Examining the Financial Side of Joint Fighter 17 Project

[Yaseen1]

we should also focus on engine development.jf17 has very weak engine as compared to f16

No way, China will help us and may be Turkey also, and look bro its good to achieve this long term goal, may be China support us in designing (fuselage development ) phase, and avionics and radar build by Pakistan with a help of Turkey, so i think i assume that first flight will be 2028-2030 and mass produce afterword, if we achieve project AZM in time it will be huge boost in almost every fields (computer to sensors, radars to Fuselage) may be in engine field also, forget a cost but think what will be gains from the development of project AZM @Muhammad bin Hamid bro

 

[Ultima Thule]

we should also focus on engine development.jf17 has very weak engine as compared to f16

No engine for JF-17 is fine, JF-17 and F-16 are in the different categories, JF-17 is lightweight jet whereas F-16 is a medium weight jet, with RD-93 JF-17 thrust to weight ratio is above 1 @Muhammad bin Hamid

 

[Yaseen1]

due to weak engine jf17 carry less weapon payload and has less maneuverability than F16

No engine for JF-17 is fine, JF-17 and F-16 are in the different categories, JF-17 is lightweight jet whereas F-16 is a medium weight jet, with RD-93 JF-17 thrust to weight ratio is above 1 @Muhammad bin Hamid

 

[Ultima Thule]

due to weak engine jf17 carry less weapon payload and has less maneuverability than F16

Nooooooooooooooooo its weapon payloads is fine for its class @Muhammad bin Hamid look Taiwanese FCK-1/, FA-50, and Grippen C/D, these are have similar/comparable weapon payloads to JF-17 and comparable to JF-17 @Muhammad bin Hamid

 

[usman012]

Jf-17 Need complete redesigning from head to toe.The most important is the engine .The engine just produces 19000 Pounds of thrust .The load carrying capability is not just as good as F-16 or even closer to f-16 .The wings are too small to carry more weapons .The only good part is the DSI intakes .

 

[Ultima Thule]

Jf-17 Need complete redesigning from head to toe.The most important is the engine .The engine just produces 19000 Pounds of thrust .The load carrying capability is not just as good as F-16 or even closer to f-16 .The wings are too small to carry more weapons .The only good part is the DSI intakes .

Its a lightweight fighter jet Mr and fine for its class @usman012

 

[usman012]

f-16 was also designed as light weight cost effective fighter but it gradually evolved as medium weight fighter .

 

[SQ8]

f-16 was also designed as light weight cost effective fighter but it gradually evolved as medium weight fighter .

The F-16 also went a little sluggish and current examples run much more expensive than what was originally intended. The JF-17 is built to a purpose and a requirement, that requirement is defined by the PAF. You don’t bring a heavy machine gun when the requirement is a carbine.
The advantages of having it in house mean that the engine and other structural upgrades are already in place.. and I am afraid to ask you to elaborate regarding complete redesign; but please do tell us where the JF-17 is aerodynamically deficient due to which airfoil and fuselage section and how the DSI is the only good thing?

 

[mudas777]

Jf-17 Need complete redesigning from head to toe.The most important is the engine .The engine just produces 19000 Pounds of thrust .The load carrying capability is not just as good as F-16 or even closer to f-16 .The wings are too small to carry more weapons .The only good part is the DSI intakes .

I think we should ask Trump to give us more F16 as my country man don't like no. 2 products made in Pakistan/China. F16 looks more sleek, mean and sexy and see how many we will get from US and even if they are willing to sell how many we can afford and when push came to shove how many will be flying after sanctions.

It was our air force decision to go for the light weight category plane to replace Mirages and F6/F7 and no one pushed or forced us to go in any other direction. We could barely afford even that amount of money at that time but regardless of that a bold and courageous decision was made to have our own plane. Do people realized how many other countries doesn't wanted us not to go on that route. Even a Chinese official advised PAF official we can give you the parts and you can assemble it as Pakistan have got no experience and no infrastructure for that. I know Chinese official didn't had any malicious intent but that was the fact he was stating and it could have been an easy way out for us.
I know the plane have not got high enough clearance to carry cruise missiles or not as many hard points to carry more weapons but that was the PAF choice to replace our antiquated planes.

Now we got our own plane its not the best in the world but good in its category. Also it can do most of the jobs which PAF wants the plane to do. So we have taken the first steps in the manufacturing of planes and hopefully by the grace of Allah more to come.
If and when we do decide to replace the F16 or build the medium category planes that's for the future. Firstly we need to fix the economy so we can afford the other necessities of our armed forces. Technically and numerically India have got a better air force but then India is a bigger country and have got far larger economy. We are not in arms race with India or with anyone else but as long as we can defend our freedom and none of the enemy plane goes unchallenged from our air space that's the prime motive is. So far what India have got we can stand up to them and can say mate watch my space. When down the line IAF moves on to the better toys am sure PAF will follow suit. Lets hope after block 3 PAF goes for the medium category as like any other light category plane JF17 have got limitations but plane must again be manufactured in Pakistan. I am too old for stresses of sanctions and dramas which comes with the planes when you buy from other countries.

 

[DarX]

friend,
our politicians have no interest or say in defense projects. the funds for strategic research and weapons procurement are pre planned and done by civil/ military experts.
dictators made dams which politicians failed to do and have vowed never ever to allow anyway. yes moterway credit goes to Nawaz

Dear Friend,

As much as I admire the army, saying that Politicians have no interest or say in defence projects, and planning for this is done by military implies that civilians have no control over the army. Is that a reasonable thing? Is the army from another country? Bhutto was a civilian and yet he announced in defiance of the world that “Pakistan will eat grass but will become a nuclear power”. Nawaz Sharif was a civilian and in defiance of America withstood the pressure to go ahead with the nuclear explosions. America offered Ten billion dollars in aid and complete protection, but Nawaz Sharif took the stand. People might say that he was forced by the military but he was the one who took the pressure from America. Musharraf bent over the moment America threatened him, but Nawaz Sharif said no even when Pakistani forces were much weaker than they are today.

Yes Tarbela and Mangla were built during the Ayub dictatorship, but dams are a long term project which require lots of resources. People forget that Pakistan was America’s darling in the 60’s and all of those projects were funded by America, and even the Indians contributed to the costs. With more than 50% load shedding in cities and the industry completely dead after Musharraf’s dictatorship, Pakistan needed power and infrastructure to survive. If there is no employment, people tear each other apart before anyone would think of dams. So I’m not surprised that dams weren’t the top priority of the previous govts.

This dam fund of today is a joke and I’m amazed people take it seriously. There is no possibility that Pakistan can build a dam without outside funding. All I see is that this as a gimmick to malign politicians and nothing else. Take a deeper look and you will see another picture.

The decision to allocate some funds for JF-17 came from Military 100% they forced to reserve some funds for this project. Otherwise , the governments we had 90's ,00's all had more interest to take international loans instead of fixing the economy

You only have to see the acceleration in fall of currency from 1990's when 18.84 rupee was equal to 1 Dollar this was in my own life time. It was not like something which happened 100 years ago

One of the strangest things I found was during that time our Agriculture produced Bumper yield and crops year to year , decade to decade we have doubled trippled our production

• We had better farming
• We had better Tractors given to Farmers
• We introduced Fishery farming to Pakistan
• We had better animal breeding and number of animals grown in Pakistan

1 rupee difference in currency happens after almost 1 Billion dollar of manipulation is done

Here is one of the talked about Motor ways one is here mere 350 km long
This 1 motorway not made with Titanium that caused a massive drop on currency
in 90's

View attachment 502251


All of these already existed in Pakistan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Highways_of_Pakistan
Linking of Karachi-Gwadar was done under Musharaf's time

View attachment 502254
View attachment 502256
I am certain majority of Pakistani might have a misconception that Nawaz sharif constructed all these Motorways and highways

So I though to actually do a check to see what exactly did Nawaz Sharif do

This is an economics topic but you are saying things that go against economic theory. Please study that and you will see the true facts.

But if you just want to believe propaganda, it is your right to create as much of your own economics theory as you like.

 

[Yaseen1]

google world best fighterjets you will not see jf17 in any list.It is not world class jet

Nooooooooooooooooo its weapon payloads is fine for its class @Muhammad bin Hamid look Taiwanese FCK-1/, FA-50, and Grippen C/D, these are have similar/comparable weapon payloads to JF-17 and comparable to JF-17 @Muhammad bin Hamid

 

[Ultima Thule]

google world best fighterjets you will not see jf17 in any list.It is not world class jet

So what, its doesn't matter, PAF satisfied with JF-17 performance that's matter Case closed @Muhammad bin Hamid

google world best fighterjets you will not see jf17 in any list.It is not world class jet

We are not going export first world countries like USA/EU and second world countries like RUSSIA/China etc etc or rich middle eastern countries which have a better options than JF-17, it will mostly export to third world countries like which is in Africa, Latin America, southeast Asia @Muhammad bin Hamid

 

[Yaseen1]

3rd world will also not buy jf17 from us when they can buy much cheap and better jet directly from chi

So what, its doesn't matter, PAF satisfied with JF-17 performance that's matter Case closed @Muhammad bin Hamid


We are not going export first world countries like USA/EU and second world countries like RUSSIA/China etc etc or rich middle eastern countries which have a better options than JF-17, it will mostly export to third world countries like which is in Africa, Latin America, southeast Asia @Muhammad bin Hamid

na and russia

 

[Ultima Thule]

3rd world will also not buy jf17 from us when they can buy much cheap and better jet directly from chi

na and russia

Like??? @Muhammad bin Hamid

3rd world will also not buy jf17 from us when they can buy much cheap and better jet directly from chi

na and russia

There no Fighter jets Cheaper Than JF-17 form Russia and China, I repeat i say FIGHTER, And you're talking about LIFT (Advance trainers) @Muhammad bin Hamid

 

[ziaulislam]

due to weak engine jf17 carry less weapon payload and has less maneuverability than F16

But also cost less..in air defence rule its as good ..the resson sweds made gripen ...in this era its smart bombs and small diameters bombs

The only addition that will help will be CFTs to increase endurance

May be 10% more thrust will help

But no major changes needed..thunder is ideal in its current state..it would have been a blunder if we had good govts and now could have afforded better like India can...but our military planners knew that that benazir and nawaz are here to stay and dry Pakistan

Jf-17 Need complete redesigning from head to toe.The most important is the engine .The engine just produces 19000 Pounds of thrust .The load carrying capability is not just as good as F-16 or even closer to f-16 .The wings are too small to carry more weapons .The only good part is the DSI intakes .

F16 is blunder it carring capacity is no where near f15..
I think even f15 is blunder its capacity is no where near b2 well even B2 is blunder the B51 IS THE BEST