European Airlines say Chinese have ‘unfair advantage’ flying over Russia

[beijingwalker]

European Airlines say Chinese have ‘unfair advantage’ flying over Russia​

Feburary 17 2023

European airlines have warned they will struggle to compete with Chinese rivals as travel rebounds after Covid-19 lockdowns because they are forced to take longer routes to Asia to avoid flying over Russia. Ben Smith, chief executive of Air France-KLM, said Chinese airlines had an “unfair advantage” over European carriers that have been banned from Russian airspace since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine almost a year ago.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine redrew some of the world’s main flight paths, cutting European airlines off from Russian airspace when flying the “great circle route” over northern Russia. But Chinese carriers can still fly over Russia and take shorter routes to Europe. “Between Paris and Seoul, it can add up to three hours in flight time,” Smith told the Financial Times. “If you’ve got a Chinese carrier that is flying over Russia, they’ve got an unfair advantage over us.” Finnair chief executive Topi Manner this week also warned that European airlines were at a “significant” disadvantage. “We think that what this will mean is that it will be very hard to make secondary cities of China profitable in terms of flying,” he said.

Finland’s flag carrier built its business by using its location in the north of Europe to offer quick flight paths to Asia through northern Russia, and was badly hit by the sudden closure of the country’s airspace last year. “It adds hours to the journey and thus fuel, costs and emissions,” said Andrew Charlton, an aviation consultant. Finnair flights between Helsinki and Tokyo now take over 13 hours, up from 9 hours 30 before the airspace closures.

Charlton said the rerouted flights would also add to congestion in the skies over Europe, leading to likely air traffic control delays. The warnings came as a wider rebound in air travel is already bringing traffic close to pre-pandemic levels in regions such as Europe, fuelling a recovery for the industry. In particular, airlines are hoping to capitalise on an expected return of Chinese tourists to popular shopping destinations such as Paris. Smith said the Franco-Dutch group was gradually increasing its flights to Shanghai and Beijing and planned to return to at least 50 per cent of its 2019 flight capacity in China.

Air France-KLM last year returned to profit for the first time since 2019 with revenues rising sharply, it said on Friday. The group expects its global capacity to increase further in 2023. It has been one of the big beneficiaries of the renewed appetite for air travel within Europe and to the US since last year. It is trying to move past the last of its pandemic woes by whittling down the €10bn in state bailouts it received to cope with grounded flights. That will allow the group to move freely to make acquisitions again, as some of the aid came with EU restrictions on making purchases and paying dividends. By the end of April, Air France-KLM said it will have repaid its €2.5bn in remaining French state-guaranteed loans and refinanced some state-linked hybrid bonds, ridding itself of the strings attached to parts of the aid package.

Separately, Smith hit out at a Dutch government plan to cut the maximum number of flights permitted at Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport from the end of this year, in an effort to reduce excess noise for local residents. Air France-KLM was “fighting it very hard”, he said, adding that the group aimed to roll out newer aircraft that would help reduce noise pollution. Smith’s warning came as the boss of the parent of Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport, the hub of KLM, issued a public apology for the company’s performance over the past year as passengers suffered disruption. “Never before in Schiphol’s history have we disappointed so many travellers and airlines as in 2022,” Royal Schiphol Group chief executive Ruud Sondag said on Friday.

Airlines say Chinese have ‘unfair advantage’ flying over Russia

Ukraine war restrictions force carriers to take longer route, says Air France-KLM chief

www.ft.com

 

[Viet]

European Airlines say Chinese have ‘unfair advantage’ flying over Russia​

Feburary 17 2023

European airlines have warned they will struggle to compete with Chinese rivals as travel rebounds after Covid-19 lockdowns because they are forced to take longer routes to Asia to avoid flying over Russia. Ben Smith, chief executive of Air France-KLM, said Chinese airlines had an “unfair advantage” over European carriers that have been banned from Russian airspace since the full-scale invasion of Ukraine almost a year ago.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine redrew some of the world’s main flight paths, cutting European airlines off from Russian airspace when flying the “great circle route” over northern Russia. But Chinese carriers can still fly over Russia and take shorter routes to Europe. “Between Paris and Seoul, it can add up to three hours in flight time,” Smith told the Financial Times. “If you’ve got a Chinese carrier that is flying over Russia, they’ve got an unfair advantage over us.” Finnair chief executive Topi Manner this week also warned that European airlines were at a “significant” disadvantage. “We think that what this will mean is that it will be very hard to make secondary cities of China profitable in terms of flying,” he said.

Finland’s flag carrier built its business by using its location in the north of Europe to offer quick flight paths to Asia through northern Russia, and was badly hit by the sudden closure of the country’s airspace last year. “It adds hours to the journey and thus fuel, costs and emissions,” said Andrew Charlton, an aviation consultant. Finnair flights between Helsinki and Tokyo now take over 13 hours, up from 9 hours 30 before the airspace closures.

Charlton said the rerouted flights would also add to congestion in the skies over Europe, leading to likely air traffic control delays. The warnings came as a wider rebound in air travel is already bringing traffic close to pre-pandemic levels in regions such as Europe, fuelling a recovery for the industry. In particular, airlines are hoping to capitalise on an expected return of Chinese tourists to popular shopping destinations such as Paris. Smith said the Franco-Dutch group was gradually increasing its flights to Shanghai and Beijing and planned to return to at least 50 per cent of its 2019 flight capacity in China.

Air France-KLM last year returned to profit for the first time since 2019 with revenues rising sharply, it said on Friday. The group expects its global capacity to increase further in 2023. It has been one of the big beneficiaries of the renewed appetite for air travel within Europe and to the US since last year. It is trying to move past the last of its pandemic woes by whittling down the €10bn in state bailouts it received to cope with grounded flights. That will allow the group to move freely to make acquisitions again, as some of the aid came with EU restrictions on making purchases and paying dividends. By the end of April, Air France-KLM said it will have repaid its €2.5bn in remaining French state-guaranteed loans and refinanced some state-linked hybrid bonds, ridding itself of the strings attached to parts of the aid package.

Separately, Smith hit out at a Dutch government plan to cut the maximum number of flights permitted at Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport from the end of this year, in an effort to reduce excess noise for local residents. Air France-KLM was “fighting it very hard”, he said, adding that the group aimed to roll out newer aircraft that would help reduce noise pollution. Smith’s warning came as the boss of the parent of Amsterdam’s Schiphol airport, the hub of KLM, issued a public apology for the company’s performance over the past year as passengers suffered disruption. “Never before in Schiphol’s history have we disappointed so many travellers and airlines as in 2022,” Royal Schiphol Group chief executive Ruud Sondag said on Friday.

Airlines say Chinese have ‘unfair advantage’ flying over Russia

Ukraine war restrictions force carriers to take longer route, says Air France-KLM chief

www.ft.com

No surprise when a war happens in Europe everybody in Europe will suffer. It’s just about how suffers most. Europe is the big loser, while US, China laughing on the way to the bank.

But wait, Xi jinping wants to start a war in Far East before he retires. Then everyone in Asia will suffer. The US will laugh more on the way to the bank.

 

[Hack-Hook]

No surprise when a war happens in Europe everybody in Europe will suffer. It’s just about how suffers most. Europe is the big loser, while US, China laughing on the way to the bank.

But wait, Xi jinping wants to start a war in Far East before he retires. Then everyone in Asia will suffer. The US will laugh more on the way to the bank.

time to arm some separatist cult and factions in USA , start another 4 years long civil war there

 

[StraightEdge]

time to arm some separatist cult and factions in USA , start another 4 years long civil war there

You don't need to. They are already armed and mostly likely they are already fighting and killing each other.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You don't need to. They are already armed and mostly likely they are already fighting and killing each other.

they need to be armed with atgm and anti aircraft missiles . if they want to have any chance , they need cannon and mlrs

 

[AViet]

they need to be armed with atgm and anti aircraft missiles . if they want to have any chance , they need cannon and mlrs

Most big empires collapsed by its own. We all can see it now in the US big cities. People has lost the moral ground and do not know which is right and wrong, thank to years of brainwashing by liberal media. (Plus the low average IQ of the mass)

 

[Beny Karachun]

time to arm some separatist cult and factions in USA , start another 4 years long civil war there

they need to be armed with atgm and anti aircraft missiles . if they want to have any chance , they need cannon and mlrs

Lol, foolish Iranians constantly think they can arm everyone. You can't even arm Syria without getting blown up.
How would one smuggle heavy weapons into the US lmfao

 

[Hack-Hook]

Lol, foolish Iranians constantly think they can arm everyone. You can't even arm Syria without getting blown up.
How would one smuggle heavy weapons into the US lmfao

not exactly , whoever we wanted we managed to arm , you just bomb the tip of iceberg and only Syrians not Iranian
we certainly can smuggle enough weapon into USA if we want to make it a security hellhole

 

[nahtanbob]

time to arm some separatist cult and factions in USA , start another 4 years long civil war there

we are already armed to the teeth

 

[Hack-Hook]

we are already armed to the teeth

Not with enough destructive weapons.
I want to see each average Joe armed with Stinger and each American car mounted with a tow .

 

[Stranagor]

Most big empires collapsed by its own. We all can see it now in the US big cities. People has lost the moral ground and do not know which is right and wrong, thank to years of brainwashing by liberal media. (Plus the low average IQ of the mass)

But in which big cities do people stick to a specific moral compass?

US is no worse, on that ground.

In fact, it has an advantage, for only 9 US cities have population over a million.

On that ground, with its population dispersed all across the relatively more habitable large land area, the US has a certain advantage over more crowded places.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

No surprise when a war happens in Europe everybody in Europe will suffer. It’s just about how suffers most. Europe is the big loser, while US, China laughing on the way to the bank.

What are you talking about? US carriers have a far worse time than the EU.

Russia is between us and most of Asia.

 

[beijingwalker]

Russia’s war on Ukraine redrew the map of the sky – but not for Chinese airlines​

CNN
Updated 10:03 AM EDT, Tue April 25, 2023

Chinese airlines are able to take a more direct route to Europe.
Arnulf Hettrich/imageBROKER/Newscom

ParisCNN —
In the early days of the invasion of Ukraine, the European Union and Russia closed off their airspace to each other – an aerial blockade that has remained in place ever since.
Now that China has reconnected to the world after almost three years of Covid border closures – welcome news to the world’s recovering tourism markets – some in the European aviation industry are calling out what they feel is an unlevel playing field.

During a visit to China in April, French President Emanuel Macron announced that France-headquartered Airbus landed huge deals in China, as the two countries vowed to “resume airlinks to pre-pandemic levels as quickly as possible.”

However, reviving these air links could be a much simpler prospect for Chinese airlines than European.

Longer flights, more fuel​

Like other passengers flying on European carriers to Asia, Macron did not take the quickest route between France and China – his plane avoided flying over Russia for both political and security reasons.

But because Beijing and Moscow are still friends, direct, quicker routes remain open over Russian airspace, requiring less fuel and bringing better profits.

“The closure of Russian airspace for European airlines has forced European carriers to take detours, involving more southern flight routes to East and Southeast Asia,” Laurent Donceel, managing director of Airlines for Europe (A4E) told CNN.

“This has resulted in longer flight times and added to the fuel used on these flights.”

The biggest airline association in Europe, A4E’s members include major players such as British Airways, Air France, KLM, Lufthansa and Finnair, all of which have had routes and flight times affected by the closure of Russian airspace.

Finnair, which operates out of a major aviation hub at Helsinki, has been hit the most due to its proximity to Russia, according to Donceel. A flight between Helsinki and Singapore now has an additional 1,400 kilometers (2,250 miles) to negotiate.

Between Helsinki and Seoul, that’s an extra 4,000 kilometers one-way.

“To put that in context, 1,400 kilometers adds 1.25 hours to the flight, and 4,000 kilometers adds seven hours on a round trip between Helsinki and Seoul,” Donceel said.
While that certainly spells more inconvenience for passengers, Donceel added that it also has commercial implications.

“This does put European airlines at a competitive disadvantage,” he said.

Ban demands​

Finnair has been one of the most significantly affected carriers on Europe-Asia routes.
Henrik Kettunen/Bloomberg/Getty Images

Ben Smith, CEO of the Air France-KLM Group called it an “unfair advantage” in an interview with British newspaper Financial Times published on February 17.

French Transport Minister Clément Beaune told CNN at the end of February that he has yet to receive any official complaints from Air France.

Currently China Eastern’s direct flights from Shanghai take 12 hours, while Air France, which it partners with through the SkyTeam airline alliance, takes 14 hours.

Similarly, the direct flight from Frankfurt to Beijing on German carrier Lufthansa takes 11 hours while its Chinese partner in Star Alliance, Air China, needs only nine hours.
Star Alliance declined to comment on this issue.

Some Western airlines have abandoned routes to East Asia. Virgin Atlantic put an official end to its London to Hong Kong route in March after almost 30 years of service, citing the logistical impact of the detour.

“On the basis of Russian airspace remaining closed, Heathrow – Hong Kong flight times would be approximately 60 minutes longer and Hong Kong – Heathrow flight time would be 1 hours and 50 minutes longer than prior to airspace closure,” the airline told CNN.

Founder of Virgin Group, Richard Branson expressed his support for a ban on all Chinese carriers flying to the UK via Russian airspace in an interview with British newspaper The Telegraph at the end of 2022.

He told the newspaper that airlines flying over Russia were indirectly helping the Kremlin’s war effort.

Safety implications​

Virgin's Richard Branson has called for a ban on Chinese airlines flying to Europe via Russian airspace.

Russian airspace bordering Ukraine has been closed to all commercial airlines since the start of the invasion.

The European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA), in its latest conflict zone information bulletin update on March 16, also advised that airlines flying over Moscow-administered airspace should exercise caution due to “heightened military activity which may include launches of mid-range missiles penetrating into controlled airspace.”

The risk of flying in proximity to active conflict zones was brutally highlighted in 2014, when Malaysian Airline MH17 flight from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur was shot down over eastern Ukraine, killing 298 people.

Investigators later concluded that the missile which downed the plane was fired from a launcher belonging to Russia’s 53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade.

China’s European routes do not fly near Ukraine airspace. They primarily enter or depart Russian airspace above the Baltic Sea, near St. Petersburg.

Whether Chinese travelers – or passengers heading on the return leg from Europe – are concerned about the risks of flying through any Russian airspace remains to be seen.
CNN has reached out to the three main state-owned Chinese airlines – Air China, China Eastern and China Southern – for comments.

For now, Chinese airlines have yet to return to full pre-pandemic capacities. For instance, China Southern Airlines, with its base in the southern city of Guangzhou, will still only have one flight per week for its routes connecting Guangzhou to Paris and Frankfurt for the summer fall season of 2023, while pre-pandemic level was at one flight per day.

But as Chinese airlines gradually return to normal and the war in Ukraine continues to rage on, European airlines could potentially face more fierce challenges on routes between Europe and East or Southeast Asia, creating some interesting choices for passengers.

Russia's war on Ukraine redrew the map of the sky -- but not for Chinese airlines | CNN

Air routes to China are now open again. But with Chinese airlines able to use Russian airspace currently blockaded to their European rivals, passengers can expect very different experiences depending on which carrier they choose to fly with.

www.cnn.com

 

[NagaBaba]

west can attack China planes and putting blame on the PUTIN.

just like MALAYSIA PLANE flight number 17