Electricity fuel: Govt opts to replace coal-run power plants with LNG

[That Guy]

Expensive to set up and for which we have little money. Even Germany produces only some 30% of its electricity through solar/wind (Afaik), despite being a super rich country.

We're looking for short term cheap relief, which doesn't mean we take Pakistan's environment to trash.

Again, read the article and do a bit of research on coal vs gas.

Hence why I said coal. Both have their advantages, but for lower middle income economies, coal should be the first step, not gas. When Pakistan saves enough money, perhaps then it would be more viable to go for something more clean. Baby steps are required.

By the way, I actually had to study energy sources for school, so I do know some amount about this subject.

 

[Shah01]

I would personally want a mix; that is least 20% of the electricity generation based on coal fired power plants. Especially since sooner or later, Thar coal would be exploited and if we had coal fired plants already in operation; it would be easy to switch the same to Thar lignite. But in Pakistan there are few with long term perspective. So be it.

Agreed. Think long term and plan for it. Invest in hydro, solar, coal and nuclear (25% each and have extra capacity for future growth). Replace the current power plants which run on furnace oil to LNG.

 

[niaz]

Actually, one thing I like to correct here, solar and wind are expensive to set up, their long term costs are next to nothing, and are much easier to maintain.

Why should Pakistan invest in coal? Because it has little financial incentives to do otherwise.

Coal.

There are many new coal powered plants coming up especially in Germany where they are shutting down nuclear plants and replacing the same with lignite burning power plants. Pakistan has huge amount of Lignite at Thar; do we only want to boast about it but never intend to use it? Where else would one use brown coal on a large scale except in power generation?

Besides, there is always supply risk involved in imported fuel. Russian gas has been piped to EU countries even during the cold war era. However, currently there is a major threat to gas supplies because of economic sanctions on Russia

One can never completely rule out future political differences with Iran, Turkmenistan & Qatar. Must we always be so short sighted and completely ignore this risk. We are sitting on 85-billion tons of Lignite at Thar. Roughly 40% cost of power generation is the fuel, if nothing else we would save FE. Therefore if we set up coal power plants now we would be able to use local resource as and when Thar coal is exploited.

Solar.

GOP should encourage, even subsidize solar power for homes and offices but large scale power plants? Not in my humble opinion.

Solar power is ideal in a sunny country for individual homes and places where electricity produced is used in-house. Please understand that efficiency of solar panels is only about 25 to 30%. Let us say that you have 100 MW solar panels. Photo voltaic cells would only be produce 100 MW when the sunlight at its maximum intensity. Production reduces in the morning and in the evening and zero at night. Over the year it is seldom more than 25% or 25 MW.
Nevertheless you must install transmission lines for 100 MW capacity. Thus you need to invest in 100 MW solar panels as well as 100MW transmission system to get 25 MW power out of it. That is why solar power is still the most expensive method of power generation.

Pakistan is critically short of power. By all means have LNG based power plants as well but as a policy, there has to be a power generation mix in country for long term energy balance and reducing risk of greater dependency on imported fuel.

 

[Cheetah786]

Simply laughable Retards at the driving seat.

Agreed. Gas fired combined cycle power plants are far more efficient, cheaper to build and more environmentally friendly. However a power plant has 30 year life, who can predict what would happen? Oil & gas prices can as easily go back up.

I would personally want a mix; that is least 20% of the electricity generation based on coal fired power plants. Especially since sooner or later, Thar coal would be exploited and if we had coal fired plants already in operation; it would be easy to switch the same to Thar lignite. But in Pakistan there are few with long term perspective. So be it.

Niaz Bhai When we have uneducated retards dumb as a doornail bureaucrats and politicians at work we will be lucky if by the time this is done we are generating .00000000000001 MW of extra power.

 

[Shah01]

Solar power is ideal in a sunny country for individual homes and places where electricity produced is used in-house.

In UK/Germany people have grid tied systems where they sell the electricity to the grid. No need for extra transmission system. If introduced in Pakistan this will compliment the grid and help reduce the shortage in the short term and may even reduce tariff price for people.

 

[black-hawk_101]

ISLAMABAD:
Addressing the acute energy crisis, the federal government has suggested abandoning the plan of developing two coal-based power plants in exchange for liquefied natural gas (LNG) power plants, which will be established in Punjab.
The proposal recommends fixing the upfront tariff for 3,600-megawatt LNG-based plants at Rs8.85 per kilowatt hour (kWh).
Giving a detailed briefing, a senior official of the Water and Power Ministry said that gas-fired power plants can be established in two to three years.
“LNG prices across the globe are coming down which provides an opportunity to Pakistan to set up LNG-based power plants.”

The Ministry of Water and Power has proposed Rs8.85 per unit upfront tariff to the National Electric Power Regulatory Authority (Nepra) for the LNG-based power plants. The official added that the “government will work towards establishing LNG-based power plants in Punjab.”

“By providing upfront tariff, we have kept the field open for power plants. It is up to the investors to establish energy plants whatever capacity they desire, so that it is not felt that the government is supporting a specific party or company,” he added.

Earlier, the government intended to establish three imported coal-fired power plants in Punjab but now the focus is on LNG. The official further stated that the government has replaced two imported coal-fired plants with LNG plants. However, one imported coal-fired plant in Sahiwal is being pursued by the government.
“The Punjab government, the Ministry of Railways and the Chinese agreed that heavy investment is needed at the port to handle coal and transport it to the plant, in addition to environmental issues,” he said.
Another argument was that the price of imported coal is very close to LNG so priority should be given to LNG as these plants will be established in a reduced time.

According to the official, since work is already under way to construct an LNG pipeline in Punjab, it would be easier to develop LNG-fired plants at load centres in place of imported coal power plants.
“Work on LNG power plants and LNG pipeline will progress simultaneously,” he said.
Three power distribution companies of Punjab, Lahore Electric Supply Company (Lesco), Gujranwala Electric Power Company (Gepco) and Faisalabad Electric Supply Company (Fesco) face shortfall in supplies.
“If LNG power plants are established in load centres of Fesco, Lesco and Gepco, losses in the transmission system and the transportation cost will be minimised,” he said.

According to the official, the government has started replacing old meters with smart meters in the areas covered by Multan and Peshawar electric supply companies as pilot projects. In the next phase, smart meters will be installed in the areas covered by Islamabad and Lahore electric companies. These meters will control the power load and also run on installation of cards.

In reply to a question, sources said that a separate mechanism will be formulated to ensure payment for imported LNG through an Escrow account.

The Ministry of Water and Power is not in the loop with regard to LNG to be imported by the Ministry of Petroleum. However, prevalent prices of LNG at the global level are around 8.5 cents per million British thermal units (mmbtu).

According to the information provided by the ministry, China is the only country which has shown interest in coal-fired power plants whereas investors across the globe are interested in gas-based power plants.
The official said that the amount of circular debt is Rs254 billion due to the steps taken by the Ministry of Water and Power and Ministry of Finance with the latter arranging Rs65 billion for the power sector.
He claimed that the Ministry of Water and Power owes Rs131 billion to Pakistan State Oil (PSO).
The government intends to bridge the gap between demand and supply in the shortest possible time and this can only be done through the establishment of gas-fired power plants.
Published in The Express Tribune, February 5th, 2015.
Like Business on Facebook, follow @TribuneBiz on Twitter to stay informed and join in the conversation.

punjab has coal reserve use them........

 

[niaz]

In UK/Germany people have grid tied systems where they sell the electricity to the grid. No need for extra transmission system. If introduced in Pakistan this will compliment the grid and help reduce the shortage in the short term and may even reduce tariff price for people.

I looked at the scheme myself and invited an engineer from the vendors for a quote. When examined closely; there is a limit as to how many panels you are allowed by the Borough Planning Dep’t and your roof area. Based on the average number of sunshine hours (experience factor) of the area; in reality there would be very little extra electricity left over that could be sold. I was not entitled for any subsidy and the Payback period of the investment was more than 12 years, thus I decided against it.

I have a friend who installed PVC panels in Islamabad. It turns out cheaper than running diesel generators ever so often but still far more expensive than buying electricity. Since my friend has business in Dubai; he could afford the initial investment. Should GOP encourage solar panel installation thru a subsidy and say about a million homes have solar panels installed; even though there would be very little surplus electricity to be sold back, demand on the national grid would be reduced significantly.

As you can see I have suggested large scale PVC (photo voltaic cell) panels for homes & offices. I am however not in favour of the solar parks such as one being set up in the Cholistan desert with great fanfare. You would need miles & miles of transmission lines to connect it to the national grid. Additionally, during the sandstorms cells would be covered by dust and a work force would be needed to dust off the solar panels else production capacity would be seriously affected.

 

[Echo_419]

ISLAMABAD:
Addressing the acute energy crisis, the federal government has suggested abandoning the plan of developing two coal-based power plants in exchange for liquefied natural gas (LNG) power plants, which will be established in Punjab.
The proposal recommends fixing the upfront tariff for 3,600-megawatt LNG-based plants at Rs8.85 per kilowatt hour (kWh).
Giving a detailed briefing, a senior official of the Water and Power Ministry said that gas-fired power plants can be established in two to three years.
“LNG prices across the globe are coming down which provides an opportunity to Pakistan to set up LNG-based power plants.”

The Ministry of Water and Power has proposed Rs8.85 per unit upfront tariff to the National Electric Power Regulatory Authority (Nepra) for the LNG-based power plants. The official added that the “government will work towards establishing LNG-based power plants in Punjab.”

“By providing upfront tariff, we have kept the field open for power plants. It is up to the investors to establish energy plants whatever capacity they desire, so that it is not felt that the government is supporting a specific party or company,” he added.

Earlier, the government intended to establish three imported coal-fired power plants in Punjab but now the focus is on LNG. The official further stated that the government has replaced two imported coal-fired plants with LNG plants. However, one imported coal-fired plant in Sahiwal is being pursued by the government.
“The Punjab government, the Ministry of Railways and the Chinese agreed that heavy investment is needed at the port to handle coal and transport it to the plant, in addition to environmental issues,” he said.
Another argument was that the price of imported coal is very close to LNG so priority should be given to LNG as these plants will be established in a reduced time.

According to the official, since work is already under way to construct an LNG pipeline in Punjab, it would be easier to develop LNG-fired plants at load centres in place of imported coal power plants.
“Work on LNG power plants and LNG pipeline will progress simultaneously,” he said.
Three power distribution companies of Punjab, Lahore Electric Supply Company (Lesco), Gujranwala Electric Power Company (Gepco) and Faisalabad Electric Supply Company (Fesco) face shortfall in supplies.
“If LNG power plants are established in load centres of Fesco, Lesco and Gepco, losses in the transmission system and the transportation cost will be minimised,” he said.

According to the official, the government has started replacing old meters with smart meters in the areas covered by Multan and Peshawar electric supply companies as pilot projects. In the next phase, smart meters will be installed in the areas covered by Islamabad and Lahore electric companies. These meters will control the power load and also run on installation of cards.

In reply to a question, sources said that a separate mechanism will be formulated to ensure payment for imported LNG through an Escrow account.

The Ministry of Water and Power is not in the loop with regard to LNG to be imported by the Ministry of Petroleum. However, prevalent prices of LNG at the global level are around 8.5 cents per million British thermal units (mmbtu).

According to the information provided by the ministry, China is the only country which has shown interest in coal-fired power plants whereas investors across the globe are interested in gas-based power plants.
The official said that the amount of circular debt is Rs254 billion due to the steps taken by the Ministry of Water and Power and Ministry of Finance with the latter arranging Rs65 billion for the power sector.
He claimed that the Ministry of Water and Power owes Rs131 billion to Pakistan State Oil (PSO).
The government intends to bridge the gap between demand and supply in the shortest possible time and this can only be done through the establishment of gas-fired power plants.
Published in The Express Tribune, February 5th, 2015.
Like Business on Facebook, follow @TribuneBiz on Twitter to stay informed and join in the conversation.

Good choice,LNG is a cleaner fuel but they should diversify & keep all options open.Also any news on thar Power plants

 

[Edevelop]

Well coal is harmful to environment and human health and the world is moving to alternatives. Not sure though how much cheaper it would be had they decided to go ahead with it. The LNG based energy plants on the other hand they say would cost around Rs. 8.85 per unit tarrif

 

[Shah01]

I looked at the scheme myself and invited an engineer from the vendors for a quote. When examined closely; there is a limit as to how many panels you are allowed by the Borough Planning Dep’t and your roof area. Based on the average number of sunshine hours (experience factor) of the area; in reality there would be very little extra electricity left over that could be sold. I was not entitled for any subsidy and the Payback period of the investment was more than 12 years, thus I decided against it.

I have a friend who installed PVC panels in Islamabad. It turns out cheaper than running diesel generators ever so often but still far more expensive than buying electricity. Since my friend has business in Dubai; he could afford the initial investment. Should GOP encourage solar panel installation thru a subsidy and say about a million homes have solar panels installed; even though there would be very little surplus electricity to be sold back, demand on the national grid would be reduced significantly.

As you can see I have suggested large scale PVC (photo voltaic cell) panels for homes & offices. I am however not in favour of the solar parks such as one being set up in the Cholistan desert with great fanfare. You would need miles & miles of transmission lines to connect it to the national grid. Additionally, during the sandstorms cells would be covered by dust and a work force would be needed to dust off the solar panels else production capacity would be seriously affected.

Yes you are right. There is a limit of 4kW per house and also based on the factors you have described above. In UK there is a subsidy in the form of Feed in Tariff plus grants. A few years ago these 4kW systems used to cost around £10k but these days one can buy a system for less then half the price. So it has come down in price. But these are too expensive for majority of Pakistanis.
I wait for the day when we can have solar panels with very high efficiencies and together with the ability to store this energy. Battery tech has come a long way in recent years but it is still far too expensive and not practical.

Diesel/Petrol are very expensive ways to generate power. It only makes sense if a CHP (combined heat and power) is used. Their efficiencies are close to 90%. Combined cycle power plants are the best way to generate power. Thar coal can be used for gasification (this will reduce carbon emissions) and then run the turbines.
At the end of the day "If there is a will there is a way".