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Fifth Generation Fighter Jet Comparisons

however in a computer simulation conducted by RAND corp the F-35 lost to SU-35BM fighters


Dont know about that, but F-35 is second only to F-22 IMO, these two are the only operational aircraft at the moment. After some years who knows?
 
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only F-22 and F-35 are the true 5th gen fighter... dont know what the hell are all other unfinished 5th gen plane doing here...
 
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And am willing to bet you did not look at the details of that report.

quite frankly there have been other reports regarding the F-35's performance the F-22 is far more capable the F-35 cannot even supercruise i believe
 
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wrong rating
like mig project Mikoyan LMFS already failed

Nopez, that was just in design phase and Russian govt never showed any interest in that. But a low cost single engined stealth aircraft has a large export potential, it may make a comeback.
 
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quite frankly there have been other reports regarding the F-35's performance the F-22 is far more capable the F-35 cannot even supercruise i believe
The F-22 is a dedicated air fighter. The F-35 is a 'jack-of-all-trades'. Here is something most people do not understand: There is NOTHING wrong with being a 'jack-of-all-trades'. What make the F-35 a better 'jack-of-all-trades' than all other past 'jack-of-all-trades' aircrafts is that the standards for all those trades are higher with the F-35. For example, if there is a need for being low radar observable, the F-35 can attack with internal weapons load only. No need for that feature? Then the F-35 can increase its lethality with external weapons load. Past 'jack-of-all-trades' aircrafts cannot do that. The list of trades that the F-35 can do better than other 'jack-of-all-trades' is considerable. But it is inappropriate to compare the F-22 against the F-35.
 
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The F-22 is a dedicated air fighter. The F-35 is a 'jack-of-all-trades'. Here is something most people do not understand: There is NOTHING wrong with being a 'jack-of-all-trades'. What make the F-35 a better 'jack-of-all-trades' than all other past 'jack-of-all-trades' aircrafts is that the standards for all those trades are higher with the F-35. For example, if there is a need for being low radar observable, the F-35 can attack with internal weapons load only. No need for that feature? Then the F-35 can increase its lethality with external weapons load. Past 'jack-of-all-trades' aircrafts cannot do that. The list of trades that the F-35 can do better than other 'jack-of-all-trades' is considerable. But it is inappropriate to compare the F-22 against the F-35.

There is no denying the lethality and flexibility of a F-35. What I was trying to suggest is that there are certain elements which analysts believe to be necessary for a plane to be a 5th Gen aircraft which has been compromised on the F-35. That doesnot mean it's not a lethal aircraft. F-22, J-20 and T-50 are a whole different category of aircraft. Only the future J-xx series and the conceptualized AMCA would fall in the category of F-35. But till they see the light of day, F-35 will rule in the Mid weight category.
 
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What I was trying to suggest is that there are certain elements which analysts believe to be necessary for a plane to be a 5th Gen aircraft which has been compromised on the F-35. That doesnot mean it's not a lethal aircraft. F-22, J-20 and T-50 are a whole different category of aircraft. Only the future J-xx series and the conceptualized AMCA would fall in the category of F-35. But till they see the light of day, F-35 will rule in the Mid weight category.


like Gambit said, different roles buddy.
don’t confuse the features of a 5th Gen Air superiority fighter with a Multirole.
Americans could have made yet another F-22 clone, but they didn’t, they looked at hornets, harriers and F-16s etc and made a single plane to offer all the features and roles of those planes far better.

Defining a “true” 5th Gen is not a Physics Universal Law, I might include one feature (say super cruise) as a primary “must have “ for a 5th generation plane but someone might say it’s the stealth, very small radar signature, advanced radar/ avionics and the weapons system (internal bays etc) that defines it.

I will quote the comment from the video earlier
The F-35 avionics include the AN/APG-81 X-band AESA, EO DAS, EOTS, IEWS, CNI, HMDS, MADL, UHF, SATCOM, H.T. Antenna, Y.T. Antenna, T.R. Antenna, L band Antenna, & GPS Block IIF or Block III Antenna. The F-35 have all 360 degrees coverage and has all stealth aspect. The F-35 is completely invisible. The F-35's EO DAS firing AIM-120D, MBDA Meteor, AIM-9X Block 2, Python 5, & AIM-132 would blast its adversaries out in the sky before they even know it is there.




If F35 is hard to see and get detected, can out shoot and see further and accomplishes its role then its done its intended job that would have required a mix of all the planes it has replaced. If I had this plane under my command and I got what I needed from it then I really wont loose any sleep if lacking the air superiority features means that “the self appointed 5th Generation nomination club” refuses to recognize it as a 5th Generation plane.
 
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the F-35 and F-22 are the only 2 true 5th gen fighters however the Russians are close with they're PAK FA which will enter service in 2015 while the Chinese just tested there prototype our AMCA is still on paper but the design will be frozen soon and full funding will start after that

what i can say for sure is 2017 will be a big year in aviation as well as for many air forces
 
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the F-35 and F-22 are the only 2 true 5th gen fighters however the Russians are close with they're PAK FA which will enter service in 2015 while the Chinese just tested there prototype our AMCA is still on paper but the design will be frozen soon and full funding will start after that

what i can say for sure is 2017 will be a big year in aviation as well as for many air forces

indeed,

I cant comment for sure as far as the year is concerned but its not too far away
I see this technology leap just like the phase from the propeller to the jet planes
 
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the Indian AMCA

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How nice. I am sure after 15 year delay (beyond scheduled time) and countless technical problems, it would remain awesome plane on paper. Then we would be running for Chinese help to fix the "engine". Can't believe after giant failure that was LCA, they are "working" on AMCA. Running before they can even walk. Are they going to buy bunch of foreign parts again and assemble them in India?
 
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How nice. I am sure after 15 year delay (beyond scheduled time) and countless technical problems, it would remain awesome plane on paper. Then we would be running for Chinese help to fix the "engine". Can't believe after giant failure that was LCA, they are "working" on AMCA. Running before they can even walk. Are they going to buy bunch of foreign parts again and assemble them in India?



Gotta keep up morale no?
 
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There is no denying the lethality and flexibility of a F-35. What I was trying to suggest is that there are certain elements which analysts believe to be necessary for a plane to be a 5th Gen aircraft which has been compromised on the F-35. That doesnot mean it's not a lethal aircraft. F-22, J-20 and T-50 are a whole different category of aircraft. Only the future J-xx series and the conceptualized AMCA would fall in the category of F-35. But till they see the light of day, F-35 will rule in the Mid weight category.
The problem here is that there is no 'committee' of any kind who sat down and produced an agreed upon criteria and standards of those criteria on what is a 'fifth generation' design.

Still...There are unofficial criteria and standards:

- Radar low observability. The design must have radar low observability as primary consideration. Since this is an aircraft, flight control surfaces are obviously necessary, so we can rule aerodynamic demands as primary consideration. The question then is how are the flight control surfaces designed and overall planformed to reduce their contributorship to the aircraft's radar cross section (RCS)? Remember, flight control surfaces are so required that they not allowed to have degrees or gradations of necessity. The B-2 does not have a vertical stabilator, so many erroneously believes that yaw axis control and stability has been eliminated from that design. Nothing could be further from the truth. Instead of vertical stabilators, the B-2 designers opted for split wing tip ailerons to effect yaw axis control and stability.

Flying wing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yaw control

Split ailerons. The top surface moves up while the lower surface moves down, to create an air brake effect.
These create their own issues of being RCS contributors. So how should we design the system to minimize the ailerons' contributorship to overall RCS?

What is the primary method of RCS control? Angled faceting, ala F-117, or curvatures, like the B-2, F-22, and F-35? We can look at these aircrafts and see they are blends of both with one method as primary. The F-117's is obviously 'angled faceting'. The latter designs' are obviously curvatures. Flight control surfaces, the cockpit area, and the engines are major contributors to the final RCS, then comes minor ones like assorted communication antennas or air data sensor ports. How are they designed to reduce their contributorship despite their necessity for flight?

A fighter aircraft cannot carry as large and powerful a radar system as an AWACS. The acceptable radar range for the majority of fighter aircraft class is 150-200 km. At that distance, a clean F-16 has an RCS of about 1 meter square. Anything below that figure, at 150-200 km distance, and an aircraft can be reasonably qualified as 'stealthy'.

- Weapons. The days of 'stealth' weapons are not yet here. So we must reduce weapons contributorship to overall RCS somehow. The best method is to enclose them and so far we do that by carrying them in the fuselage. There are proposals for a 'stealth' pod to enclose missiles and bombs but they remains to be seen. For now, any so-called 'fifth generation' aircraft will have to internalize its weapons with external carry as an option when the need for low radar observability in an arena is reduced.

- Sensors. The most powerful and versatile sensor is the radar. The more advanced form is the electronic scanning array (ESA). Under the ESA type are the passive (P) and active (A) designs with the AESA the clear superior by wide margins, especially in the versatility area. Any so-called 'fifth generation' aircraft must at least have the PESA. The US is not settling for the PESA. We want and will have AESA radars, even in the older aircrafts. Infrared (IR) sensor is no longer an option like before but a necessity.

- Network capable. The days of sharing what one see in one's area of view and responsibility via voice only is over. Any so-called 'fifth generation' aircraft must be able to share raw data with each other and be able to process those data into a coherent situational picture for the pilot.

- Inherent instability. Being aerodynamic does not automatically equate to stability, which is the quality of an aircraft being able to return to level attitude. Inherent instability allow the aircraft to have a higher command response rate which in turn equal to higher maneuverability. This require the more complex fly-by-wire flight control system (FBW-FLCS). The concept is proven since the F-16A/B models with an analog FLCS avionics. Today's FLCS is entirely digital with correspondingly much more complex flight control laws software.

If you believe these major items are somehow 'compromised' in designing the F-35, I would like to see how.
 
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How nice. I am sure after 15 year delay (beyond scheduled time) and countless technical problems, it would remain awesome plane on paper. Then we would be running for Chinese help to fix the "engine". Can't believe after giant failure that was LCA, they are "working" on AMCA. Running before they can even walk. Are they going to buy bunch of foreign parts again and assemble them in India?

dude LCA delay was because of problems in the 90's economic problems in the early 90's resulted in funding being cut for a while then when full funding started we were getting back on track however after the nuclear tests in 98 a technology embargo screwed us over as we had no back up plan, so poor planning is 1 fault but first flight was in 2001 IOC in 2011 if that time is considered it really only took 10 year

France is helping us with Kaveri MK2 engine which will be used AMCA and as of right now LCAMK1 is initially ready after some final validation tests it will be ready for FOC next year, adding on the IAF has ordered 48MK1 aircraft because it does not meet they're current requirements that is why the LCA MK2 which will be a 4.5 gen fighter with 5th gen elements is being developed that will fly in 2014 and enter production in 2017

we know LCA took a long time but before LCA we only had made fighters that were 2nd gen like Marut and Ajeet, then we started on a 4th gen fighter, the LCA was the project to start the aerospace industry in India i am sure ADA and DRDO scientists will learn from past mistakes and not commit them again on the AMCA

relax bro LCAMK2 and AMCA will be real indigenous beasts
 
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