Fall of Dacca

[roadrunner]

Once again, a failed postulation by you.


Note: East Pakistan had at least 90% Bengalis and so it is 90% of the figures you have mentioned.

Now, West Pakistan population was composed of what? One community?

Therefore, the Bengalis as a group was a huge majority! HUGE!

In fact, they were the real face of Pakistan population wise as a single community, if that is what is the comparison bottomline!

Depends how you look at it. We're talking about the official language being Urdu or Bengali. West Pakistan was prepared to have Urdu as the official language. East Pakistan was not. So West versus East Pakistan, was not a case of majority-minority, more a case of equal populations wanting perhaps different things..But no referendum was carried out, except for in the 1946 elections, and they didn't seem to mind Urdu then. Most likely, one of the Bengali nationalists just stirred them up after partition, and said "you Bengalis are superior people, with a superior language, brother Salim has said you have had a Nobel literature prize winning Bengali therefore we must be more intelligent and superior to other peoples. We must make Bengali the official language since we are so good at it, the whole world salutes our language, our culture".

 

[salman nedian]

RR,
Please do not use words like “Bharti Mahajirs” b/c we are Pakistanis(I never looked my self as a Mahajir) although there is no discrimination in Pakistan with Mahajirs but your comments shows that Mahajirs are treated badly in Pakistan which is not the actual case.

 

[roadrunner]

RR,
Please do not use words like “Bharti Mahajirs” b/c we are Pakistanis(I never looked my self as a Mahajir) although there is no discrimination in Pakistan with Mahajirs but your comments shows that Mahajirs are treated badly in Pakistan which is not the actual case.

This has gone far enough. If you could understand the point I was trying to make there (a very simple point that it was the "Muhajirs from Bharat" (= Bharati Muhajirs) that brought over the rich private investment), then you would realize there is no other way to express this. Give me an alternative choice of wording. It is necessary to use this wording because THE GROUP NEEDS TO BE IDENTIFIED! DUHHHHHHHHH

I await an alternative choice of wording to be used in my statement

"This isn't true. The "power barons" were the Bharati Muhajirs that moved to Karachi at Partition. They even took the capital to Karachi such was their influence. The Bharati Muhajirs willingly chose West Pakistan over East Pakistan. Whether they wanted to share power or wealth with East Pakistan was up to them. They did, incidentally, but there were so many factors governing the spread of wealth in East and West Pakistan, that this analysis he's made here is too simplistic."

Here is an alternative perhaps

"This isn't true. The "power barons" were the Muhajirs from Bharat that moved to Karachi at Partition. They even took the capital to Karachi such was their influence. The Muhajirs from Bharat willingly chose West Pakistan over East Pakistan. Whether they wanted to share power or wealth with East Pakistan was up to them. They did, incidentally, but there were so many factors governing the spread of wealth in East and West Pakistan, that this analysis he's made here is too simplistic."

Alright, here's another

"This isn't true. The "power barons" were the "Pakistani Muhajirs of Indian Origin" that moved to Karachi at Partition. They even took the capital to Karachi such was their influence. The "Pakistani Muhajirs of Indian Origin" willingly chose West Pakistan over East Pakistan. Whether they wanted to share power or wealth with East Pakistan was up to them. They did, incidentally, but there were so many factors governing the spread of wealth in East and West Pakistan, that this analysis he's made here is too simplistic."

Now if you think up more ways of writing it, do tell me.

This nonsense is almost as bad as those nationalist Afghans that demand to be called Pakhtun instead of Pathan. Or those naturalized Afghans who are called Afghans instead of Pakistanis. They're just means of identification. Bharati Muhajir is just a term of identification also in this case. Should one now derail threads when someone refers to Afghanis as Afghans (since this might cause confusion with the Afghan ethnic group)? Let's stop being so pedantic and try and focus on the thread in hand. Not derail topics as Salim has so successfully done here.

But for now I think I'll stick with "Bharati Muhajirs". If it offends your sensibilities that you feel I'm calling them Indian, then that's your problem. It's not my intention, just your interpretation. That makes it your problem. So you know where to put it

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Depends how you look at it. We're talking about the official language being Urdu or Bengali. West Pakistan was prepared to have Urdu as the official language. East Pakistan was not. So West versus East Pakistan, was not a case of majority-minority, more a case of equal populations wanting perhaps different things..But no referendum was carried out, except for in the 1946 elections, and they didn't seem to mind Urdu then. Most likely, one of the Bengali nationalists just stirred them up after partition, and said "you Bengalis are superior people, with a superior language, brother Salim has said you have had a Nobel literature prize winning Bengali therefore we must be more intelligent and superior to other peoples. We must make Bengali the official language since we are so good at it, the whole world salutes our language, our culture".

Again you are making a mistake.

Brother Salim is no one to state anything. It is the world which stated and acknowledges that we, the Bengalis, not only have one Nobel Prize winner, but THREE - Rabindranath Tagore, Amratya Sen and Md Yunus!!!

And the Bengali population is...........?

So, old chap. say what you want, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

And as per you we are illiterates! Bah, humbug!

 

[roadrunner]

Again you are making a mistake.

Brother Salim is no one to state anything. It is the world which stated and acknowledges that we, the Bengalis, not only have one Nobel Prize winner, but THREE - Rabindranath Tagore, Amratya Sen and Md Yunus!!!

And the Bengali population is...........?

So, old chap. say what you want, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

And as per you we are illiterates! Bah, humbug!

Brother Salim appears to have made an arithmetic error in count of Bengali Nobel Prize Winners..Tagori was one, Sen I guess was another (though the Economics Prize was not one of the original 5 disciplines), but Yunus won the Nobel Peace Prize, which unfortunately is not a sign of intelligence to boost your ego, but more of a social prestige award. I will put the number of Bengalis Nobel Prize winners at 2, plus one Nobel Peace Prize winner.

Not sure why you're looking at population figures here. The Bengali population (West and East) is 240 million (nearly twice the size of Pakistan). So what's your point?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Are you saying that there is no problem is swat or swat is not a part of nwfp? Is that not a "problem" area which was shown as the reason for emergency in the entire Pakistan?

"Traced back" -means only connecting the dots and not the same problem.
One can say that the latest technological development can be traced back to newton's laws, and he would be dead right. It only meant that the deals which were and had to be made to pacify then, solved that problem but in the process led to this current problem.

What I am saying is that your implication that the problems in Swat and FATA are connected to the referendum in 1947 is flawed. Why not connect the dots all the way to Ghauri's invasion? The Tribal areas had always been autonomous and became independent in 1947, what makes you think that the same process of inking agreements with the Tribal maliks to join Pakistan would not have been followed?

You didnt get what I said about NWFP partition vote? Before the vote itself, it was told that the vote doesnt count. It was such a vote and because it was a vote which was done only for academic purpose, Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan asked people to boycott it. Understand the scenario it placed Khan in. He had a thumping majority in the legislature of NWFP in the elections of 1946. Everybody knows that Khan did not want to join Pakistan and wanted to join India, but yet the decision whether NWFP would be a part of Pakistan was to be decided not on the basis of vote in NWFP but on the basis of vote in punjab and sindh. Now Khan knew Punjab and Sindh's vote would be for Pakistan, so it meant though he did not want NWFP to join Pakistan, it would have to join because of geographical contiguity. It was under these conditions which led to his boycott, he was in a catch-22 situation. The three results were
1) go and campaign against partition and say he won: the partition would happen and at the end NWFP would have to join Pakistan. Now because they voted against Pakistan, they were sure to get step motherly treatment from Pakistan.
2) boycott: since nwfp's vote doesnt matter anyway, let ML win so that the step motherly treatment is avoided.
3)he participated and lost the election: lost case anyway

See his three results, which was the option he should take and why? Be in his position and decide, you know it was a case for him "tails you lose, heads I win". So he took the only face-saving option of boycotting.

When you are told before hand that your vote doesnt count, does any result in that election count?

From a technical political POV you may be correct, that the choices were limited - but from the POV of the people of the NWFP, and at the end of the day it is the people's opinion that counts, that argument is flawed. 56% of the electorate came out ot vote and the overwhelming majority of them voted for Pakistan. Of the remainder, it cannot be shown that every single one would have voted against Pakistan just because KAGK did not like the idea.

With respect to KAGK's popularity, he ran on a very strong social platform, and you would have to prove that the overwhelming majority of his support arose not from that strong social platform, but simply an opposition to the idea of Pakistan.

 

[Spring Onion]

Jafri sahab is my Mentor so i can not comment on his article.

and i had this article much before its publication but dint want to post befor it was published.

 

[Spring Onion]

What I am saying is that your implication that the problems in Swat and FATA are connected to the referendum in 1947 is flawed. Why not connect the dots all the way to Ghauri's invasion? The Tribal areas had always been autonomous and became independent in 1947, what makes you think that the same process of inking agreements with the Tribal maliks to join Pakistan would not have been followed?

From a technical political POV you may be correct, that the choices were limited - but from the POV of the people of the NWFP, and at the end of the day it is the people's opinion that counts, that argument is flawed. 56% of the electorate came out ot vote and the overwhelming majority of them voted for Pakistan. Of the remainder, it cannot be shown that every single one would have voted against Pakistan just because KAGK did not like the idea.

Agno dear this bhangra and other indians are habit of commenting on FATA and NWFP and us without knoiwng anything.

even if choice was limited the people of these are not the ones who could have been tamed or forced to come vote.
and Pakistan at that time even did not have resources to force them.
All these areas were always even under Britishers were autonomous.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

But Musharraf was keen to change this heritage inherited from the British!

It is unfortunate that the FATA and other chaps are hell bent in maintaining their independent status and beyond the realm of the country.

All effort must be done to ensure that Musharraf's plans are implemented even if those of these areas are against it.

The chaps of FATA and other such areas are being rebellious unnecessarily and causing all the confusion.

One wonders what can be done to ensure they understand they are a part of Pakistan and not a country by themselves!

 

[Spring Onion]

But Musharraf was keen to change this heritage inherited from the British!

It is unfortunate that the FATA and other chaps are hell bent in maintaining their independent status and beyond the realm of the country.

All effort must be done to ensure that Musharraf's plans are implemented even if those of these areas are against it.

The chaps of FATA and other such areas are being rebellious unnecessarily and causing all the confusion.

One wonders what can be done to ensure they understand they are a part of Pakistan and not a country by themselves!

You guys never refrain from your tactics.

Discuss it in the proper section.
first bhnagra brought the off topic rant and now you .

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Care to be more fair?

 

[Spring Onion]

Care to be more fair?

Brigadier Sir you have much more brain than i have and you know yourself much better than anyone.

Isnt it

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Trying to get tangential?

 

[roadrunner]

Brigadier Sir you have much more brain than i have and you know yourself much better than anyone.

Isnt it

This is of course because Salim is Bengali, and since Tagori was a Bengali, this must mean Salim is more intelligent than anyone else, since he is of the same ethnic group as Tagori

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

There is nothing called Tagori.

Indicates that you are a total illiterate and lacking general knowledge.

One wonders what education is available in the area you come from!

Having been exposed of your biases including insulting your own countrymen like the Mohajirs, you fall back in being insulting and crass.

It shows your class!

Please desist from being crude, even if it your forte, since this forum is for decent people as I take it from the class of friends I have here who are Moderators!