Egypt promotes birth control to fight rapid population growth

[Hrk19]

in my country, which has long set the standard for family planning for the world, moslem uiuis are allowed to overbreed relative to restrictions on other ethnicities. but this special dispensation of favor, uiuis know well, comes from the almighty state, not from their script or god.

if the state grants a special favor to uiuis, it is imperative that the uiuis take it as the grace of their chinese sovereign. and if a uiui religious scholar came forward and told fellow uiuis that they could propagate like rabbits because their religion says so, that scholar would be stealing from the prestige, authority and grace of his sovereign and commit high treason in the process. those uiui scholars ought to be put to sword like the traitors they are or, in the very least and at a time of grace and leniency from their sovereign, be sent to jail for twenty years.

in this mortal world, there is only the logic of the mortal god, only raison d'etat, and logic is political and is only political logic. he who defies this logic usually dies a prompt and humiliating death for blasphemy and treason.

oh i got no problem if you guys do it
see those rules are for muslim rulers only
if any muslim still lives in a place with those rules,its their choice so its fine.

Simple you listen to those who say it is allowed because it IS a logical answer to our problem

no you dont
anyone can say anything but islamic scholars have said its not allowed after researching all the relevant texts
so if you follow someone who says its allowed willy nilly without anything to back such a claim,you are deliberately committing a sin

 

[Zibago]

oh i got no problem if you guys do it
see those rules are for muslim rulers only
if any muslim still lives in a place with those rules,its their choice so its fine.


no you dont
anyone can say anything but islamic scholars have said its not allowed after researching all the relevant texts
so if you follow someone who says its allowed willy nilly without anything to back such a claim,you are deliberately committing a sin

Some have said it some have not i listen to those who say it is allowed because uncontrolled population is athreat for a country

 

[Hrk19]

Some have said it some have not i listen to those who say it is allowed because uncontrolled population is athreat for a country

nice try but no,you have to use Quran and Hadith to make a conclusion
and going by Quran and Hadith,state enforced population control is absolutely haram.

i will post this again and hope you properly understand what it means

By Sheikh Jamaal al-Din Zarabozo

The question of family planning and birth control was discussed in detail by the Majma al-Fiqh al-Islaami. They had twenty three scholars research this topic and present their findings on this matter. The participants involved represented many different trends and schools of thought. Among the participants were Muhammad Ali al-Baar, Ali al-Saaloos, Muhammad Saeed Ramadhan al-Booti, Abdullah al-Basaam, Hasan Hathoot and Muhammad Sayid Tantaawi. Their proceedings, papers and discussions may be found in Part One of the Fifth Volume of Majallah Majma al-Fiqh al-Islaami (1988/1409 A.H.). These proceedings are 748 pages all about the question of birth control and related issues.

The following are important points related to the issue of birth control in Islam. These were mentioned by some of the participants in the above program:

The institution of marriage and the want to have children was the custom of the best of creation, the prophets and messengers chosen by Allah. Allah says about them

"And indeed We sent messengers before you and made for them wives and offspring" (al-Raad 38)

The best example for the believers is the example of the prophet Muhammad (saw), who married and had children. These prophets and messengers are the people whom Muslims should look to emulate. Allah says

"They are those whom Allah has guided. So follow their guidance" (al-Anaam 90)

They should be emulated and not the disbelievers of the West, whose new lifestyles - mostly out of concern for enjoying this life or obtaining as many worldly goods as possible - discourage women from having more children.

Islam has forbidden celibacy (state of not being married), monasticism (life of monks & nuns) and castration (removal of the male glands) for such purposes. The prophet (saw) made this clear when he told those companions who were considering acetic forms of life: "I pray and I sleep; I fast and I break my fast; and I marry women. Whoever turns away from my way of life is not from me."

The prophet (saw) not only encouraged marriage but he encouraged marrying those women who are child-bearing. He stated: "marry the loving, child-bearing women for I shall have the largest numbers among the prophets on the day of Resurrection."(Recorded by Ahmad and ibn Hibban.)

From the Islamic perspective, children are a gift and a blessing from Allah. Allah mentions some of the bounties that He has bestowed upon mankind in the following verse: "And Allah has made for you spouses of your own kind and has made for you, from your wives, sons and grandsons, and has bestowed upon you good provisions." (al-Nahl 72)

Allah also said: "Wealth and children are the adornment of the life of this world." (al-Kahf 46)

The only true provider for all mankind is Allah. If Muslims follow what Allah has prescribed for them, Allah will provide for them. Allah has warned about killing one's children out of fear of poverty for either parents or the child. Allah says: "Kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them" (al-Anaam 151)

Allah also says: "And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin" (al-Isra 31)

Hence, Muslims should never abort or kill their children out of fear of poverty. It is Allah who provides for them.

Based on the above points and numerous others, the scholars who participated in the research on this question came up with the following resolution:

• It is not allowed to enact a general law that limits the freedom of spouses in having children.
• It is forbidden to "permanently" end a man's or a woman's ability to produce children, such as by having a hysterectomy or vasectomy, as long as that is not called for by circumstances of necessity according to its Islamic framework.
• It is permissible to control the timing of births with the intent of distancing the occurrences of pregnancy or to delay it for a specific amount of time, if there is some Shariah need for that in the opinion of the spouses, based on mutual consultation and agreement between them. However, this is conditioned by that not leading to any harm, by it being done by means that are approved in the Shariah and that it not do anything to oppose a current and existing pregnancy.

now,what you fail to realise is that once some difficult issue is decided by ijma then you cannot dispute it.
so now,you know its haram and if you choose to not accept it then that does not make it invalid,just that you are committing a sin

 

[iajj]

oh i got no problem if you guys do it
see those rules are for muslim rulers only
if any muslim still lives in a place with those rules,its their choice so its fine.

so you are saying Islamic scholars, in judging another moslem, apply first and foremost a political logic to his actions - whether his beliefs or actions take place where moslems predominate government or not. only in a place where islam is the religion of the land should we judge those moslems by islamic dogmatism. the political judgment, you concede, takes precedence over doctrinal interrogation.

so why cannot any other moslems apply a political test to any of his actions or beliefs? or is this political calculation - and moral hypocrisy - a prerogative of islamic scholars and religious zealots? why cannot any other moslem political leaders take stock of the demographic situation in their countries and speak for their nations and peoples and declare that in the matter of population control they must take into account the long term restraints of food stock, economic growth, environmental decay, and even water supply and take into account the enormous cost in human suffering and misery in ignoring those restraints now - before they are willing to use the force of government and state to coerce the people's literal adherence to the religion's prohibition of birth control?

mind you also that the political leaders apply the force of the state. it is a coercive force very different from the persuasive force of your islamic scholars' teaching and preaching. it seems to me rather that your religious zealots and scholars very much understand the logic of the state: you shy away from speaking to pagan imperial leaders in russia and china for the sake of political survival, but where political leaders are moslems themselves, you want to steal the political power and authority those politicians have built or fought for and want a wholesale swap of their swords for your words. if that is not a sneaky political craft, i don't know what else may qualify for politics.

 

[Godman]

"And indeed We sent messengers before you and made for them wives and offspring" (al-Raad 38)

"They are those whom Allah has guided. So follow their guidance" (al-Anaam 90)

"And Allah has made for you spouses of your own kind and has made for you, from your wives, sons and grandsons, and has bestowed upon you good provisions." (al-Nahl 72)

No mention of birth control again and if the Prophet is supposed to be imitated to the letter then why dont you marry the same number of wives at the same ages and have an equal number of Children?
Socioeconomic conditions during their time is different from now.

"Wealth and children are the adornment of the life of this world." (al-Kahf 46)

No mention of banning birth control

"Kill not your children because of poverty - We provide sustenance for you and for them" (al-Anaam 151)

Allah also says: "And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin" (al-Isra 31)

Abortion and putting a condom is different.