Facebook is the Eighth Most Visited Website in Pakistan

[A.Rahman]

This has nothing to do with drawing comparisons between Afghanistan and Pakistan, rather the established Islamic doctrine of segregation of males and females who are unmarried and/or unrelated.

Depends on what area you go to in Pak, some people follow it strictly others don't.

 

[Energon]

Depends on what area you go to in Pak, some people follow it strictly others don't.

Whomsoever consider's themsleves "Muslims" and decide to abide by it's doctrines regardless of which part of Pakistan they live in will find this behavior a breach of "values."

Mind you, I'm not equating conservative Muslims with radicals.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Whomsoever consider's themsleves "Muslims" and decide to abide by it's doctrines regardless of which part of Pakistan they live in will find this behavior a breach of "values."

Mind you, I'm not equating conservative Muslims with radicals.

Different Muslims will have different ideas of what it means to be a Muslim. Islamic officialdom may not show as much flexibility, but individual Muslims interpret Islam differently.

Some Muslims may indeed find this a "breach of values", but that doesn't mean that many others who find this acceptable don't consider themselves Muslims, or consider their actions as contradicting Islam (in any significant way).

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In terms of "polluting our culture" - that argument in fact insults ones own culture, because it implies that "our culture" is too weak to hold back the influence of "Western culture".

Cultures interact, absorb alien influences and evolve - that is how the world works. Trying to hold back this process is what is unnatural. Ironically, the Mullahs who want to clamp down on local culture - local arts, music, dance etc. - are inadvertently weakening the local Muslim cultures and making their populace more susceptible to outside influences.

 

[Xeric]

In terms of "polluting our culture" - that argument in fact insults ones own culture, because it implies that "our culture" is too weak to hold back the influence of "Western culture".

Cultures interact, absorb alien influences and evolve - that is how the world works. Trying to hold back this process is what is unnatural. Ironically, the Mullahs who want to clamp down on local culture - local arts, music, dance etc. - are inadvertently weakening the local Muslim cultures and making their populace more susceptible to outside influences.

Well, here you are contardicting your own statements. first you term our culture as "weak" and then you justified this affect but talking about the theology how different cultures absorb others and evolve.
It is a fact that every culutral do have some effect on other cultures, so it is not the weakness or rigidness of a culture to accept or restrict changes..it is how the people iterpret those changes and in which context the "people" let the alien cultures affect theirs.
In short what i mean is ..guud things should be accepted and "bad" things should be highlighted and their pros and cons told so that people themselves can decide wehther to accept it or not. Ofcourse the "father's" giudance should have the upper hand so that people are told that we as a country and ummah take a certain thing bad..and recommend you to refrain from it...but still the final choice stays with you. I dont think anybody will still like to follow those bad things. i hope u understand mate.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well, here you are contardicting your own statements. first you term our culture as "weak" and then you justified this affect but talking about the theology how different cultures absorb others and evolve.
It is a fact that every culutral do have some effect on other cultures, so it is not the weakness or rigidness of a culture to accept or restrict changes..it is how the people iterpret those changes and in which context the "people" let the alien cultures affect theirs.
In short what i mean is ..guud things should be accepted and "bad" things should be highlighted and their pros and cons told so that people themselves can decide wehther to accept it or not. Ofcourse the "father's" giudance should have the upper hand so that people are told that we as a country and ummah take a certain thing bad..and recommend you to refrain from it...but still the final choice stays with you. I dont think anybody will still like to follow those bad things. i hope u understand mate.

If individual cultures are allowed to blossom and thrive, then the interaction between cultures does not result in one overwhelming the other, but a gradual evolution with each absorbing some of the other (to varying degrees).

However when you try and restrict local cultures, I would argue that because there isn't any more local art, music dance etc. a larger percentage of people will seek out those interests from foreign sources and that results in a larger "foreign cultural influence".

In terms of "good and bad", I have nothing against Parents imposing restriction on the activities their children take part in - I was referring to the more conservative members of our society who get their panties in a bunch over "immoral music and Western TV", and then also want "female images" removed from billboards, and ban local artists from performing under the guise of "immorality".

The art and culture scene in the NWFP was pretty much destroyed during the reign of the MMA.

 

[Xeric]

If individual cultures are allowed to blossom and thrive, then the interaction between cultures does not result in one overwhelming the other, but a gradual evolution with each absorbing some of the other (to varying degrees).

However when you try and restrict local cultures, I would argue that because there isn't any more local art, music dance etc. a larger percentage of people will seek out those interests from foreign sources and that results in a larger "foreign cultural influence".

In terms of "good and bad", I have nothing against Parents imposing restriction on the activities their children take part in - I was referring to the more conservative members of our society who get their panties in a bunch over "immoral music and Western TV", and then also want "female images" removed from billboards, and ban local artists from performing under the guise of "immorality".

The art and culture scene in the NWFP was pretty much destroyed during the reign of the MMA.

Well i will not discuss much about this, but i will like to add that principally speaking our religion dont allow women photos (without hidding their head to be displayed). Now i dont want to indulge into another discussion, i knw majority of our women folk dont cover their heads and to the hijab(mind it by hijab i dont mean that they should become a "ninja"...Islam do allow women to show their face but ofcourse not their hair or cleavages). Again there is no harm in wearing coats, blazers, suites, trousers, shirts etc unless they cover their body as per the teaching. Then i think you may display any amount of women on billborads.
in the end i will like to quote Energon... "Mind you, I'm not equating conservative Muslims with radicals."

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well i will not discuss much about this, but i will like to add that principally speaking our religion dont allow women photos (without hidding their head to be displayed). Now i dont want to indulge into another discussion, i knw majority of our women folk dont cover their heads and to the hijab(mind it by hijab i dont mean that they should become a "ninja"...Islam do allow women to show their face but ofcourse not their hair or cleavages). Again there is no harm in wearing coats, blazers, suites, trousers, shirts etc unless they cover their body as per the teaching. Then i think you may display any amount of women on billborads.
in the end i will like to quote Energon... "Mind you, I'm not equating conservative Muslims with radicals."

I agree that this isn't the thread for a "Hijab" discussion - but many Muslims do not interpret Islam as demanding the "covering restrictions" you describe.

So it would be best if their opinions are respected as well.

It comes down to this, no one is forcing you to stare at a billboard twenty feet in th eair, no one is forcing you to view pornographic material, no one is forcing you to go on facebook, no one is forcing you to participate in dancing or watch music videos.

So extend the same respect to others, understand that Islam does not allow for anyone to force their opinion of religion on others, and let those who desire put up billboards, sell movies and participate in dance and Music (within the overall cultural standards - which is settled by having a democratic government that can pass restrictions).

 

[Xeric]

I agree that this isn't the thread for a "Hijab" discussion - but many Muslims do not interpret Islam as demanding the "covering restrictions" you describe.

So it would be best if their opinions are respected as well.

It comes down to this, no one is forcing you to stare at a billboard twenty feet in th eair, no one is forcing you to view pornographic material, no one is forcing you to go on facebook, no one is forcing you to participate in dancing or watch music videos.

So extend the same respect to others, understand that Islam does not allow for anyone to force their opinion of religion on others, and let those who desire put up billboards, sell movies and participate in dance and Music (within the overall cultural standards - which is settled by having a democratic government that can pass restrictions).

hmmmm
Here you are wrong dude. At one place you justify that cultures do have affect on other cultures and then you say that they dont matter....
You and me might refrain doing the things you mentioned may be co of our age or might be coz we already had enuff of it, but what about a kid. A small child who cant think about guud or bad. Who dont has a judgemnent to make. Why do most ( i have used the word most not "all") of the people born in usa or any other country in the west have diffrent values as compared to ours. I knw girls who belive they are muslims, Pakistanis, they arevery particular as regards to having illict realtions with boys. They are guud girls...but still they dont cover them up...they dont feel bad in wearing deep necks, burmudas, shorts...etc etc... most of them also pray 5 times a day...but as it is only the western culture that they have seen so they can diffrentiate between "guud and bad" things...
So my dear there is a need to reistrict these kinda things. Kal ap ye b kahay gay k let alcohol, drugs, rated movies etc etc be made legall and be made available locally to everyone, because it is upto a individual to choose wehther to make use of these things or not...oh yes now i knw you are talking about "freedom" hmmm the definition as perpetuated by america....do what ever you like to unless you break the law...well i do ask them why there is a need of a law if you beleive in freedom to such and extent..let people roam naked on streets and let ploygammy be legal (as happened in Texas) let drugs be made locally available....it is a free country eveyone has the right to look, or not to look, make use of or not to make use of drugs etc etc... and none of them has yet answered me to my satisfaction.
Islam do impose some restrictions dear...for example Islam do say if your kid dont go for praying by 9 you may scold him and if he dont fast or pray by the time he is 15 you can beat him to do these things(i am not exactly sure abt the ages..sorry)
So the thing is that you cant just make everything available and then say it is people's choice to use it or not to use it. Try to leave your shop or bank open over night and give people from any country a choice .....i can assure you will find both of them empty by first light (i ma usinng fuji termnology now)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

hmmmm
Here you are wrong dude. At one place you justify that cultures do have affect on other cultures and then you say that they dont matter....
You and me might refrain doing the things you mentioned may be co of our age or might be coz we already had enuff of it, but what about a kid. A small child who cant think about guud or bad. Who dont has a judgemnent to make. Why do most ( i have used the word most not "all") of the people born in usa or any other country in the west have diffrent values as compared to ours. I knw girls who belive they are muslims, Pakistanis, they arevery particular as regards to having illict realtions with boys. They are guud girls...but still they dont cover them up...they dont feel bad in wearing deep necks, burmudas, shorts...etc etc... most of them also pray 5 times a day...but as it is only the western culture that they have seen so they can diffrentiate between "guud and bad" things...
So my dear there is a need to reistrict these kinda things. Kal ap ye b kahay gay k let alcohol, drugs, rated movies etc etc be made legall and be made available locally to everyone, because it is upto a individual to choose wehther to make use of these things or not...oh yes now i knw you are talking about "freedom" hmmm the definition as perpetuated by america....do what ever you like to unless you break the law...well i do ask them why there is a need of a law if you beleive in freedom to such and extent..let people roam naked on streets and let ploygammy be legal (as happened in Texas) let drugs be made locally available....it is a free country eveyone has the right to look, or not to look, make use of or not to make use of drugs etc etc... and none of them has yet answered me to my satisfaction.
Islam do impose some restrictions dear...for example Islam do say if your kid dont go for praying by 9 you may scold him and if he dont fast or pray by the time he is 15 you can beat him to do these things(i am not exactly sure abt the ages..sorry)
So the thing is that you cant just make everything available and then say it is people's choice to use it or not to use it. Try to leave your shop or bank open over night and give people from any country a choice .....i can assure you will find both of them empty by first light (i ma usinng fuji termnology now)

You are mixing up a lot of different issues here - I said that cultures interact and evolve at anytime, but if you repress local culture, then foreign cultures have an even greater influence, because then people have no choice but that foreign culture.

Also, you are taking the argument of "freedom to an extreme" - when you say "restriction" I don't automatically assume that you are talking about the Taliban, so please don't just go of into "freedom means allow crimes and public sex". There are levels of moderation in between.

This is an old tactic of the Mullah's, that whenever you talk about basic individual rights like these, they drag in caricatures of the West and make outrageous correlations to freedom implying freedom for crime etc.

A billboard, or facebook, or lack of HIjab does not cause harm to society like murders, thefts and drugs - therefore they shouldn't be put in the same category and people should have the choice to do as they wish in those instances.

I already stated that parents have a right to control their children activities, since children, for a variety of reasons, cannot be always trusted to make the right choices themselves - so there is no argument there., and many in the West also make the same argument.