Embrace India, not Pakistan, says US columnist

[s6demon]

My dear bro you seriously lacks knowledge. Do i need to say anymore. just google it and you will find at least 4-5 news about it. I guess google is best to use for next one year to improve your world knowledge. no offense please.

Please read below point carefully.
a. why US needs NATO in afgan and in all war.

Let me ask you what friends means? this is the definition of friends.they give weapons we give space and other technology. besides educational and cultural exchange.

In the case where you say Zardari asked China help on Kashmir, i do lack knowledge. so please do post some links for my knowledge.

U.S. needs NATO to carry the burdon of Afghan war because it simply is beneficial for the U.S. if NATO foots some of the bill and takes pressure of the U.S. secondly U.S. has two wars going on and forces spread all over the world so another reason to take help. and thirdly, NATO isnt REALLY a fair participant of the war is it? Italy has what, 15 troops? thats not really a NATO war, is it?

Israel does need India to buy its weapons but the reason this "relationship," not friendship, is working is because to rest of the world sees Israel for what it is, a murderous country which is hell bend on opressing the Palestinians and a state sponsor of terror. A country like that has no future.

 

[deckingraj]

Those sanctions happened because another country dared to do what u.s. and britain and france and russia and china and israel and southafrica had already done in the past, become a nuclear power.

Here you go....I know those are double standards but thats what the world opinion is....Now when Pakistan went nuclear they very well knew the consequences....So why blame US for it???

even if in your mind that warrents sanctions and the u.s. refused to sell the F16s. why then did they not return the money? and when then would they charge fees on the planes they werent going to sell us? i asked all of this stuff in my previous posts. you cant get away with it.

I am not getting away with it...I don't know why a post from an Indian on a matter associated with Pakistan is taken the other way around(vice-versa is also true).....All i am looking for was a healthy discussion...Anyways the way i understand is once you place order these machines are made....Lot of effort and money is involved...So its not like you place an order...then do something which is against the foreign policy of so-called ally and then expect return of money...and that too when you have negligible leverage on the supplier...This is harsh but reality my friend....So there is no back stabbing...Let me give you an example...These days US-India bonhomie is on the rise...We signed a nuclear deal with them..Now for some reason we choose to have another nuclear test than would it be right for me to say US backstabbed because they put sanctions on India???

there is no need to have a judge or a jury to know the history. you and i are both knowledgable enough to know the REAL history which cannot be changed.

I did not mean to have a judge...To know what were the circumstances you got to involve some representation of the third party as well...They will bring some valuable information...


P.S : I am in a little hurry..So may be did not articulate my message well...Hope you will get the idea...Will carry on when time permit....

 

[Naradmuni]

Really? And may I ask who these "everyone" puppeteers are?

Only time will tell who holds the strings to what. I, for very many reasons, do not share your appreciation of the situation.

The puppeteers are :- USA, Saudi, China

 

[Storm Force]

USA has its choice.

Pakistan a [poor developing country struggling with concept of democracy and run by a combination of mlitary generals and their secret service. Pakistan is also nation that calls china (usa long term no1 adversary) its ally..
Its currently relying on USA grant aid to prop up its ailing eonomy and requires USA military aid on tap FOR FREE..

USA other option in this region is INDIA.

The regions most powrful nation in terms of industrial/financial might.

Rising to become a top 5 economic power.

WILL buy (not want fee) $$ billions of dollars of USA arms .

$ will provde a billion ++ market for USA EXPORTS.

Is a democracy rather than dictatorship

and is a long term adversary to china just like usa.

WHO WUD YOU HAVE AS ALLY ???

 

[stax]

I think both Pakistan and India are allies considered by US currently.But now Pakistan is helping US to attack terrorists in his territory.Many Pakistani soldiers and innocent residents lost their lives for the "US" war.Can the money given by US bring these lives back? If the columnist criticizes Pakistan, he should go to the front of the anti-terror and contribute his life to fight against terrorists. Otherwise, he should shut up!

 

[illuminatus]

USA has its choice.

Pakistan a [poor developing country struggling with concept of democracy and run by a combination of mlitary generals and their secret service. Pakistan is also nation that calls china (usa long term no1 adversary) its ally..
Its currently relying on USA grant aid to prop up its ailing eonomy and requires USA military aid on tap FOR FREE..

USA other option in this region is INDIA.

The regions most powrful nation in terms of industrial/financial might.

Rising to become a top 5 economic power.

WILL buy (not want fee) $$ billions of dollars of USA arms .

$ will provde a billion ++ market for USA EXPORTS.

Is a democracy rather than dictatorship

and is a long term adversary to china just like usa.

WHO WUD YOU HAVE AS ALLY ???

What a load of unsubstantiated garbage. Pakistan isn't poor, but has useless leaders. Learn to differentiate between that. Pakistan is a very resource rich country. Just because the useless leaders don't have the ability to extract these resources for the benefit of the people doesn't necessarily imply that Pakistan is poor in any way. Also, geographically Pakistan is a key country in the region. Again, Pakistan is struggling with democracy due to the negligence of poor and corrupt political and dictatorial leaders that have looted this country for their own benefit. Then, of course, we have a history of outside interference from the likes of India and the US. How can anyone expect a country to prosper and make full use of its potential in such circumstances? First, Pakistan needs honest and patriotic leaders that can provide the opportunities for the country to flourish. Fortunately, Pakistan has no shortage of capable people that can lift the country out of bad omens.

Firstly, Pakistan is being paid for the services that it's delivering in the illegitimate WoT. Let me repeat, Pakistan is being paid in the form reimbursements for the expenses that it's making by fighting US war. If that's what you call surviving on military aid you need to get your head examined. Secondly, Pakistan is paying for any military hardware that it gets from the US such as the recent F-16 deal. This isn't free military aid as you're falsely accusing it to be. Pakistan relies on Chinese assistance in the field of defence matters. Pakistani and Chinese relations are based on mutual respect and trust. That isn't the case with the US slapping embargoes and backstabbing Pakistan from time to time.

In the WoT the Americans don't have a choice, but to rely on Pakistan due to geographical proximity factor with Afghanistan. Therefore, the argument that the US should embrace India is totally farcical and irrelevant in this sense. This ridiculous idea is being floated around by conspiracy theorists in order to create confusion and panic. As far as Indian contribution is concerned, the US has already teamed up with India in Afghanistan. The Indian consulates across the border are operating with full US blessing. Though, the US fully realizes that it's not so easy to alienate Pakistan in this war. The Americans and Nato forces heavily rely on Pakistani transit routes for their supplies. The Americans also rely on Pakistan Army fighting on the other side of the border for any success in Afghanistan. The Americans would be shooting their own foot by withdrawing any cooperation with Pakistan. India can be of no use to any genuine US success in Afghanistan as opposed to Pakistani collaboration. Pakistan has during the Cold War assisted US in the war against the former USSR. Yet, Pakistanis got stabbed in their backs when the Americans left everyone to rot for themselves. The salient question arises, why should Pakistan rely on such an unreliable ally? Thus, kudos to Pakistan for allying with China.

The US is already in bed with India. The Americans don't hide it under the carpet so to speak. What else proof does anyone need after the nuke deal? For you to hold such a lengthy plea on this supposedly match made in heaven is therefore a total waste of precious time and energy. Also, get your facts right. India is one of the developing nations of this region. China is actually the number one developing nation in this region both financial and industrial wise. Chinese trade versus Indian trade with the EU and US is testimony of this fact. Comparing 21st century China with 21st century India is like comparing apples with oranges. There's no comparison between China and India. Mentioning the two in the same breath is a deception of the first order. China is light years ahead of India in every imaginable way. Let the Indians first properly feed and house their hundreds and millions of below poverty alienated citizens.

India a democracy? Give me a break. India might be a democracy on paper, but in reality it has light years ahead before it can even belong in the category of civilized countries. I'm not going into any details regarding Indian democracy record, but the human rights situation in that country for instance speaks volumes.

The situation is not as black and white as you and the short-sighted author of the article want everyone to believe it to be.

 

[Naradmuni]

What a load of garbage. Pakistan isn't poor, but has useless leaders. Pakistan is a very resource rich country.

Either it is you leaders, or India, or Israel or Afghanistan or USA, etc who is the cause of trouble, isnt it?? You have a sufficiently large number of culprits to blame, in the list.

I think pakistanis need to get out of the denial now. Its time to face the fact that, Pakistani state under the influence of its Army wasted two complete decades for matching/ countering /destabilizing / point scoring / fighting, India.

The same period could have otherwise utilised for achieving economic development, education etc. This is exactly the cause of all pakistan's problem today ie, the short visioned policies of Pakistani army dictators to engage in low intensity conflicts with India, supporting jehadi outfits, radicalizing education, crazy defence spending, kargil intrusions, weakening of democratic institutions and what not.

Hope u get my point.

 

[illuminatus]

Either it is you leaders, or India, or Israel or Afghanistan or USA, etc who is the cause of trouble, isnt it?? You have a sufficiently large number of culprits to blame, in the list.

I think pakistanis need to get out of the denial now. Its time to face the fact that, Pakistani state under the influence of its Army wasted two complete decades for matching/ countering /destabilizing / point scoring / fighting, India.

The same period could have otherwise utilised for achieving economic development, education etc. This is exactly the cause of all pakistan's problem today ie, the short visioned policies of Pakistani army dictators to engage in low intensity conflicts with India, supporting jehadi outfits, radicalizing education, crazy defence spending, kargil intrusions, weakening of democratic institutions and what not.

Hope u get my point.

You don't need to act like the devils advocate of the whole Pakistani nation. The Pakistanis know the difference between a lie and the truth. Therefore, most Pakistanis are also fully able to differentiate between who their true ally and enemy is. Having said that, all Pakistanis realize what a complicated mess their leaders and other factors have got them into.

Certainly, some dictators and so-called democratic champions have ruined Pakistan. Who is denying that? You may re-read my previous post as I've clearly stated who is to blame.

Concatenating Indian sponsored terror in Pakistan with bad leadership delivered by various political and dictatorial leaders over the past few decades is a blatant attempt to distort the reality. These are two separate issues and as such cannot be overs implied in such a manner. The Pakistanis realize that they need to confront both Indian aggression (which is a dire reality) as well as the menace of terrorism etc.

 

[Storm Force]

In europe where i live and beath every minute I can tell you all

Pakistan,s image as a credible long term ally or indeed trustful partner be it politically or in terms of trade has been ruined.

These individuals have ruined your nation.

London bombers
Islamic radicals being trained in Pakistan.
ISI links to terror in india
Your internal war
military generals running your country

Has given pakistan a very poor image. Many people feel its a failed state.

Worse stil you main ally rather than USA is CHINA

another closed sercretive nation although a giant superpower

THIS is the real situation as seen from western eyes.

You can blame who you want "its not good a situation" for pakistanis

 

[stax]

In europe where i live and beath every minute I can tell you all

Pakistan,s image as a credible long term ally or indeed trustful partner be it politically or in terms of trade has been ruined.

These individuals have ruined your nation.

London bombers
Islamic radicals being trained in Pakistan.
ISI links to terror in india
Your internal war
military generals running your country

Has given pakistan a very poor image. Many people feel its a failed state.

Worse stil you main ally rather than USA is CHINA

another closed sercretive nation although a giant superpower

THIS is the real situation as seen from western eyes.

You can blame who you want "its not good a situation" for pakistanis

Why do you European keep blind and have such a stupid mind?
Do you know how many Pakistani died in this anti-terror war?Much more than people die in London bombers!
Why do Pakistan fight against the terrorists? Why is Pakistan economy being ruined?Because of this anti-terror war! Because terrorists are threaten to people in European and US, Pakistan try to protect your life!
The main reason Europeans keep blind on Pakistan is because their democracy and humanrights are only for Europeans, don't care Pakistanis death and feeling, so selfish.

 

[Hulk]

Why do you European keep blind and have such a stupid mind?
Do you know how many Pakistani died in this anti-terror war?Much more than people die in London bombers!
Why do Pakistan fight against the terrorists? Why is Pakistan economy being ruined?Because of this anti-terror war! Because terrorists are threaten to people in European and US, Pakistan try to protect your life!
The main reason Europeans keep blind on Pakistan is because their democracy and humanrights are only for Europeans, don't care Pakistanis death and feeling, so selfish.

If your son is spoiled father and mother have to face the consequences. Ask this question to PA, ISI and GOP. Why did they created safe heaven, any terrorist was welcome. I have hardly seen anyone in world sympethizing with Pakistan after any attack.

 

[stax]

If your son is spoiled father and mother have to face the consequences. Ask this question to PA, ISI and GOP. Why did they created safe heaven, any terrorist was welcome. I have hardly seen anyone in world sympethizing with Pakistan after any attack.

Every kind person in the world sympathizes with Pakistan after the terror attack! Every Chinese feels sad for every soldier and resident died in the attack! They are innocent and not terrorists!
Do you know that why BinLadin and Taliban have such terrorists power? Since the support of US! US supported them to attack USSR. After USSR collapsed, US withdraw all the support! Since they were no use to US! What a selfish country! Why don't anyone blame US?

 

[Hulk]

Every kind person in the world sympathizes with Pakistan after the terror attack! Every Chinese feels sad for every soldier and resident died in the attack! They are innocent and not terrorists!
Do you know that why BinLadin and Taliban have such terrorists power? Since the support of US! US supported them to attack USSR. After USSR collapsed, US withdraw all the support! Since they were no use to US! What a selfish country! Why don't anyone blame US?

Afghanistan was invaded by USSR and US helped them win over them. US has no obligation to fix it's problem, it's incorrect to point fingures at them. Taliban is mostly Afghan and Pakistani, so both countries should fix problem if their countrymen have created. Did Afghan refused help from US or did they said you need to clean it once war is over, same applies to Pakistan.

 

[XYON]

That kind of proves your intellect when you use words like worthless for any country forget Country as great as India... So US want to use India as its whore agasint China...hmmmm... Its been almost a decade since India and US started moving closer... Please use your intellectual level and suggest us anything viz-a-viz China that India did as per US influence???

When we did not join any camps in the 62 years odd history of independent India, even at the peak of Cold War how on this earth you think someone can pitch us against someone....Please note that even though our adversary pakistan had joined club under US umbrella india still pursued NAM....Here is an expert from Indo-Russia realtions history


India's nonalignment enabled it to accept Soviet support in areas of strategic congruence, as in disputes with Pakistan and China, without subscribing to Soviet global policies or proposals for Asian collective security.


India - Russia

Thanks for rating my intellect!! and that too coming from an Indian! very credible indeed!

India frankly has not been that important over the years to join any 'camp'. Your government would have loved to have the US forces operate out of your neighborhood into Afghanistan, but that also did not come to a head as the US preferred, as always, to deal with Pakistan. The world simply see's you as an overly populated Rabbit-Land where they can sell low value items such as, Coke, Pepsi and perhaps a Cadbury here and there and oh yes, your populace makes it a good call center environment. India is neither strategically placed or historically inclined to influence and regional politics. The Great Game of super powers has always been played in the arena which is now Pakistan.

 

[vsdoc]

So please do believe your own bollywood showing tits after a tits of your Indian women to the entire world convincing that India is probably the best in the entire world!! The west is particularly enticed by such ads whihc really give Incredible India a whole new meaning. Just ask the Thai's on what the US soldiers did in Bangkok during the Vietnam War!!

Buddy you need to learn some basic respect for women ..... especially as a pakistani representing pakistan on a pakistani forum, in front of the whole world.

Especially with the whole world knowing your reputation of treating your own women behind those yards of black cloth you cover them with.

Does it make you feel very macho or does it make you feel very educated or does it make you feel moralistically superior to pass comments on Indian women as you have above?

Or do you feel safe in the fact that Indians making similar comments about your Pakistani women would earn instant bans?

Why go so far as to ask Thais about what US soldiers did in Bangkok buddy?

Wouldnt it be much easier asking forum members here what US soldiers are doing in Islamabad and Lahore and Karachi and other pakistani cities instead ..... right now as we speak?

Cheers, disgusted Doc