Factors Affecting India Pakistan Relations

[ejaz007]

I have written an article on the above subject. I would like to have opinion from fellow members about the article. Since it is a long article I am only posting the link:

Factors Affecting India-Pakistan Relations - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

Please do not change this into a bashing contest and provide me with feedback.

 

[EjazR]

I would just make two points

(1) Pakistan doesn't have to use the two nation theory as its ideology which is not part of Islam itself in any case. It was only institutionalized in the Zia era. Before that it was not even part of the circulum. Pakistan should be taken to mean Punjab, Afghania(NWFP) Sindh, Kashmir (PaK part), Balochistan and use its ethno-cultural identity. Islam is a universal religion, not just Pakistans'.

(2)India's main concern is Terrorism emanating from Pakistani soil. Not just in mumbai or other parts of India but also in Indian Kashmir as well. This alone will go a long way in resolving any dispute or removing mistrusts. Terrorism by its very nature terrorizes people and may seem that people over-react but you have to realize that its natural and there should be no excuse for Pakistani territory being used for this activity. When taking into account India-Pakistan relations, from Indian perspective this will always be a high priority item.

 

[arihant]

I have written an article on the above subject. I would like to have opinion from fellow members about the article. Since it is a long article I am only posting the link:

Factors Affecting India-Pakistan Relations - Associated Content - associatedcontent.com

Please do not change this into a bashing contest and provide me with feedback.

I thing you didn't added anything extra to what really pakistan Govt. has taught. Simply no mix up. Totally clear article and honest one.

But you have forget to add Indian context in that. Although It is totally true from Pakistani Side, you are still missing half the truth.

You mention about lacs of muslims killed in 1947. Didn't Hindus and Sikhs killed. I think it was same no. of muslims and Hindus killed.

You wrote about Arm Struggle. It's not arm struggle, its terrorism. Similar to Taliban. Yes for India Taliban and Terrorism are same.

Recently 200 houses of christians burned. Do you provide protection to minority. I think you should even forget to recongnize as you are Islamic Republic than Secular one thought by Jina.

Referendum is not acceptable to them - As per UN Resolution, Pakistan has to first empty its army from the area. This was not done by Pak Army. As per Referendum, there is no independence option. So, Pakistan is making fool to Kashmirs by saying Azad while there are still in middle and can never become independent nation.

-Pakistan would find it difficult to accept any sort of Indian rule and so will Kashmiri's.

India would find it difficult to accept any sort of Pakistan rule and so will kashmirs.



But your article is still worth to be read by Indians.

 

[New Shivaji]

Ejaz007 you have a very simplistic view of factors affecting India-Pakistan.

From the Indian point of view

1. Conflict of Idealogy - Pakistan is a Islamic Republic , India is a Secular Democratic Country ( Rather problem is pakistan has been or controlled by military and is a major institution - India on the other hand is a democratic country)

2. Kashmir ( It's under the illegal occupation of Pakistan and china ( Aksai Chin area gifted by pakistan))

3. Mistrust ( Pakistan is more insecure in dealing with the larger neighbour)

4. Minorities ( Its not pakistan's business about how muslims live in India, there are a lot of evenues to redress their problems if any)

5. Military Balance ( Larger country has more defence needs and Indian outlook is not just restricted to pakistan)

6. Water Dispute ( Even during the wars of 65,71, Siachen , Kargil water accord was not broken, If their are any greivances pakistan can approach the world bank and they can settle the issue)

 

[Hussein]

Ejaz you have a very simplistic view of factors affecting India-Pakistan.

From the Indian point of view

1. Conflict of Idealogy - Pakistan is a Islamic Republic , India is a Secular Democratic Country ( Rather problem is pakistan has been or controlled by military and is a major institution - India on the other hand is a democratic country)

2. Kashmir ( It's under the illegal occupation of Pakistan and china ( Aksai Chin area gifted by pakistan))

3. Mistrust ( Pakistan is more insecure in dealing with the larger neighbour)

4. Minorities ( Its not pakistan's business about how muslims live in India, there are a lot of evenues to redress their problems if any)

5. Military Balance ( Larger country has more defence needs and Indian outlook is not just restricted to pakistan)

6. Water Dispute ( Even during the wars of 65,71, Siachen , Kargil water accord was not broken, If their are any greivances pakistan can approach the world bank and they can settle the issue)

From someone living in Europe point of view:
1- yes but you can see how much difference between poors and richs and how poor people are , even diing in the streets. what to think about a democracy with caste system

4- there is big problems well known that muslims are disrespected and chrisitans as well from a few muslims. there is a problem of living together right?

Is it possible that few of you from India could be a little smart and stop your propaganda? Is it possible to be smart there?

Thx

 

[EjazR]

New Shivaji,

I feel that I'm pretty well informed on what issues we face with are plenty. I was merely responding to the writers post. My two points are not everything about his article or ALL factors affecting the relationship, its IMO the most important affecting the relationship at this point in time.

This doesn't mean that everything will be hunky dory if just these two issues are resolved, but these issues particularly the second point will go a long way in improving ties.

 

[New Shivaji]

New Shivaji,

I feel that I'm pretty well informed on what issues we face with are plenty. I was merely responding to the writers post. My two points are not everything about his article or ALL factors affecting the relationship, its IMO the most important affecting the relationship at this point in time.

This doesn't mean that everything will be hunky dory if just these two issues are resolved, but these issues particularly the second point will go a long way in improving ties.

EjazR - I was not referring to you but to the other Ejaz007 who initiated this thread. The points you have made are quite valid.

 

[BlackSonic]

From someone living in Europe point of view:
1- yes but you can see how much difference between poors and richs and how poor people are , even diing in the streets. what to think about a democracy with caste system

4- there is big problems well known that muslims are disrespected and chrisitans as well from a few muslims. there is a problem of living together right?

Is it possible that few of you from India could be a little smart and stop your propaganda? Is it possible to be smart there?

Thx

Agree with point 1 but not with point two. You can give one example of disrespecting muslims and chrisitans in India and in return I can give you thousands of example of unity between different casts in India, but don't want to waste my time because you think that this is propaganda. And you can't argue with me on this because i have spent 23 years of my life in India. Problem of living together is only in minds of few stupid politicians and Media (not all media).

It's all about perspective. Even stupid people think that they are smart.

 

[RiazHaq]

Nothing affects India-Pakistan ties more than the long festering issue of Kashmir. There appears to be some progress on this issue in recent weeks.

Mirwaiz Farooq confirmed to the Indian Express in a recent interview that the four-point formula proposed by former Pakistani President Musharraf is being revived to try and settle the Kashmir issues. The Musharraf formula envisions soft or porous borders in Kashmir with freedom of movement for the Kashmiris; exceptional autonomy or "self-governance" within each region of Kashmir; phased demilitarization of all regions; and finally, a "joint supervisory mechanism," with representatives from India, Pakistan and all parts of Kashmir, to oversee the plan’s implementation.

“India is not ready for the joint-management part of the proposals which talk about joint control of foreign affairs, currency and communications in Kashmir,” Mirwaiz told the Indian Express. “There’s a broader agreement on the other aspects of this settlement model”.

The Hurriyat chairman said the new momentum in back-channel engagements among India, Pakistan and Hurriyat is because the US is pushing for movement in Kashmir to address Pakistani concerns. “There are several geo-political factors that are in play and persuading New Delhi to act,” Mirwaiz said. Apparently, the engagement has the blessing of China as well.

On contacts with New Delhi, Mirwaiz said that he would wait for back channels to produce something tangible before entering into a public dialogue with the India government. Mirwaiz met with Pakistani High Commissioner Shahid Malik last week. Meanwhile, former Hurriyat chairman Abdul Gani Bhat has been in Delhi for the past 10 days. He, Mirwaiz said, has maintained “communication” with “people from the government.” Bhat has also met twice with the Pakistani High Commissioner.

If the ongoing efforts on Kashmir make significant progress, the results of improved India-Pakistan ties will have a salutary effect on the entire region, raising the US hopes to see light at the end of the tunnel in Afghanistan.

Haq's Musings: China's Growing Role in Afghanistan, Kashmir

 

[MilesTogo]

self-delete

 

[MilesTogo]

can not be summed better

I would just make two points

(1) Pakistan doesn't have to use the two nation theory as its ideology which is not part of Islam itself in any case. It was only institutionalized in the Zia era. Before that it was not even part of the circulum. Pakistan should be taken to mean Punjab, Afghania(NWFP) Sindh, Kashmir (PaK part), Balochistan and use its ethno-cultural identity. Islam is a universal religion, not just Pakistans'.

(2)India's main concern is Terrorism emanating from Pakistani soil. Not just in mumbai or other parts of India but also in Indian Kashmir as well. This alone will go a long way in resolving any dispute or removing mistrusts. Terrorism by its very nature terrorizes people and may seem that people over-react but you have to realize that its natural and there should be no excuse for Pakistani territory being used for this activity. When taking into account India-Pakistan relations, from Indian perspective this will always be a high priority item.

 

[toxic_pus]

1- yes but you can see how much difference between poors and richs and how poor people are , even diing in the streets. what to think about a democracy with caste system

Can you please explain in a meaningful way, what is 'democracy with caste system' as opposed to 'democracy without caste' and how the later would have been able to bring about a parity of income and wealth.

4- there is big problems well known that muslims are disrespected and chrisitans as well from a few muslims. there is a problem of living together right?

Irrelevant, because it is still not Pakistan's headache.

Topic: Naive analysis. Almost reads like a school project.

 

[ejaz007]

Than you for all those who took out time to go through the artilce. Basically what every one has said is what I have tried to say. If we go through all the problems faced by two countries we shall come to realization that these are the issues which are responsible for the tension.

I have not put forward Pakistani version of the events but the basic fact that there are issues which need to be addressed to improve the relations between the two countries.

 

[Spring Onion]

I would just make two points

(1) Pakistan doesn't have to use the two nation theory as its ideology which is not part of Islam itself in any case. It was only institutionalized in the Zia era. Before that it was not even part of the circulum. Pakistan should be taken to mean Punjab, Afghania(NWFP) Sindh, Kashmir (PaK part), Balochistan and use its ethno-cultural identity. Islam is a universal religion, not just Pakistans'.

That is our internal matter. And the thinking which you showed in your above para is one of the biggest factors affecting Indo-Pak relations

(2)India's main concern is Terrorism emanating from Pakistani soil. Not just in mumbai or other parts of India but also in Indian Kashmir as well. This alone will go a long way in resolving any dispute or removing mistrusts. Terrorism by its very nature terrorizes people and may seem that people over-react but you have to realize that its natural and there should be no excuse for Pakistani territory being used for this activity. When taking into account India-Pakistan relations, from Indian perspective this will always be a high priority item.

Kashmir is the core of all tension between Pakistan and India. Kashmir is not part of India hence there is no question of terrorism in India viz viz Kashmir.



3. India is funding terrorsim in Balochistan province of Pakistan and also shelttering the terrorists from BLA and TTP.

 

[toxic_pus]

That is our internal matter. And the thinking which you showed in your above para is one of the biggest factors affecting Indo-Pak relations


Kashmir is the core of all tension between Pakistan and India. Kashmir is not part of India hence there is no question of terrorism in India viz viz Kashmir.

If Kashmir is indeed the core of all the tensions, then by extension the 'two nation theory' (TNT) is the core of all tensions. Here's what Z.A.Bhutto had to say about Kashmir conflict in 'Myth of Independence', written immediately after 1965 thrashing, before Bangladesh had happened.

If a Muslim majority area can remain a part of India, then the raison d'etre of Pakistan collapses. These are the reasons why India, to continue her domination of Jammu and Kashmir, defies international opinion and violates her pledges. For the same reasons, Pakistan must continue unremittingly her struggle for the right of self-determination of this subject people. Pakistan is incomplete without Jammu and Kashmir both territorially and ideologically. Recovering them, she would recover her head and be made whole, stronger, and more viable. It would be fatal if, in sheer exhaustion or out of intimidation, Pakistan were to abandon the struggle, and a bad compromise would be tantamount to abandonment; which might, in turn, lead to the collapse of Pakistan. If, however, we settle for tranquil relations with India, without an equitable resolution of disputes, it would be the first major step in establishing Indian leadership in our parts, with Pakistan and other neighbouring states becoming Indian satellites.

- pg 137

The issue of Kashmir is inextricably connected with Pakistan's deep identity crisis. So much so, that even 'tranquil relations with India' is not acceptable to Pakistan, unless all disputes have been settled, lest it appears to be accepting India as the leader in the region. Where else on earth, would one find such convoluted and confused political leadership.

Another angle to Kashmir conflict is its strategic location.

Yes, terrorism in Kashmir is indeed terrorism against India, because as per UN mandate, India is the one responsible for carrying out administrative functions and maintenance of law and order in Kashmir, that is controlled by India. Creating impediments, by means of violence, to India's UN sanctioned right, is indeed terrorism against India.

Next time try harder.

3. India is funding terrorsim in Balochistan province of Pakistan and also shelttering the terrorists from BLA and TTP.

Unsubstantiated self-serving speculation.