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Encounter in Pulwama, 1 militant dead operation still on

Rest in peace.
Another innocent Kashmiri guy killed in fake encounter.
Atacking by grenade makes one Innocent,rip your logic,no wonder your country is having downfall.

And they keep on dying and dying;
Over the hill, under the hill,
In the gutter, on the gutter, beside the gutter;
They just keep dying and dying.

Crossing the fence,climbing over the fence,
Stuck to the fence, fallen face first next to the fence,
They all keep rolling over and dying;

Shot by a gun, Shot by a pistol,
Blown up by the grenade launcher, smoked by the rocket launcher,
Run over by a tank, disintegrated by a BMP,
The poor fellows just keep finding new ways of dying
Dude please grant me rights of this song so that i can rap and upload it on youtube plzplzplzplzplzplz
 
And they keep on dying and dying;
Over the hill, under the hill,
In the gutter, on the gutter, beside the gutter;
They just keep dying and dying.

Crossing the fence,climbing over the fence,
Stuck to the fence, fallen face first next to the fence,
They all keep rolling over and dying;

Shot by a gun, Shot by a pistol,
Blown up by the grenade launcher, smoked by the rocket launcher,
Run over by a tank, disintegrated by a BMP,
The poor fellows just keep finding new ways of dying
That looks like the policy to ordinary kashmiris rather than militants. Are you sure such a policy will help India

I don't know whether esteemed members from the other side know that these so called freedom have killed innocent kids in Jammu and Kashmir! I wonder why don't they come and say Indian dog shot dead by so called freedom fighters like they say when an Indian soldiers die!!3-Year-Old Shot Dead Along With Father, a Former Terrorist, in Kashmir - NDTV
Kashmiris have blamed this killing on armed gangs hired by India-not at Kashmiri militants.
 
I don't know whether esteemed members from the other side know that these so called freedom have killed innocent kids in Jammu and Kashmir! I wonder why don't they come and say Indian dog shot dead by so called freedom fighters like they say when an Indian soldiers die!!3-Year-Old Shot Dead Along With Father, a Former Terrorist, in Kashmir - NDTV


Indians take note, this is how you construct a credible counter-argument, use of inappropriate language will result in bans.

Pakistani members refrain from one liners, sloganeering and using urdu.
 
That looks like the policy to ordinary kashmiris rather than militants. Are you sure such a policy will help India

Let me assure you, there are enough evidences of terrorists crossing the borders. With footage available in public domain, there is no point in questioning the fact that terrorists are trying to cross the border into India.
An estimated 60K plus terrorists have been killed by Indian security forces, till date, since insurgency started. Pakistan has been trying to win over that piece of land for about 7 decades with multiple wars and skirmishes fought over it.

That makes it comparable with Operation Overlord, or Allied invasion or France over through the English channel ?

That also makes the endeavour one of the biggest failures in the history of mankind ? Because, so far, India has only gained territory and not lost a single inch to Pakistan ?
 
Awantipora shooting: Now police identify deceased as Muzamil Dar Earlier, he was identified as Jehangir Ganai, an LeT militant, who police said was active since last 20 days
Police in Jammu and Kashmir Tuesday said that the man killed during a brief shooting in Awantipora area of Pulwama district was Muzamil Dar of Shopian.
Earlier, he was identified as Jehangir Ganai, an LeT militant, who police said was active since last 20 days.
However, sources said that the parents of Ganai refused that the man killed was their son.
Superintendent of Police Awantipora Irshad Ahmad told Greater Kashmir that the deceased was actually Muzamil Dar, son of Habibullah Dar, a resident of Chatripora Vehal of Shopian district.
Sources said that Dar was an auto rickshaw driver who according to his family left with his vehicle yesterday evening but didn’t return.
Police said that militants fired grenades at an SOG party who had laid a cordon in Kawni village, triggering a shootout in which one militant was killed..
 
Let me assure you, there are enough evidences of terrorists crossing the borders. With footage available in public domain, there is no point in questioning the fact that terrorists are trying to cross the border into India.
An estimated 60K plus terrorists have been killed by Indian security forces, till date, since insurgency started. Pakistan has been trying to win over that piece of land for about 7 decades with multiple wars and skirmishes fought over it.

That makes it comparable with Operation Overlord, or Allied invasion or France over through the English channel ?

That also makes the endeavour one of the biggest failures in the history of mankind ? Because, so far, India has only gained territory and not lost a single inch to Pakistan ?
I respectfully disagree. Blaming Pakistan which has had such a weak policy is shifting blame from poor policies at home against Kashmiris and other muslims. Pakistan has had a very tough policy on immigration and protection of oppressed muslims worldwide. For example my grandfather from my mothers side was not only just not invited by us who moved but also not given honorary citizenship for being one of the biggest proponents of Pakistan and Pakistanis while staying in Lucknow. He married almost each and every daughter to those who migrated or on that side. Such was his love for Pakistan.

India knows a lot of us Muslims feel we have no real link to India and Hindutvas specially though we can live with ordinary hindus. This is why india has adopted a policy of trying to make us forget our original roots.
 
I respectfully disagree. Blaming Pakistan which has had such a weak policy is shifting blame from poor policies at home against Kashmiris and other muslims. Pakistan has had a very tough policy on immigration and protection of oppressed muslims worldwide. For example my grandfather from my mothers side was not only just not invited by us who moved but also not given honorary citizenship for being one of the biggest proponents of Pakistan and Pakistanis while staying in Lucknow. He married almost each and every daughter to those who migrated or on that side. Such was his love for Pakistan.

India knows a lot of us Muslims feel we have no real link to India and Hindutvas specially though we can live with ordinary hindus. This is why india has adopted a policy of trying to make us forget our original roots.
I am happy for your gradfather that he found his solace. But we are talking about Kashmir here and so far, I am unable to relate that with what you are saying.
 
Let me assure you, there are enough evidences of terrorists crossing the borders. With footage available in public domain, there is no point in questioning the fact that terrorists are trying to cross the border into India.
An estimated 60K plus terrorists have been killed by Indian security forces, till date, since insurgency started. Pakistan has been trying to win over that piece of land for about 7 decades with multiple wars and skirmishes fought over it.

That makes it comparable with Operation Overlord, or Allied invasion or France over through the English channel ?

That also makes the endeavour one of the biggest failures in the history of mankind ? Because, so far, India has only gained territory and not lost a single inch to Pakistan ?

The point most people to seem to miss is that all this terrorism and infiltration stopped being about "freedom of kashmir" long long back - 1965 was the last serious attempt. All subsequent actions serve another purpose - prime example is Kargil.

It has to do with politics, diplomacy and economics of containing India.

Think about it a bit my friend. What has insurgency of Kashmir costed India

1. Militarily - India has to maintain an very large army numerically as a preventive measure. It costs us dearly. Delays modernization. A relatively smaller army of 500k - 750k would be a lot leaner, meaner and responsive instead of sluggish and ill equipped one we have now.

2. Economically - No need to elaborate on how much Pakistan and Kashmir specific forces costs us. It diverts essential money from social sector and infrastructure reforms urgently needed to raise the standard of living.

3. Diplomatically - Kashmir and the human rights issues which are absolutely inevitable despite IA practicing utmost restraint and minimum force. They do have to kill terrorists afterall and co-lateral damage will be there. This gives a platform to adversaries to block India at every turn when it aspires to get what it deserves like UNSC seat. Also provides an issue for Islamic countries to not support India whole heartedly in many international forums.

4. Moral - Due to the combination of above issues which has stunted the growth of India our citizens lack the confidence and self- assertiveness necessary to rise from their current status. Many of us specially villages far far from Kashmir pay the price indirectly. Kashmir based terrorism has it's ramification from Mumbai to New Delhi. It drives Hindus against Muslims. Creates social disharmony and discontent.

Pakistan realistically speaking has no even an iota of chance of gaining a single inch of Kashmir so why persist with this folly?

1. Neighbor's Envy.- Doesn't want India to become de-facto power in the region - All such countries ultimately do coerce and impose their will on the smaller and weaker regions

2. External Influences

a. China and India are natural competitors and with billion plus population and limited re-sources sooner or later it is going to be a zero sum game between them. So they do what India would have done had it been in it's position.

b. USA - With USA it was Indian closeness with USSR and cold- war factors which is changing now. It would take another decade for State Dept to shed it's anti India baggage when the old Pakistan hands are either retired or dead.

c. Gulf - They love playing both sides. Although religious fanatics among them can't see any other faith prosper hence the passive support to Pakistan to meddle in India and Kashmir

Solution

1. Stabler Pakistan - It is Pakistan's internal issues and weaknesses vis-a-vis India which makes it insecure. Probably a more prosperous and stable Pakistan would be content with what it has got.

2. Leadership - We need courageous and strong leadership in central in both parties who can with stand the pressure from fanatics on their side and have courage to give up their stated postures of Atoot Ang and Fort of Islam (Thanks Icarus for terminology) and convert LOC to IB.

Regards
 
The point most people to seem to miss is that all this terrorism and infiltration stopped being about "freedom of kashmir" long long back - 1965 was the last serious attempt. All subsequent actions serve another purpose - prime example is Kargil.

It has to do with politics, diplomacy and economics of containing India.

Think about it a bit my friend. What has insurgency of Kashmir costed India

1. Militarily - India has to maintain an very large army numerically as a preventive measure. It costs us dearly. Delays modernization. A relatively smaller army of 500k - 750k would be a lot leaner, meaner and responsive instead of sluggish and ill equipped one we have now.

2. Economically - No need to elaborate on how much Pakistan and Kashmir specific forces costs us. It diverts essential money from social sector and infrastructure reforms urgently needed to raise the standard of living.

3. Diplomatically - Kashmir and the human rights issues which are absolutely inevitable despite IA practicing utmost restraint and minimum force. They do have to kill terrorists afterall and co-lateral damage will be there. This gives a platform to adversaries to block India at every turn when it aspires to get what it deserves like UNSC seat. Also provides an issue for Islamic countries to not support India whole heartedly in many international forums.

4. Moral - Due to the combination of above issues which has stunted the growth of India our citizens lack the confidence and self- assertiveness necessary to rise from their current status. Many of us specially villages far far from Kashmir pay the price indirectly. Kashmir based terrorism has it's ramification from Mumbai to New Delhi. It drives Hindus against Muslims. Creates social disharmony and discontent.

Pakistan realistically speaking has no even an iota of chance of gaining a single inch of Kashmir so why persist with this folly?

1. Neighbor's Envy.- Doesn't want India to become de-facto power in the region - All such countries ultimately do coerce and impose their will on the smaller and weaker regions

2. External Influences

a. China and India are natural competitors and with billion plus population and limited re-sources sooner or later it is going to be a zero sum game between them. So they do what India would have done had it been in it's position.

b. USA - With USA it was Indian closeness with USSR and cold- war factors which is changing now. It would take another decade for State Dept to shed it's anti India baggage when the old Pakistan hands are either retired or dead.

c. Gulf - They love playing both sides. Although religious fanatics among them can't see any other faith prosper hence the passive support to Pakistan to meddle in India and Kashmir

Solution

1. Stabler Pakistan - It is Pakistan's internal issues and weaknesses vis-a-vis India which makes it insecure. Probably a more prosperous and stable Pakistan would be content with what it has got.

2. Leadership - We need courageous and strong leadership in central in both parties who can with stand the pressure from fanatics on their side and have courage to give up their stated postures of Atoot Ang and Fort of Islam (Thanks Icarus for terminology) and convert LOC to IB.

Regards


honestly, I stopped reading after the 4th point, and I'm normally the kind of person, who insists on reading all the points and then doing it all over again in reverse order.

Indian army would have spent the same amount of money and resources anyways. It's the system of budgeting! Surely I wont have to tell you about that!
The rest was forced upon us and it is not like we have a control over that. It's a different story that gradually we are getting into a position that we will be able to control and influence how much our adversary gets to spend.
 
honestly, I stopped reading after the 4th point, and I'm normally the kind of person, who insists on reading all the points and then doing it all over again in reverse order.

Indian army would have spent the same amount of money and resources anyways. It's the system of budgeting! Surely I wont have to tell you about that!
The rest was forced upon us and it is not like we have a control over that. It's a different story that gradually we are getting into a position that we will be able to control and influence how much our adversary gets to spend.

It's alright - I though about dealing with the why not how.

You are right about budgets - but each item has a priority in a budget. Right Now the MO is or should be - Keep aside a sum for defense and then go down the list, this sum could have been smaller is my point.
 
It's alright - I though about dealing with the why not how.

You are right about budgets - but each item has a priority in a budget. Right Now the MO is or should be - Keep aside a sum for defense and then go down the list, this sum could have been smaller is my point.
This sum was always supposed to grow, which is coherent with India's economic progress.
 

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