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Eight Good People

Pakistan Army is not meant to participate in politics and governance

I agree, but the reality is very different, and no matter of "image rebuilding" will change that reality. The present claims of image are not going to fool anybody.

And your quoted verses of poetry are exactly why there needs to be the proper legal backing for what the reality of the system is, no matter how spun or perceived.
 
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I agree, but the reality is very different, and no matter of "image rebuilding" will change that reality. The present claims of image are not going to fool anybody.

And your quoted verses of poetry are exactly why there needs to be the proper legal backing for what the reality of the system is, no matter how spun or perceived.

Sir instead why should not we encourage good governance by civilians and discourage corruption based reconciliatory politics to protect and safeguard individual interests and discourage uneducated politicians?
 
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Sir instead why should not we encourage good governance by civilians and discourage corruption based reconciliatory politics to protect and safeguard individual interests and educated politicians?

Yes, that is the correct approach, but where do we start to correct all that is wrong, given the people and the system that we find ourselves burdened with? Like I said, the idealism needs to be tempered by the reality to find out what can actually work in Pakistan, by Pakistanis, and for Pakistanis, the rest of the world be damned..
 
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Yes, that is the correct approach, but where do we start to correct all that is wrong, given the people and the system that we find ourselves burdened with? Like I said, the idealism needs to be tempered by the reality to find out what can actually work in Pakistan, by Pakistanis, and for Pakistanis, the rest of the world be damned..

We can start with Institution building, Army as an institution can be a role model in this case. I agree a dictator suits us perfectly but why not try a dictator without a uniform for a change? And in my personal capacity and with limited knowledge I keep dreaming that PM of Pakistan should not be elected but selected, selected from an institution that produces leaders to lead different areas. The elected people should only be limited to raise voice for issues and problems of their respective area and constituency and they should nowhere be allowed to come near law formulation or approval.
 
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We can start with Institution building, Army as an institution can be a role model in this case. I agree a dictator suits us perfectly but why not try a dictator without a uniform for a change? And in my personal capacity and with limited knowledge I keep dreaming that PM of Pakistan should not be elected but selected, selected from an institution that produces leaders to lead different areas. The elected people should only be limited to raise voice for issues and problems of their respective area and constituency and they should nowhere be allowed to come near law formulation or approval.

Isn't that what my proposal is about, consistent with what you dream of?
 
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@Slav Defence @WAJsal Sirs, here is my submission:




EIGHT GOOD PEOPLE.

A suggested way forward for Pakistan, with three short term and three long term goals clearly identified, has been previously presented : Where to go from here? . Since that short article was written, the Army has taken clear and effective steps to go after all terrorists without discrimination, and their supporting mechanisms, whether they be political or financial. Importantly, it has also begun paying attention to creating a credible narrative to counter the terrorist's propaganda, thereby fulfilling the three short term steps suggested. There is also some evidence to suggest that three longer term suggested goals of going after armed militias maintained by political parties, and countering and reducing the suffocating and overbearing imposition of radical interpretations of religion over public life and in the military are being worked upon, slowly, but surely.

Given these very encouraging trends, it is perhaps a good time to look forward to identify broader goals for the entire nation and how they can be implemented stepwise. Obviously, many details will be left out in the interests of brevity, but the overall framework should be sound enough to be discussed for implementation.

Over the past decades, Pakistan has continued to struggle against quite adverse odds to take its rightful place in the region and internationally due to its internal turmoil in defining mechanisms of governance and power sharing between critical institutions of the state, including the military. Rather than reiterate the causes and problems of how Pakistan go to be where it is, it is far more important to decide where to go next, now that we are indeed where we are: a broken government, a non-functioning justice system, a hopelessly inept political class and an over-stretched military, all overlaid on rising social misery and widespread corruption that permeates all levels. Indeed, this list of failures is enough to give ample cause for many to say that solutions do not exist, but there is no other choice. These problems must be resolved, if Pakistan is to begin to rise to its potential, finally, three-quarters of a century after independence.

The never-ending tussle over power between the civil and military centers of power must be stopped. Given the realities on the ground, Constitutional idealism, desireable as it is, must give way to a working power sharing agreement, with the military's role in formulating foreign and defence policies formalized by assigning the relevant portfolios to two senior Generals. The civilian side must be limited to only these ministries: Finance, Interior, Commerce, and Social Services. That is it, a total of seven portfolios, plus the Prime Minister (there is no miscount, one more will be described later). Doing this is important for a number of reasons, the most important being creating the correct impression that no one is operating illegally or regard themselves as being above the law. Such a change at the top will take time to establish at the lower levels of both government and society, but has untold benefits in the long run by establishing the rule of law. Also, the concept of legalizing what has been shown to work rather than pining after unattainable idealism is important to realize for everyone. In the same vein, the issues with the judicial system can wait until the time for the present arrangement of military courts is drawing to a close in about a year and a half, given that the most pressing need for convicting and sentencing of terrorists can be dealt with effectively until then.

Given the multitude of other problems, made worse by a ever rising population with rapid urbanization, there is one key element that underwrites the solutions to all of them: Energy. Every other problem can be mitigated effectively if and only if there is an ample supply of reliable and plentiful energy supplies of all kinds. Given how far Pakistan is lagging behind in this crucial area, and all the adverse effects thereof, this must be assigned on a war footing to the military. It is the only working institution that remains capable of dealing with the many issues plaguing this vital sector, from corrupt power deals, to unreliable distribution and rampant theft.

Radical? Yes. Workable? Absolutely. All Pakistan needs is eight good people (four civilian, three military), one each responsible for the Finance, Interior, Commerce, Social Services, Foreign, Defense and Energy ministries, led by a Prime Minister. Call it whatever you like, democratic, technocratic, unity, hybrid, bizarre, travesty, but think about it as the only viable way left to Pakistan if it is to flourish, not merely survive, in the 21st century in an evermore competitive global village.

Eight good people. In a nation of over 200 million, is that too much to ask and hope for?
Well done on a good article. However it could have done with a more detailed analysis. I agree with the energy clause but of equal importance is water. We are looking at a national disaster due to lack of attention to water resources and conservation. Of equalimportan e is prevention of floods which have become a national annual occurance. I need not emphasise the importance of water to what is essentially an agricultural society. Taxation on all forms of incomes including agriculture is another aspect which cannot be over emphasised.
There are certain nitty gritties which need to be evolved further. Firstly a toothless judiciary will never be effective. It needs to have the police department given under its wings to make it more effective. Secondly and equally crucially we need to have a national education department and starting from basic education we need a national syllabus which should be rigidly enforced at all levels and in all institutions. No double standdards and no english and Urdu medium. These are a few ommissions which I feel need to be elaborated..perhaps if you could leave it as a work in progress we can suggest additions which can be discussed and included in the article.
A
 
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Well done on a good article. However it could have done with a more detailed analysis. I agree with the energy clause but of equal importance is water. We are looking at a national disaster due to lack of attention to water resources and conservation. Of equalimportan e is prevention of floods which have become a national annual occurance. I need not emphasise the importance of water to what is essentially an agricultural society. Taxation on all forms of incomes including agriculture is another aspect which cannot be over emphasised.
There are certain nitty gritties which need to be evolved further. Firstly a toothless judiciary will never be effective. It needs to have the police department given under its wings to make it more effective. Secondly and equally crucially we need to have a national education department and starting from basic education we need a national syllabus which should be rigidly enforced at all levels and in all institutions. No double standdards and no english and Urdu medium. These are a few ommissions which I feel need to be elaborated..perhaps if you could leave it as a work in progress we can suggest additions which can be discussed and included in the article.
A

I agree with all your points here Sir. I wanted to keep the article concise, but I would have touched on all these aspects had I chosen to go into details. The water issue is huge too, but plentiful and reliable energy sources can help mitigate that as well, for energy underwrites all aspects of our lives. The issues of the judiciary, the police and the education system are cesspools in their own ways (no offence intended) that will take a huge effort to set right. All of these issues were not made in a day, and will not be resolved in a day either, or by 2018 (for example: no loadshedding by then, my foot) but we need to get a nucleus of reformation going first, and then expanding it outwards. My criticisms of the military for its failings is on record here, but I also know that it does some things very well, indeed it is the only institution that can be presently counted upon for certain things. Idealism is good, but we need a pragmatic consensus if we together are going to clean out this Aegean stable of governance, full of excreta accumulated over decades (again, no offence intended).
 
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Isn't that what my proposal is about, consistent with what you dream of?

I have reread the article and my key observations are

now that we are indeed where we are: a broken government, a non-functioning justice system, a hopelessly inept political class and an over-stretched military, all overlaid on rising social misery and widespread corruption that permeates all levels.

Shortcomings, inefficiencies and scarce resources have been identified adequately in a brief and concise manner. But there is one problem, military is also included in this list of problems / ones facing problems. And as the article goes on military is believed to be the only savior. As I said already we start with institution building instead of chanting Army Army slogans every time we are facing domestic problems and political chaos. Strong institutions in place will allow for elimination of corrupt and will ensure checks and controls over the remaining. I agree it will take time but anything durable takes time before its fruition, Sona aag say guzary ga to kundan bany ga.



The never-ending tussle over power between the civil and military centers of power must be stopped. Given the realities on the ground, Constitutional idealism, desireable as it is, must give way to a working power sharing agreement,

Also, the concept of legalizing what has been shown to work rather than pining after unattainable idealism is important to realize for everyone.

Can anyone throw 1973 document in a dustbin without committing a political suicide or getting lynched? This Constitution is the most holiest of grail held by politicians, religious party heads, they, their supporters and their defenders cling to it like vampire bats, amending it takes considerable resources and time, in fact some amendments result in bloodshed and resentment as we witnessed in changing name of a province, and amendments of nature to rewrite it to share power with Army........ Well I don't know how that would be possible (if it is possible in the first place) without damage to Public property, sit-ins, loss of human lives, anarchy, and confused populace.

This would also go against the very first oath these Army officers have been taking for decades, and by the way we have experienced some what a similar power sharing agreement before The "NRO", though it was between an ex Serviceman and politicians but still we all experienced how well it benefited Pakistan and its people.



Given how far Pakistan is lagging behind in this crucial area, and all the adverse effects thereof, this must be assigned on a war footing to the military.

It is the only working institution that remains capable of dealing with the many issues plaguing this vital sector, from corrupt power deals, to unreliable distribution and rampant theft.


Again, the need for and habit of calling Army for rescue from very problem which has other possible solutions needs to end. Even if we get military involved what are the guarantees that they will be able to solve energy crisis, the most sensitive issue that affects general public, which contributed significantly for downfall and near wipe out of PPP as a national party to a political party limited to a backward areas of a province. Further Musharraf with all the fame and support he enjoyed was unable to build Kala Bagh dam. We don’t need adhoc short term measures for problems having long term affects. I will conclude my arguments by this last question; we have one functional institution “Pakistan Army”, what makes us believe that they as an institution will be able to resist the temptation of enjoying power? The fruits that this power brings with it may distract army as an institution from its main objective which is to safeguard Pakistan against external aggression and threats.
 
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Sir, thank you for the comments, but it is quite clear that the Army is part of the problem, and it must be part of the solution. Its officers have violated their oaths time and again, including going against the Constitution. Calling Army the only savior is far-fetched, but asking it to help generate the solution being proposed is the only practical way left.

I have reread the article and my key observations are



Shortcomings, inefficiencies and scarce resources have been identified adequately in a brief and concise manner. But there is one problem, military is also included in this list of problems / ones facing problems. And as the article goes on military is believed to be the only savior. As I said already we start with institution building instead of chanting Army Army slogans every time we are facing domestic problems and political chaos. Strong institutions in place will allow for elimination of corrupt and will ensure checks and controls over the remaining. I agree it will take time but anything durable takes time before its fruition, Sona aag say guzary ga to kundan bany ga.







Can anyone throw 1973 document in a dustbin without committing a political suicide or getting lynched? This Constitution is the most holiest of grail held by politicians, religious party heads, they, their supporters and their defenders cling to it like vampire bats, amending it takes considerable resources and time, in fact some amendments result in bloodshed and resentment as we witnessed in changing name of a province, and amendments of nature to rewrite it to share power with Army........ Well I don't know how that would be possible (if it is possible in the first place) without damage to Public property, sit-ins, loss of human lives, anarchy, and confused populace.

This would also go against the very first oath these Army officers have been taking for decades, and by the way we have experienced some what a similar power sharing agreement before The "NRO", though it was between an ex Serviceman and politicians but still we all experienced how well it benefited Pakistan and its people.








Again, the need for and habit of calling Army for rescue from very problem which has other possible solutions needs to end. Even if we get military involved what are the guarantees that they will be able to solve energy crisis, the most sensitive issue that affects general public, which contributed significantly for downfall and near wipe out of PPP as a national party to a political party limited to a backward areas of a province. Further Musharraf with all the fame and support he enjoyed was unable to build Kala Bagh dam. We don’t need adhoc short term measures for problems having long term affects. I will conclude my arguments by this last question; we have one functional institution “Pakistan Army”, what makes us believe that they as an institution will be able to resist the temptation of enjoying power? The fruits that this power brings with it may distract army as an institution from its main objective which is to safeguard Pakistan against external aggression and threats.
 
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Sir, thank you for the comments, but it is quite clear that the Army is part of the problem, and it must be part of the solution. Its officers have violated their oaths time and again, including going against the Constitution. Calling Army the only savior is far-fetched, but asking it to help generate the solution being proposed is the only practical way left.

Sir it was nice having discussion with you, but my opinion in nutshell still remains that institutions functioning within their jurisdiction, not the individuals is what Pakistan needs, who knows we may be saying the same thing. Nice writing though. :tup:
 
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Sir it was nice having discussion with you, but my opinion in nutshell still remains that institutions functioning within their jurisdiction, not the individuals is what Pakistan needs, who knows we may be saying the same thing. Nice writing though. :tup:

Please note that there are no effective institutions that are doing what each is supposed to be doing. None. These 8 people, if they can be found (and that is a very big if) will have to form a core that may rejuvenate the whole crumbling edifice. Or we can all sit back and enjoy the ride down into hell.
 
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Please note that there are no effective institutions that are doing what each is supposed to be doing. None. These 8 people, if they can be found (and that is a very big if) will have to form a core that may rejuvenate the whole crumbling edifice. Or we can all sit back and enjoy the ride down into hell.

67 years, many have wished, many have prayed, many have dreamt. These 8 people well there must be many, but the society and system won't ever let them take the lead.
 
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I would prefer that you continue to attempt constitutional idealism. That the conflicts continue and the military is defeated permanently. That is a one time fix, but one which will fix you for good.
 
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