What's new

Failed ideology = Idiot-ology

Status
Not open for further replies.

FaujHistorian

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Apr 20, 2011
Messages
12,272
Reaction score
43
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
So what is an ideology?

It a system of ideas and ideals, esp. one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy (google defs)

Pakistanis have claimed to follow an ideology since 1949 (objective resolution days).

Many in Pakistan would jump on this by saying "Islam is the ideology for Pakistan".
--- In fact many in India would jump on this by saying "Islam is the ideology for Pakistan". Strange! but true.

The question is what do we really hold dear when we thing about our country. here is a quick list based on the regions.

1. Karachi (Sindh Urban): Majority says Islam is ideology but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow Mohajir/Bihar philosophy that borders ethnic fascism by the likes of Murda wa Qatil movement (MQM) and other Sindhi and Pashtun qatil movements.

2. Sindh Rural: Majority says Islam is ideology but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow Sindhi ethnic chauvinism.

3. Balochistan: Majority says Islam is ideology, but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow balochi ethnic chauvinism.

4. Southern Punjab: Majority says Islam is ideology, but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow sunni vs. Shia tribal chauvinism such as lashkre Jangvi goons etc.

5. Central Punjab: Majority says Islam is ideology, but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow sunni tribal chauvinism. examples are clear when we have failed to protect our minorties from getting bombed and butchered.

Same thing with northren Punjab, KP, and FATA.


When people see that Islamist Ideology has failed, they refuse to accept it and demand more Islamisation.

But we look around in other countries like Afghnistan Iran Saudi Syria Lebanon and it clearly shows that Islamism cannot unite people in a diverse country.

in fact Islamism as ideology further splits an already bifurcated society.

Say in Lebanese society, people had groups along relgious lines (Christian vs. Muslim).

Instead of kicking out relgiion from the state, they brought more relgion and guess what now Muslims are further split along Shai Sunnia and thus butchering each other.


Same thing in Syria, Same in Bharain, same in Yemen and the list goes on

Pakistanis refuse to see the realty

and continue to ignore the need of replacing the failed idiot-olgy with a more inclusive non-Islamist Pakistan first system of idea.

And

thus we continue to experience horrors of suicide bombings, intolerance, and death and destruction years after years after years.

It is like a man has severe stomach problems, ulcers and what not, and still keeps on drinking water from a cesspool filled with all kinds of bugs.


Pakistani intellectual refuses to filter the disease infested ideology and thus we have turned Pakistan into a sick nation.


I hope 2014 brings some sense in our heads

and

we wake up and

rid ourselves from Islamist and ethnic idiotologies.


Amen


p.s. I appeal to Indian posters to contribute positively and not add any kind of $hit. As that only encourages $hit shoveler followers of the likes of ZH. Thank you.
 
Actually who ever says Pakistanis follow Islamic ideology is dead wrong, we just follow our ethnic/tribal ideology why blame something that is not even followed...
 
I think common religion is what mostly unite ethnically diverse nation so little Islamism is required in Pakistan to keep it united right???
 
Actually who ever says Pakistanis follow Islamic ideology is dead wrong, we just follow our ethnic/tribal ideology why blame something that is not even followed...

Well said.

This is what I am saying:


Majority says Islam is ideology but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented.


So we go to Plan B
and in practice we follow Mohajir/Bihar philosophy that borders ethnic fascism

If Islamic ideology was practical, it would have been accepted and implemented.

Remember Apple doesn't have to come beg you to buy an Iphone. (or Google doesn't have to come beg you to buy an Android phone)

You buy (an apple or Android) device because YOU know it will work.

Islamic ideology doesn't work in post-Industrialized world. So the people lacking good Islamic choices, fall back to ethnic ideologies.

No matter how hard one tries to convince the people.

People have reject it over and over and over, not just in Pakistan but in several other countries.


peace

I think common religion is what mostly unite ethnically diverse nation so little Islamism is required in Pakistan to keep it united right???

Even though I'd love to agree with you

but reality is quite the opposite.

peace
 
@FaujHistorian, it has less to do with practicality of Islamic Ideology and more to do with the hipocratic selfishness that has been promoted in our society. We claim to want to see Pakistan prosperous yet do tax chori and haramkhori, we claim to like justice for all yet usurp others right when given a chance, we like our sisters to be treated with respect yet ogle at others'... The list can go on and on... A lot of it is even glorified in the name of modernism, realism and pragmatism as twisted as it may sound... As for Islamic ideology it has the same place as Quran in our houses, kissed, wrapped in a nice cloth, put in the corner and forgotten... We need a bit of idealism and ideology back in our national thinking and the closest to acceptance is Islam.
 
Last edited:
Ideology that puts nation first above anything is the best ideology according to me.

Well said.

Hopefully the "nation FIRST" ideology means inclusivity and tolerance in a diverse society like Pakistan. Where each group is free to practice their faith without fear of persecution.


Where a Hindu can tolerate cow slaughter, and a Muslim can tolerate the sale of pork.

Where a Christian will not be offended to see Jesus not being considered biological son of God

Where a Muslim will not be offended if an Ahmadi says Mirza is the prophet.

Peace
 
So what is an ideology?

It a system of ideas and ideals, esp. one that forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy (google defs)

Pakistanis have claimed to follow an ideology since 1949 (objective resolution days).

Many in Pakistan would jump on this by saying "Islam is the ideology for Pakistan".
--- In fact many in India would jump on this by saying "Islam is the ideology for Pakistan". Strange! but true.

The question is what do we really hold dear when we thing about our country. here is a quick list based on the regions.

1. Karachi (Sindh Urban): Majority says Islam is ideology but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow Mohajir/Bihar philosophy that borders ethnic fascism by the likes of Murda wa Qatil movement (MQM) and other Sindhi and Pashtun qatil movements.

2. Sindh Rural: Majority says Islam is ideology but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow Sindhi ethnic chauvinism.

3. Balochistan: Majority says Islam is ideology, but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow balochi ethnic chauvinism.

4. Southern Punjab: Majority says Islam is ideology, but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow sunni vs. Shia tribal chauvinism such as lashkre Jangvi goons etc.

5. Central Punjab: Majority says Islam is ideology, but it has failed to get universally accepted and implemented. So we go to Plan B and in practice we follow sunni tribal chauvinism. examples are clear when we have failed to protect our minorties from getting bombed and butchered.

Same thing with northren Punjab, KP, and FATA.


When people see that Islamist Ideology has failed, they refuse to accept it and demand more Islamisation.

But we look around in other countries like Afghnistan Iran Saudi Syria Lebanon and it clearly shows that Islamism cannot unite people in a diverse country.

in fact Islamism as ideology further splits an already bifurcated society.

Say in Lebanese society, people had groups along relgious lines (Christian vs. Muslim).

Instead of kicking out relgiion from the state, they brought more relgion and guess what now Muslims are further split along Shai Sunnia and thus butchering each other.


Same thing in Syria, Same in Bharain, same in Yemen and the list goes on

Pakistanis refuse to see the realty

and continue to ignore the need of replacing the failed idiot-olgy with a more inclusive non-Islamist Pakistan first system of idea.

And

thus we continue to experience horrors of suicide bombings, intolerance, and death and destruction years after years after years.

It is like a man has severe stomach problems, ulcers and what not, and still keeps on drinking water from a cesspool filled with all kinds of bugs.


Pakistani intellectual refuses to filter the disease infested ideology and thus we have turned Pakistan into a sick nation.


I hope 2014 brings some sense in our heads

and

we wake up and

rid ourselves from Islamist and ethnic idiotologies.


Amen


p.s. I appeal to Indian posters to contribute positively and not add any kind of $hit. As that only encourages $hit shoveler followers of the likes of ZH. Thank you.
Like your analysis. Nice.

Thats where we Indians always say that 2 nation theory is and will always be a failed ideology. Nothing insulting in accepting the truth. You simply cant feel insulted when you drink petrol and someone tells you, its not for drinking and plz dont drink. You cant contest on the fact that you believing in drinking petrol and hence anyone contesting is your enemy.

As you yourself mentioned that Basing identity on Religion has failed everywhere in the world. I ask Why?

Coz civilization is built on culture, tradition, language, etc and you simply cant force them a common practice. In India we created a system where all States(cutures) were given autonomy to practice their traditions and slowly with time we mingled them thru opportunities of migration and created a diverse, pluralist society. This was done over a period of time.

Pakistan has to get back to its roots of 1947 and build a nation on Jinnah Ideology is hes the one you guyz follow. PLURALISM is the way forward and making a staunch Ilamist nation will kill this pluralism and hence the whole idea of Pakistan. My 2 cents.
 
Like your analysis. Nice.

Thats where we Indians always say that 2 nation theory is and will always be a failed ideology. Nothing insulting in accepting the truth. You simply cant feel insulted when you drink petrol and someone tells you, its not for drinking and plz dont drink. You cant contest on the fact that you believing in drinking petrol and hence anyone contesting is your enemy.

As you yourself mentioned that Basing identity on Religion has failed everywhere in the world. I ask Why?

Coz civilization is built on culture, tradition, language, etc and you simply cant force them a common practice. In India we created a system where all States(cutures) were given autonomy to practice their traditions and slowly with time we mingled them thru opportunities of migration and created a diverse, pluralist society. This was done over a period of time.

Pakistan has to get back to its roots of 1947 and build a nation on Jinnah Ideology is hes the one you guyz follow. PLURALISM is the way forward and making a staunch Ilamist nation will kill this pluralism and hence the whole idea of Pakistan. My 2 cents.


My dear bro

Please do not bring TNT in this thread.

One of the most poisonous thing an Indian can do is to inject TNT into an internal debate of Pakistan. This juvenile behavior ends up strengthening the Islamists and in turn weakening the inclusivists and tolerant groups.

I hope you realize that TNT was the result of

Congressi Propaganda: Hindu Majority provinces and Muslim Majority provinces can't live together


We discussed it at length.

This is why I respectfully say that please do not bring the topic "creation of Pakistan and India" in this thread.

It is much more complicated than blaming TNT.


Thank you,.
 
Last edited:
My dear bro

Please do not bring TNT in this thread.

I hope you realize that TNT was the result of

Congressi Propaganda: Hindu Majority provinces and Muslim Majority provinces can't live together


We discussed it at length.

This is why I respectfully say that please do not bring the topic "creation of Pakistan and India" in this thread.

It is much more complicated than blaming TNT.


Thank you,.
Dude.
Make one thing clear. I never contested Who brought the 2 nation theory. Infact to enlighten you more, it was Hindu Mahasabha (RSS) of that tym who started this idea od 2 nation theory which make Muslim Leauge apprehensive about extrimist Hindus.

I am just saying, irrespective of who started it, Pakistan unfortunately fell into the trap of 2 nation theory. I am not putting a TNT but asking you guyz to know the problem before deciding on the remedy. It was because of Hindu Mahasabha why Jinnah wanted a non extrimist, liberal, moderate Muslim nation. what we have today, Jinnah will die again if he sees his Pakistan.

Bottomline is, No matter who brought up this theory, its Pakistan who accepted it and is suffering.
 
As i always said that when the people who truly & honestly follow Islam are tiny minority now than why bend every thing for them, make new 21st century constitution where every community's rights are equally protected including Muslim minority.
 
Last edited:
modern-propaganda-poster-12.jpeg
 
@FaujHistorian, it has less to do with practicality of Islamic Ideology and more to do with the hipocratic selfishness that has been promoted in our society. We claim to want to see Pakistan prosperous yet do tax chori and haramkhori, we claim to like justice for all yet usurp others right when given a chance, we like our sisters to be treated with respect yet ogle at others'... The list can go on and on....

Well said.



We need a bit of idealism and ideology back in our national thinking and the closest to acceptance is Islam.

you are not the first one to say this bro.

But let me give you an example.


If you see a lot of accidents on a section of the road, one would easily come up with at least two reasons.


1. Drivers are bad
2. A new road with modern design needs to be added



In Pakistan we have a habit (like your post) to blame the drivers (ordinary Pakistanis). And obviously this reason has the merit.

However we must consider building new and straightened 6 lane highways and abandoning the old windy curvy 1 lane dirt roads.


Ideologies too become stale and thus rejected.


peace

..

Bottomline is, No matter who brought up this theory, its Pakistan who accepted it and is suffering.

Well said.

And this thread is a humble effort to point that out, without dragging pre-1947 politics in it.

One of the most poisonous thing an Indian can do is to inject TNT into an internal debate of Pakistan. This juvenile behavior ends up strengthening the Islamists and in turn weakening the inclusivists and tolerant groups.



Peace
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom