Egypt Reportedly Considering Purchasing More Rafales

[YeBeWarned]

why is Pakistan ready to sell it's best technology to every one??
I think we would sell only export version, which will be different from what we are using.

what best technology we are offering to anyone that no one else can offer ?

 

[unleashed]

$$$ kahan se arha hai bhai??

 

[The SC]

I think it will be excellent if Egypt signs the contract for the additional 12 Rafales to make the total 36, which technically gives the EAF 3 squadrons. Larger airforces will have around 18 to 20, possibly 24 fighters per squadron but Egypt seems to designate 12 per, hence the original order of 24 and now an additional 12 (if it goes through.)

I do think the production of 24 complete air-frames per month from Rafale is extremely ambitious, The SC, TBH. It seems the UAE might also get in on a Rafale order. That would really put the strain on them. Is that even possible for a number like that? How ironic that for 20+ years or so, the French couldn't get anyone to buy this fighter jet and now.....? It might have a hard time keeping up with orders! Thanks to Egypt despite India choosing it before. I think it's pretty obvious that the deal with Egypt blew the doors wide open for Rafale.

I would also be a bit cautious about the Su-35 or 30 being acquired since it's only a rumor and those can be abound in Egypt lol. "29" units is also a very odd number. Even if there is any truth to it, I'm not convinced it would be a better option for the EAF. Despite how terrific that aircraft is. In this day and age there needs to be more emphasis on procuring fighters with lesser RCS, and the Su-35 is a very large aircraft. It would make sense for countries who already operate a line of Su's, such as Algeria or Malaysia. But for Egypt? After already committing to 50+/- MiG-35's? Why add a different and much larger aircraft to one's airforce? I would invest in more Rafales in the F4 standard. At least that has better RCS than the Su-35 and is already part of the inventory and a superb fighter. It just makes more sense. The only good thing I see coming from the Su-35 is it's Irbis radar and weapon's payload. That might have a fighting chance against something like the F-35 but IMO, the Su-35 would be spotted a lot sooner than the other. If it's mission is not geared for air superiority, then why purchase it? Egypt would be much better off sticking with the Rafale or increasing its MiG-35's for good, rugged and functional 4+ GEN BVR fighters or go in the way of UACV's as that is the future. At this point, adding another airframe such as the Su-35 doesn't make much sense. I know I'll be in the minority with this thinking because of the majority's infatuation with the Su-30/35 family of fighters. I'm a big fan as well, but you have to look at this particular situation from a pragmatic standpoint.

The AIM-7 Sparrow on the Egyptian F-16's is really old tech. It's probably the least effective BVR missile out there. I have my doubts on the V-upgrade that it will include any BVR upgrades to Egyptian F-16's. That would mean the software and hardware upgrade and an inventory of what, 500+/- AIM 120 AMRAAM's? I believe that was the quantity Pakistan got for a lesser overall quantity of F-16s, so it would have to be at least that many. In that case, I strongly think that even if Israel is getting the F-35, they will most certainly scream about that. They're not known to be passive about these kinds of things and Trump's indication to leave the Palestinian issue up to Netanyahu and the Israelis is proof that he will be just like all the other US presidents when it comes to bowing down to Israel. I hope I'm proven wrong, but it seems very unlikely. If you think about it, how was Egypt able to get into the modern BVR club? It had to go somewhere else besides the US where Israel's influence is not as strong. I bet the Israelis are already alarmed at this incredible surge of Egyptian military equipment. We're even yet to see what the A-A weapon's package for the MiG-35's will be.

The SU-XX deal was announced on the official Egyptian Television along with the other deals.. so it is quite credible.. The SU-35 in particular has a relatively much lower RCS than the SU-XX family, it is now around 5m2 from 15m2 for its predecessors.... Remember that Egypt asked the US for the F-15 many times, but that was refused.. it only shows the Egyptian requirement for a heavyweight fighter, the SU-35 can fulfil that need quite efficiently, and more so in combination with the Mig-35..

Egypt will get these 12 new Rafale and as the Egyptian Mirage-2k are phased out, there will be more Rafale procurements..

As you say Usrael might be worried about Egypt getting the AIM 120 AMRAAM's, but what the US has to lose now that Egypt is getting its equivalents from somewhere else? I heard the Egyptian Air chief Marshal saying that Egypt will go for the whole package contained in the V upgrade including weapons..
Dassault wants to increase its production to 36 aircrafts a year, that was my mistake for they announced at least 24 a year from the current 11 a year.. and this is not including the 60 Rafale for the UAE if that deal is finalised.. And it is not sure if the suppliers can cope wit that increase!

 

[Hell NO]

The SU-XX deal was announced on the official Egyptian Television along with the other deals.. so it is quite credible.. The SU-35 in particular has a relatively much lower RCS than the SU-XX family, it is now around 5m2 from 15m2 for its predecessors.... Remember that Egypt asked the US for the F-15 many times, but that was refused.. it only shows the Egyptian requirement for a heavyweight fighter, the SU-35 can fulfil that need quite efficiently, and more so in combination with the Mig-35..

Egypt will get these 12 new Rafale and as the Egyptian Mirage-2k are phased out, there will be more Rafale procurements..

As you say Usrael might be worried about Egypt getting the AIM 120 AMRAAM's, but what the US has to lose now that Egypt is getting its equivalents from somewhere else? I heard the Egyptian Air chief Marshal saying that Egypt will go for the whole package contained in the V upgrade including weapons..
Dassault wants to increase its production to 36 aircrafts a year, that was my mistake for they announced at least 24 a year from the current 11 a year.. and this is not including the 60 Rafale for the UAE if that deal is finalised.. And it is not sure if the suppliers can cope wit that increase!

The Egyptian TV just reported a 29 SU deal the specific type or model was not mention which is odd giving that the same report mentioned other deals and specified every (important) detail about them and also because 29 is not divisible by 12 which led some people to believe that the report was about the sukhoi superjet 100 passenger jet.

 

[Gomig-21]

As you say Usrael might be worried about Egypt getting the AIM 120 AMRAAM's, but what the US has to lose now that Egypt is getting its equivalents from somewhere else?

Good point. I would say probably the numbers. If you keep the F-16's in the EAF inventory out of the mix - let's say 220 +/- A/C since they've had 240 delivered since 1982 but have suffered a few losses, I'm not sure how many maybe someone has the accurate info but if we base it on a generous total of 20 losses which is probably high - and figure only the non-US BVR platforms available in the Rafales and possibly MiG-35's...you're looking at 85-87 BVR capable fighters. Add the F-16s to that mix and now you have a pretty substantial fleet of 300+. I would think keeping that number down as much as possible is certainly in Israel's favor, despite their much greater quantitative and qualitative edge. I hope I'm wrong. It has stunk, having the 4th largest F-16 fleet and only having them equipped with AIM-7 Sparrows for so many years, believe me! You look at all the other Muslim/Arab countries that have US built jets from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Turkey, Morroco and Pakistan all have the AIM-120's. We're the only ones who don't. I wonder why?

 

[Fledgingwings]

I consider Egypt practically more serious towards their military deals than INDIA.they,re buying and buying and INDIA still making decisions.

 

[The SC]

Good point. I would say probably the numbers. If you keep the F-16's in the EAF inventory out of the mix - let's say 220 +/- A/C since they've had 240 delivered since 1982 but have suffered a few losses, I'm not sure how many maybe someone has the accurate info but if we base it on a generous total of 20 losses which is probably high - and figure only the non-US BVR platforms available in the Rafales and possibly MiG-35's...you're looking at 85-87 BVR capable fighters. Add the F-16s to that mix and now you have a pretty substantial fleet of 300+. I would think keeping that number down as much as possible is certainly in Israel's favor, despite their much greater quantitative and qualitative edge. I hope I'm wrong. It has stunk, having the 4th largest F-16 fleet and only having them equipped with AIM-7 Sparrows for so many years, believe me! You look at all the other Muslim/Arab countries that have US built jets from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Turkey, Morroco and Pakistan all have the AIM-120's. We're the only ones who don't. I wonder why?

Most likely because Egypt is the closest country to Usrael..and still being considered a threat, since the US is dedicated to let Usrael have the upper hand in the air, Egypt was denied the F-15, the AIM-120 and many more systems, even the Patriot air defence system is not in the Egyptian inventory..
I think it is time to consider co-production of the JF-17 Block 3 that comes with an AESA radar and a very good suite of weapons including, long range BVR air to air missiles and dozens of other very potent weapons..all of which are sanction free and with a ToT possibility.. I do not know what Egypt is waiting for! a home made small and lightweight fighter with a heavy punch is a value plus squared..So in the worst case scenario that no Egyptian F-16s will be upgraded to V and no Aim 120 is coming,those F-16s will have a potent ground support role and in close air combat.. while the Rafale, Mig-35, SU-35 and JF-17 will all have BVR capabilities and stand off weapons..

The Egyptian TV just reported a 29 SU deal the specific type or model was not mention which is odd giving that the same report mentioned other deals and specified every (important) detail about them and also because 29 is not divisible by 12 which led some people to believe that the report was about the sukhoi superjet 100 passenger jet.

That can be 24 single seat and 5 double seat for training..
The SU-XX was mentioned on the Egyptian TV along with the other Military deals.. hence the possibility of any civilian airliner is out of question and illogic..
They did not mention which SU-XX it was because it can be the SU-35 or the SU-30MKS Super-Soukhoi upgrade that is very close in specs to the SU-35 and most likely less expensive

 

[Gomig-21]

Most likely because Egypt is the closest country to Usrael..and still being considered a threat, since the US is dedicated to let Usrael have the upper hand in the air, Egypt was denied the F-15, the AIM-120 and many more systems, even the Patriot air defence system is not in the Egyptian inventory..

Of course. Sorry for the sarcasm in my post. The Peace treaty has always been shaky on many levels. It's unpopularity amongst the masses and other Arab countries has caused terrible alienation for Egypt and put it in a tough predicament. It's only now that we're seeing that resentment somewhat slowly flutter away.

I also remember discussing the deal for the F-15 quite a bit on other forums and that deal for 12 F-15E's (IIRC on the exact model) was actually approved by the US congress and ready to go through. Then the pitch came from the Israelis who screamed bloody murder, eventually leading to the deal being rescinded and taken off the table. It almost went through.

I believe the EADS is better off with the S-300VM than the PACIII. That was an excellent decision, not to mention the TOR/BUK as well.

 

[theman111]

with what money? they have lack of dollars if gcc dont pay for this i cant see how they pay for refaels

Most likely because Egypt is the closest country to Usrael..and still being considered a threat, since the US is dedicated to let Usrael have the upper hand in the air, Egypt was denied the F-15, the AIM-120 and many more systems, even the Patriot air defence system is not in the Egyptian inventory..
I think it is time to consider co-production of the JF-17 Block 3 that comes with an AESA radar and a very good suite of weapons including, long range BVR air to air missiles and dozens of other very potent weapons..all of which are sanction free and with a ToT possibility.. I do not know what Egypt is waiting for! a home made small and lightweight fighter with a heavy punch is a value plus squared..So in the worst case scenario that no Egyptian F-16s will be upgraded to V and no Aim 120 is coming,those F-16s will have a potent ground support role and in close air combat.. while the Rafale, Mig-35, SU-35 and JF-17 will all have BVR capabilities and stand off weapons..


That can be 24 single seat and 5 double seat for training..
The SU-XX was mentioned on the Egyptian TV along with the other Military deals.. hence the possibility of any civilian airliner is out of question and illogic..
They did not mention which SU-XX it was because it can be the SU-35 or the SU-30MKS Super-Soukhoi upgrade that is very close in specs to the SU-35 and most likely less expensive

they could developed some themself

Most likely because Egypt is the closest country to Usrael..and still being considered a threat, since the US is dedicated to let Usrael have the upper hand in the air, Egypt was denied the F-15, the AIM-120 and many more systems, even the Patriot air defence system is not in the Egyptian inventory..
I think it is time to consider co-production of the JF-17 Block 3 that comes with an AESA radar and a very good suite of weapons including, long range BVR air to air missiles and dozens of other very potent weapons..all of which are sanction free and with a ToT possibility.. I do not know what Egypt is waiting for! a home made small and lightweight fighter with a heavy punch is a value plus squared..So in the worst case scenario that no Egyptian F-16s will be upgraded to V and no Aim 120 is coming,those F-16s will have a potent ground support role and in close air combat.. while the Rafale, Mig-35, SU-35 and JF-17 will all have BVR capabilities and stand off weapons..


That can be 24 single seat and 5 double seat for training..
The SU-XX was mentioned on the Egyptian TV along with the other Military deals.. hence the possibility of any civilian airliner is out of question and illogic..
They did not mention which SU-XX it was because it can be the SU-35 or the SU-30MKS Super-Soukhoi upgrade that is very close in specs to the SU-35 and most likely less expensive

egypt have alot deeper problems in the economy then israel i think

 

[ziaulislam]

Good point. I would say probably the numbers. If you keep the F-16's in the EAF inventory out of the mix - let's say 220 +/- A/C since they've had 240 delivered since 1982 but have suffered a few losses, I'm not sure how many maybe someone has the accurate info but if we base it on a generous total of 20 losses which is probably high - and figure only the non-US BVR platforms available in the Rafales and possibly MiG-35's...you're looking at 85-87 BVR capable fighters. Add the F-16s to that mix and now you have a pretty substantial fleet of 300+. I would think keeping that number down as much as possible is certainly in Israel's favor, despite their much greater quantitative and qualitative edge. I hope I'm wrong. It has stunk, having the 4th largest F-16 fleet and only having them equipped with AIM-7 Sparrows for so many years, believe me! You look at all the other Muslim/Arab countries that have US built jets from Saudi Arabia, UAE, Jordan, Turkey, Morroco and Pakistan all have the AIM-120's. We're the only ones who don't. I wonder why?

because most of f-16s comes as AID rather than being paid for.

 

[Gomig-21]

because most of f-16s comes as AID rather than being paid for.

That isn't the reason. The question was sarcastic, BTW. All Egyptian ones are free as part of Peace Vector program. Others are getting them free as well but get the complete weapon's package + more. The reason is above in several posts.

 

[ziaulislam]

That isn't the reason. The question was sarcastic, BTW. All Egyptian ones are free as part of Peace Vector program. Others are getting them free as well but get the complete weapon's package + more. The reason is above in several posts.

thats what i am saying, those who got weapons never got them free
even we never got a single f-16 free
the only component that we have ever got free was small portion of stuctural upgrade of current f-16s
every fighter was paid for and every missiles got paid for
this isnt the case for Egyptians f-16s

 

[Gomig-21]

thats what i am saying, those who got weapons never got them free

Israel doesn't get it's American made jets AND weapons (including the AIM-120) for free? This is what we're talking about and how Egypt wasn't allowed the AIM-120 as part of its aid package while Israel did and will for the next 10 years, including newer developed US weapons. They just agreed on this aid package last September. All free.

U.S. $38B military aid package to Israel sends a message

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/09/14/united-states-military-aid-israel/90358564/

Nothing to do with the great country of Pakistan or others buying US weapons. Believe me, most if not all Egyptians would MUCH rather see Egypt find ways to buy all its own weapons, but even if she was to request the purchase of US-made BVR AMRAAMS (specifically the AIM-120,) the US will not sell it (or at least was never willing to provide them) because Israel does not want to see all those Egyptian jets with BVR capability in case of a future conflict. It's part of keeping Israel's military edge not with buying or getting them free. Hopefully The SC is right and the Viper upgrade will include the AIM-120. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[theman111]

Israel doesn't get it's American made jets AND weapons (including the AIM-120) for free? This is what we're talking about and how Egypt wasn't allowed the AIM-120 as part of its aid package while Israel did and will for the next 10 years, including newer developed US weapons. They just agreed on this aid package last September. All free.

U.S. $38B military aid package to Israel sends a message

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/09/14/united-states-military-aid-israel/90358564/

Nothing to do with the great country of Pakistan or others buying US weapons. Believe me, most if not all Egyptians would MUCH rather see Egypt find ways to buy all its own weapons, but even if she was to request the purchase of US-made BVR AMRAAMS (specifically the AIM-120,) the US will not sell it (or at least was never willing to provide them) because Israel does not want to see all those Egyptian jets with BVR capability in case of a future conflict. It's part of keeping Israel's military edge not with buying or getting them free. Hopefully The SC is right and the Viper upgrade will include the AIM-120. We'll have to wait and see.

we developed our own weapons what i cant say about your country

Israel doesn't get it's American made jets AND weapons (including the AIM-120) for free? This is what we're talking about and how Egypt wasn't allowed the AIM-120 as part of its aid package while Israel did and will for the next 10 years, including newer developed US weapons. They just agreed on this aid package last September. All free.

U.S. $38B military aid package to Israel sends a message

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/09/14/united-states-military-aid-israel/90358564/

Nothing to do with the great country of Pakistan or others buying US weapons. Believe me, most if not all Egyptians would MUCH rather see Egypt find ways to buy all its own weapons, but even if she was to request the purchase of US-made BVR AMRAAMS (specifically the AIM-120,) the US will not sell it (or at least was never willing to provide them) because Israel does not want to see all those Egyptian jets with BVR capability in case of a future conflict. It's part of keeping Israel's military edge not with buying or getting them free. Hopefully The SC is right and the Viper upgrade will include the AIM-120. We'll have to wait and see.

why dont you develop you air to air missle? or your plane you are 90 milion people smaler countirs like france developed planes and advanced weapons

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-egypt-investment-gulf-idUKKBN0LY0UT20150302
and who pay for new capital 45 bilion dollars dont tell me egypt putt one dollar on this

 

[Gomig-21]

we developed our own weapons what i cant say about your country

Good for you. Who said anything about whatever Israel develops on its own? We were talking about the AIM-120 provided by the US for the F-16's and Israel gets them but Egypt doesn't...because of Israel. Nothing to do with what you just said.

why dont you develop you air to air missle? or your plane you are 90 milion people smaler countirs like france developed planes and advanced weapons

Thanks for the suggestion. Let's say that we wanted to; our front-line fighter is the F-16 because of it's numbers so we would have to develop a BVR missile for that particular A/C, correct? Certainly not for the MiG-21's or the F-7's or Mirage VI's or Phantoms. So what does that mean? We would need to invest a lot of money in R&D, build prototypes, test them, fix any problems, make sure they're working right and then what? We would need the source codes for the F-16 on-board computers and reprogram them to fire this domestic missile but more importantly, the missile itself would need to be compatible with the F-16's software and hardware systems let alone design and build it in the first place and how would that happen? You think the US would've given out that information or helped with any of that? Of course not. It can never be done without at least the US' approval (let alone assistance with plans and materials) since there is a contract signed for the use/non-use of those jets that prohibits any modifications to them unless approved by them. So that is the reason. Not because of inability or lack of will or anything like that.

Israel had it's Python and Derby (or whatever else) developed AND integrated with the help and willingness of the US. Without that you would have never been able to develop those missiles and weapons, let alone integrate them. That's why your domestic radar was never allowed to replace the AN/APG-81 on the F-35 because the US wouldn't allow it. Same thing with the Lavi. Never allowed by the US.

Also, France's position through the last century was much more different than Egypt's so your analogy (while insulting in a funny way lol) is not even close to a realistic comparison. Hope that answers your question.