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Eurojet leaves TFX engine bid

Why should i get hurt if i was the right one..?
Instead of talking and talking again, try to learn how to listen people..
 
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Engine ToT is a near impossibility.
Especially for a thrust vectoring variant.
Russian thrust vectoring variants of AL-31 used on Su30 MKI and Su35 are good and more powerful options. You might even get limited ToT.
But Turkey being NATO...


Turkey is not a new player on engine sector. Industry is officially developing own turboshaft engine for own helicopters, turbojet engines to missiles, turboprop engines to trainers. What Turkey wants to do from TF-X project, is to have a stealth platform whose intellectual and property rights belong to Turkish Republic for not only overall design but also critical components, subsystems and turbofan engine in order not to meet an obstacle when We started to talk export negotiations with states that foreign sources don't like so Tender requirements are arranged to meet such mid term requirements.

In this aspect,
Eurojet multinational consortium with 20,000lb thrust power EJ engine;
1-Don't meet power requirements
2-Having independence on TF-X with Eurojet consortium is impossible. They offered to enhance the thrust of engine around %30 to meet TF-X but Turkish officials most probably requested new engine whose IP rights to be owned by Turkish institutes to be worked with them and Eurojet refused.

Consequently, Turkey underlines freedom from engine manufacturers and A consortium that Germany is inside, will never accept such a move for a Turkish strategic project. Co-development project model is the sole safe solution that Turkey can jointly develop a new engine with selected partner side by side with Turkish engineers to declare own independence. Otherwise, Noone delivers own engines to Turkish institutes to make them use However/Wherever we want. At this schedule, RR is willing to develop a new engine with Turkey's KALE to power up TF-X and Most probably, RR will be charged to officially commence the project, While a powerful engine solution will be selected for national fighter, Until national equivalent will be revealed. It is a true strategy If you ask me. Otherwise, We will keep telling the stories How Germany blocked T-155, Altay, While USA to Atak, Europe to TF-X...etc

 
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@cabatli_53 Turkey IS new player on engine sector. But that doesn't change validity of your arguments.

On the other hand, I have my doubts in how TAEC will develop this engine. SSM awarded Tai 1.3b$ for Tfx, BAE is awarded 100m$, It is safe to assume Aselsan will be awarded with many Avionics development programs but Idk how will TAEC (unknown company/JV) be awarded with development of Turbofan engine development for 5th gen fighter. That is hard sell for SSM. We are talking about a couple billion dollar of R&D?
 
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Turkey is not a new player on engine sector. Industry is officially developing own turboshaft engine for own helicopters, turbojet engines to missiles, turboprop engines to trainers. What Turkey wants to do from TF-X project, is to have a stealth platform whose intellectual and property rights belong to Turkish Republic for not only overall design but also critical components, subsystems and turbofan engine in order not to meet an obstacle when We started to talk export negotiations with states that foreign sources don't like so Tender requirements are arranged to meet such mid term requirements.

In this aspect,
Eurojet multinational consortium with 20,000lb thrust power EJ engine;
1-Don't meet power requirements
2-Having independence on TF-X with Eurojet consortium is impossible. They offered to enhance the thrust of engine around %30 to meet TF-X but Turkish officials most probably requested new engine whose IP rights to be owned by Turkish institutes to be worked with them and Eurojet refused.

Consequently, Turkey underlines freedom from engine manufacturers and A consortium that Germany is inside, will never accept such a move for a Turkish strategic project. Co-development project model is the sole safe solution that Turkey can jointly develop a new engine with selected partner side by side with Turkish engineers to declare own independence. Otherwise, Noone delivers own engines to Turkish institutes to make them use However/Wherever we want. At this schedule, RR is willing to develop a new engine with Turkey's KALE to power up TF-X and Most probably, RR will be charged to officially commence the project, While a powerful engine solution will be selected for national fighter, Until national equivalent will be revealed. It is a true strategy If you ask me. Otherwise, We will keep telling the stories How Germany blocked T-155, Altay, While USA to Atak, Europe to TF-X...etc

I know Turkey has done some work on gas turbines, but I'm sure you know high thrust engines are an entirely different ballgame.
Look at the imperfection of China's billion dollar engines and the slow progress of Indian Kaveri.

RR is now trying to woo Indians for the AMCA project. They outright said that they want to develop engines with IP rights in India.
But I believe that it's only because Kaveri is in advanced stages of getting the Snecma core.

So unless Turkey makes significant strides in higher thrust engines by itself, I believe even RR will keep the meaty metallurgy secrets to themselves.
That's what the West has always done.
 
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@cabatli_53 Turkey IS new player on engine sector. But that doesn't change validity of your arguments.

On the other hand, I have my doubts in how TAEC will develop this engine. SSM awarded Tai 1.3b$ for Tfx, BAE is awarded 100m$, It is safe to assume Aselsan will be awarded with many Avionics development programs but Idk how will TAEC (unknown company/JV) be awarded with development of Turbofan engine development for 5th gen fighter. That is hard sell for SSM. We are talking about a couple billion dollar of R&D?


Indeed new player for design engineering but In terms of manufacturing, KALE, ALP and TEI is producing the most critical sections of gas turbine engines for civilian/military aircraft/helicopters since years and go on. That’s why Turkey needs a partner to design a powerful turbofan.
 
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Guys, please don't derail the topic. Let's focus on the discussion in hand.

@cabatli_53 Turkey IS new player on engine sector. But that doesn't change validity of your arguments.

On the other hand, I have my doubts in how TAEC will develop this engine. SSM awarded Tai 1.3b$ for Tfx, BAE is awarded 100m$, It is safe to assume Aselsan will be awarded with many Avionics development programs but Idk how will TAEC (unknown company/JV) be awarded with development of Turbofan engine development for 5th gen fighter. That is hard sell for SSM. We are talking about a couple billion dollar of R&D?

I think @neosinan makes a good point here but there doesn't seem to be a better option. Home-grown companies that we know and trust don't have the know-how to develop a 30K lbf level turbofan engine. Rolls-Royce certainly has the tech, but we're putting our eggs in a basket that's being held by the Brits, who apparently want to hold us by the balls and milk some money as they depart the EU. If the relations with the UK sour in the next few years, the TFX project will suffer. But it seems that's a risk Ankara is willing to take at this point.

If you're willing to chip out $25, here's a research paper that will teach you everything about RR's XG-40 engine architecture, which the Eurojet EJ200 was based on.

http://gasturbinespower.asmedigitalcollection.asme.org/article.aspx?articleid=1417471

Also, check out this newspaper article from 1988. Wow!

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1988/1988 - 1785.PDF
 
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So it means TFX is gonna get delayed further..maybe after 2030s....that makes China only viable option for Pakistan
 
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@cabatli_53 Can you remove this terrorist scum from forum?

Where did that discussion take place? While people outside our borders are eating eachother with consequences of loosing their home-lands, Someone should kick such seperatist mouths to tell importance of respect to the reality of own republic.
 
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So it means TFX is gonna get delayed further..maybe after 2030s....that makes China only viable option for Pakistan
Too early to determine the exact effect of this (length of delay) but even the worst case scenario wouldn't push it past 2025. As noted in earlier posts, Turkey has established a joint venture with Rolls-Royce to develop engines for the TFX and even that isn't the only option.
 
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Too early to determine the exact effect of this (length of delay) but even the worst case scenario wouldn't push it past 2025. As noted in earlier posts, Turkey has established a joint venture with Rolls-Royce to develop engines for the TFX and even that isn't the only option.
Dear...I fully support TFX and I actually want to see it fly in Pakistani colors..but the fact is we haven't seen any prototype yet...I am not even sure that turkey is going for single or twine engine category ..so a lot of decisions are needed to be made and a lot of work is needed to be done...so 2025 is quite unrealistic timeline here...even if Rolls royce solves the engine issue i believe TFX will fully be operational till 2028-2030.
 
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Wow, brother, that's a pretty bleak picture you draw there if I say so myself. Come on, cheer up. :)

There's no reason to force an indigenous engine for the prototypes. It'll likely be off-the-shelf purchases for the first 5-10 airframes. It's definitely a twin-engine model. Maiden flight is still planned for 2023
 
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So it means TFX is gonna get delayed further..maybe after 2030s....that makes China only viable option for Pakistan

Nothing is known yet since We don’t have any info about which engine manufacturers are coming with which offers. TF-X engine tender worths more than billion $. What we just know is that Eurojet is not inside of tender at present and Turkey wants a new engine that IP rights belong to us. That’s what is known at present.
 
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