then it's not the only one by 2 decades. The fact that Drozd is no longer in production and Arena is little deployed does not mean they are not operational, nor are Drozd-2 and others made for export.

Simle: Multiple Explosively Formed Elements hit missile and destroy both warheads.

LOL. This is not tandem. Tandem means two warheasds in one missile. You dont understand what is tandem at all. And Trophy can destoy two targets simultaneously too.

Tandem in all this context meant 2 projectiles from 1 launcher, and the term was applied to RPG-29/30 as we all knew (and probably you too) If you really missunderstood then we have nothing to argue here. Arena could also destroy many targets simoultainously, but destruction of 2 projectiles wich follow the same trajectory and at almost the same time is not possible, as my post explained.

F-15SE is being marketed already. But its not ready still.

Drozd-M and others the same, but the diference is that they are fully operational. If the F-15SE was fully ready but not sold, would it mean that it's not at operational level and not ready/developed? Of course it is, and that was my whole point about those APS.

As u can see RPG-29 penetrated front of T-90 3 times. So it could esasily penetrate the sides and rear of T-90. Both Hezbollah and Hamas have RPG-29. Thats why we need APS.

Apart from RPG-29, wich was 3/5. BTW, all the rest hardly could penetrate even the stripped target, and that test was 10 year old, the test was made to improve protection. Tandem warhs have special characteristics, traditional ATGMs could not penetrate. The point is aceptable damage, not invincibility. What destroyed Merkava's in that war were really wire and laser guided ATGMs as Kornet-E, throught Syria and Iran, rpg-29, very few of them.

T-90M today is only a concept. No one knows how it will be in real if at all.

Not really, just a new turret, gun and other details. It was exhibited some time ago. The pic was just a T-90 with Relikt.