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Egypt Army: We Will Continue to Eradicate Terrorism

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Egyptian President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi and Defense Minister Sedki Sobhy in Suez in October 2017. (Reuters)

Egypt's Defense Minister Colonel General Sedki Sobhy stressed on Friday that terrorist attacks will not undermine the armed forces in its mission to eradicate terrorism and defend the country.

During his visit to a number of soldiers wounded in terrorist attacks in Sinai, the minister confirmed that the military will continue to protect the nation thanks to the valor of its members.

The army and police have since February 9 been waging a major security operation in northern and central Sinai to purge the region of militants and criminal elements.

Known as Operation Sinai 2018, President Abdul Fattah al-Sisi instructed the army and the police to use "all force" to root out terrorism. An ISIS affiliate in Sinai has been behind the majority of terrorist attacks in Egypt.

On April 14, the terrorist organization claimed responsibility for an attack in northern Sinai that killed eight army members and injured 15 others.

Meanwhile, an Egyptian study said that "the justification of takfiri groups to commit terrorist acts in Egypt is primarily based on six main concepts.”

The Observatory of Takfiri Fatwas of Egypt's Dar Ifta said that the first concept is "governance", which dictates the nature of the relationship with the Egyptian state.

The second concept is "Jihad," which is the main excuse used by terrorists to commit their crimes. Based on this idea, the ISIS affiliate in Sinai views "the political system, Christians, the army and the police" as its enemy.

The third is "takfir and apostasy", which are accusations thrown against all who oppose the group.

"Repentance", according to the study, is the fourth concept of the so-called Sinai State. It is used mainly to attract members from categories it had previously deemed as apostate.

Accountability (“hisbah”) is the fifth concept, which is synonymous with the idea of promoting virtue and preventing vice.

The sixth concept, as stated in the study, is "loyalty and dissociation,” which calls for fighting infidels.

https://aawsat.com/english/home/article/1244721/egypt-army-we-will-continue-eradicate-terrorism
 
Meanwhile, an Egyptian study said that "the justification of takfiri groups to commit terrorist acts in Egypt is primarily based on six main concepts.”

The Observatory of Takfiri Fatwas of Egypt's Dar Ifta said that the first concept is "governance", which dictates the nature of the relationship with the Egyptian state.

The second concept is "Jihad," which is the main excuse used by terrorists to commit their crimes. Based on this idea, the ISIS affiliate in Sinai views "the political system, Christians, the army and the police" as its enemy.

The third is "takfir and apostasy", which are accusations thrown against all who oppose the group.

"Repentance", according to the study, is the fourth concept of the so-called Sinai State. It is used mainly to attract members from categories it had previously deemed as apostate.

Accountability (“hisbah”) is the fifth concept, which is synonymous with the idea of promoting virtue and preventing vice.

The sixth concept, as stated in the study, is "loyalty and dissociation,” which calls for fighting infidels.

Seems like this would be the standard concept across the board for all these cretins in every place where they're operating, but there are some differences. The ones in Iraq and Syria are probably closer to each other while these in Sinai have a slightly different agenda and then there's the Libyan version which is more along the lines of a coalition of cretins that is more interested in monetary gains. The problem is, Egypt is being pinched by the latter two.

The GNA in Libya probably have it the worst out of all. At least in Syria and Iraq there is some core governance with some economic structure (even if it's at a lowly state) and significant outside superpower help. But in Libya, it's in shambles because of the lack of a central functioning governance which gives way to lawlessness and all the militias running wild. I'm not sure how the GNA has been able to survive until now. @Mhmoud , care to indulge us a bit? And how do you feel about Egypt's way of dealing with Libya, in general?
 
Seems like this would be the standard concept across the board for all these cretins in every place where they're operating, but there are some differences. The ones in Iraq and Syria are probably closer to each other while these in Sinai have a slightly different agenda and then there's the Libyan version which is more along the lines of a coalition of cretins that is more interested in monetary gains. The problem is, Egypt is being pinched by the latter two.

The GNA in Libya probably have it the worst out of all. At least in Syria and Iraq there is some core governance with some economic structure (even if it's at a lowly state) and significant outside superpower help. But in Libya, it's in shambles because of the lack of a central functioning governance which gives way to lawlessness and all the militias running wild. I'm not sure how the GNA has been able to survive until now. @Mhmoud , care to indulge us a bit? And how do you feel about Egypt's way of dealing with Libya, in general?
In general, I feel that the Egyptian military elite has not really done us that much good. It all started in 2014, when Khalifa Haftar (now in coma) tried a military coup against the Islamist parliament, and failed. He was backed by militias from the Zintan Military Council. Zintan (pop. 100k) and Misrata (pop. around 300k), used to control Tripoli jointly, and the Zintanis used to allow for a lot of crime in the area. Makes a good way of making money. The coup was because the Parliament (the GNC) didn't stand down to the new "parliament", the House of Representatives, who were elected in unofficial elections.

So Misrata kicks Zintan out of Tripoli, destroying the airport in the battles, and Haftar goes to hiding in the Wild East. The Misratans come after him, as well as the locals of the cities of the East, but were pounded by Egyptian and Emirati drones. Haftar claimed that he fought AQ, but he was fighting the Benghazi Defence Brigades (an IDP militia) and the Shura Councils of the cities of the East, which the UAE and Haftar regard to be terrorists.

Last October there was an airstrike that hit Derna (the last city in the East that is successfully resisting) that killed 15 women and children. Derna had an ISIS problem in 2015, but their Shura Council kicked them out, and Haftar brought them to Benghazi, in which they were also kicked out. Then he funnelled them to Sirte, where they massacred the Copts. The GNA then created the Op Bunyan Al-Marsous and spent 8000 people in liberating Sirte.

After about 15000 killed (by some accounts), and 4 years, he finally captures most of Benghazi and kills everybody inside the area of Ganfouda, as well as any escapees. Then in retaliation, the BDB decides to capture the entire oil crescent in one day. After a lot of airstrikes by UAE and Egypt, they pull back in 3 days.

The GNA is stuck with the fact that Egypt, France and Italy recognise its sovereignty, but support the other team. Egypt is probably the only supporter of Haftar that has also reached out to the other side. France even shunned us.

The issue now is what next? The UAE has a massive base in the East and will probably want to cause trouble there, and has been reported to be meeting with France to discuss Haftar's successor.Fighting terrorism sounds counterintuitive, as those controlling Eastern Libya are the only reason why there is terrorism there in the first place.
 
So Misrata kicks Zintan out of Tripoli, destroying the airport in the battles, and Haftar goes to hiding in the Wild East. The Misratans come after him, as well as the locals of the cities of the East, but were pounded by Egyptian and Emirati drones. Haftar claimed that he fought AQ, but he was fighting the Benghazi Defence Brigades (an IDP militia) and the Shura Councils of the cities of the East, which the UAE and Haftar regard to be terrorists.

Essentially the outline of what is being called a civil war, except I'm gathering that in the minds of the GNA and those in Tripoli, Benghazi, Misrata etc. see it as a fight against illegitimate, rogue elements whom are in turn, calling them the same and even labeling them as terrorists. Do most of the people in the main cities that are going along with the GNA and waiting and hoping for an eventual solid and full fledged government see Haftar as a terrorist and rogue element? In other words, is it safe to say that the majority of Libyans (militias not withstanding) support the GNA and are avidly against Haftar? What would you say the percentage of support of both sides is?

The GNA is stuck with the fact that Egypt, France and Italy recognise its sovereignty, but support the other team. Egypt is probably the only supporter of Haftar that has also reached out to the other side. France even shunned us.

Probably because Egypt wants to see a solution to the madness happening there and obviously is very concerned with the impact on Egypt as a result of the division. The obvious problem is finding a common solution which doesn't look feasible whatsoever. The two parties want full control.

The issue now is what next? The UAE has a massive base in the East and will probably want to cause trouble there, and has been reported to be meeting with France to discuss Haftar's successor.Fighting terrorism sounds counterintuitive, as those controlling Eastern Libya are the only reason why there is terrorism there in the first place.

Interesting. So what do you think needs to happen? What do you suppose Egypt and the UAE should do, considering there is a huge concern on our end for all the infiltration coming in from the border and that we are also involved in curbing the migration and fleeing by sea to Europe.

Also, why do you supposed France and the UAE are shunning the GNA and essentially supporting its enemy in Haftar?
 
Essentially the outline of what is being called a civil war, except I'm gathering that in the minds of the GNA and those in Tripoli, Benghazi, Misrata etc. see it as a fight against illegitimate, rogue elements whom are in turn, calling them the same and even labeling them as terrorists. Do most of the people in the main cities that are going along with the GNA and waiting and hoping for an eventual solid and full fledged government see Haftar as a terrorist and rogue element? In other words, is it safe to say that the majority of Libyans (militias not withstanding) support the GNA and are avidly against Haftar? What would you say the percentage of support of both sides is?
I do believe that the GNA doesn't really call anybody a terrorist unless they are part of AQ and/or ISIS. We have al types of militias operating under the MoD and MoI, from hardline Secularists to Salafists. For example, the Special Deterrent Force, an elite militia that controls the Mtiga Intl Airport, is Salafist, but at the same time arrests many people who have links to ISIS and risky individuals, in coordination with the Ministry of Interior.

In Inner Tripoli, as soon as the GNA took power, people did not have many options, but most don't really have any objection to the fact that it took power. The outskirts and neighbouring cities are also allied with the GNA not because they like it or anything. It reeks of corruption. But it is kind of like a vote against Haftar. When the French elected Macron, the margin was high because they wanted to vote against Le Pen. I see it as the same thing. I see the GNA as not the thing people voted for, but the least of all evils. Some people in there, like the deputy head, are actually good, meanwhile, Serraj himself doesn't seem to know what he's doing. In the capital, as long as people aren't being found dead in dumpsters (at least not in a long time), it's fine. The GNA also says that it wants elections and pushes for them, while also reiterating that they are a transitional govt and nothing else.

Probably because Egypt wants to see a solution to the madness happening there and obviously is very concerned with the impact on Egypt as a result of the division. The obvious problem is finding a common solution which doesn't look feasible whatsoever. The two parties want full control.
It is often said that there must be a solution that both sides like, but sometimes, the best solution is to let them fight it out. Haftar would only have captured a few villages had it not been for the UAE. In the Gulf of Sidra Offensive (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Sidra_Offensive_(2017) https://www.libyaobserver.ly/inbrief/world-powers-issue-statement-oil-crescent-incidents ), Haftar had rejected meeting Serraj in Cairo earlier in the week, after invitations for talks. Serraj offered to share power, but Haftar refused. As a result, the UAE and Egypt suspended all support for him for being so stupid. The Benghazi Defence Brigades then took the entire thing in less than a day. They were beaten back after three days of continuous drone strikes by the UAE.

Haftar depends on outside powers for his existence, and the easiest way to stop the war would be to let him go. I believe that Egypt has a chance to let him go as his Operation Dignity implodes.

Interesting. So what do you think needs to happen? What do you suppose Egypt and the UAE should do, considering there is a huge concern on our end for all the infiltration coming in from the border and that we are also involved in curbing the migration and fleeing by sea to Europe.

Also, why do you supposed France and the UAE are shunning the GNA and essentially supporting its enemy in Haftar?
I believe that the UAE should evacuate from Libya ASAP. Nobody wants them there. And all they do is pour fuel into the fire. There is concern about the border infiltration, but supporting somebody who, even with so much support can't do his job, is not a wise idea. The curbing migration is jointly done by the GNA and EU as well as Egypt, but Haftar doesn't take any part in it. In fact, his militias commit crimes (here's Hamza Sporto, a kidnapper who has turned into a millionaire https://www.libyaobserver.ly/news/s...e-fun-khalifa-haftar’s-man-wirshiffana-region ), as well as directly participating in illegal migration from Eastern Africa.

France has its own reasons for not supporting the GNA and its predecessor. The prime reason is that it has tried to bribe officials to buy weapons a few months before the coup, which was publicised. They tried to do the same with the GNA. There are literally hundreds of billions of dollars to be earned from canceling deals made with Russia under Gaddafi. The UAE tries to undermine democracy as much as possible so that it could make the point that democracies and Arabs are incompatible. They have been moderately successful, barring Tunisia. Also, El Sissi doesn't want a democratic beachhead that can harbor dissidents and the Muslim Brotherhood, so he wants a "strong" dictatorship there. I believe that border security is a lot cheaper and more effective than airstrikes inland and on-call for Haftar's supporters.
 
I see it as the same thing. I see the GNA as not the thing people voted for, but the least of all evils. Some people in there, like the deputy head, are actually good, meanwhile, Serraj himself doesn't seem to know what he's doing. In the capital, as long as people aren't being found dead in dumpsters (at least not in a long time), it's fine. The GNA also says that it wants elections and pushes for them, while also reiterating that they are a transitional govt and nothing else.

I figured you were in that camp which is really the most reasonable one IMO. It is the best thing that the true people of Libya are basically waiting for and that is, the GNA, being a transitional government needs to get the elections going to form the permanent one which is what the people want and should have and maybe they're trying, but it seems like they're stalling or using some pretext for why they haven't gotten them going. Maybe they have legitimate reasons and things just aren't ready yet because of all the issues, but the question will be how long will it take. Since the longer it takes, the worst the situation will be and the harder it will be to unite the people to vote their government in.

Haftar had rejected meeting Serraj in Cairo earlier in the week, after invitations for talks. Serraj offered to share power, but Haftar refused. As a result, the UAE and Egypt suspended all support for him for being so stupid. The Benghazi Defence Brigades then took the entire thing in less than a day. They were beaten back after three days of continuous drone strikes by the UAE.

The UAE is really sticking its fingers in many areas far from its territory. If you think about how they played that specific game you just mentioned, you can clearly see the UAE's motives. Haftar is essentially a pawn.

Haftar depends on outside powers for his existence, and the easiest way to stop the war would be to let him go. I believe that Egypt has a chance to let him go as his Operation Dignity implodes.

I'm sure you know that Egypt is trying to be very careful in this mess. We have our own problems but at the same time, are very concerned about the results of the chaos that's infiltrating eastward. By the same token, we're strongly allied with the UAE which is why Egypt is playing this hand very carefully. It's a difficult balance since obviously Sisi sees the UAE's support as essential to him.

I believe that the UAE should evacuate from Libya ASAP. Nobody wants them there.

Seems the same sentiment is in Somalia. I fear that situation is going to turn very ugly in the near future after the Somali authorities seized a $10 million delivery coming into Mogadishu. Now the UAE is suspending any and all Somali entry into the UAE. At the same time, it's ramping up it's support of Somaliland. They also run the airport and have larger and important assets they control, so there is no question they will crack the whip to try and punish the Somalis. The UAE is playing a rather dangerous game in the region and their involvement in Libya is no less dangerous.

The curbing migration is jointly done by the GNA and EU as well as Egypt, but Haftar doesn't take any part in it. In fact, his militias commit crimes (here's Hamza Sporto, a kidnapper who has turned into a millionaire https://www.libyaobserver.ly/news/s...e-fun-khalifa-haftar’s-man-wirshiffana-region ), as well as directly participating in illegal migration from Eastern Africa.

Yeah I know all about that bozo. There's also another famous guy who supposedly works for the LNA and is in charge of capturing illegal boats filled without immigrants escaping but at the same time, plays the other side and takes money to let them go. It's a friggin mess! This is what chaos breeds, opportunists of all kinds.

The UAE tries to undermine democracy as much as possible so that it could make the point that democracies and Arabs are incompatible. They have been moderately successful, barring Tunisia. Also, El Sissi doesn't want a democratic beachhead that can harbor dissidents and the Muslim Brotherhood, so he wants a "strong" dictatorship there.

You really think that's the UAE's sole (or major) reason for involvement in Libya?

I believe that border security is a lot cheaper and more effective than airstrikes inland and on-call for Haftar's supporters.

Really? How so? It's about 1,200 km long of brutal Sahara desert. Have you seen the number of cretin crunching the EAF and military have performed in just the last year trying to infiltrate the border into Egypt? We already have deployed tens of thousands of troops, helicopters and F-16s paroling the skies along the entire border as well as UAVs. We've even land-mined many areas along the border and it's still very difficult to stop everything. And the cost of the weapons used to smoke out these cretins is exorbitant. It's a very difficult task.
 
@Gomig-21 Making a Similar Wall than Turkey btw Egypt and Libya will cost you less than all those "Airstrikes and Military concentration"

Per exemple, the 900km TR wall, with a 3m Concrete Wall with Razor Wire + a Road behind it + another 3m Fence +Razor Wire... Add to it a watchpost every 5-10kms, with Every type of Possible Camera and Remote weapons at each of them + Tunnel counter measures and so on...
For around 700Mil$... ( For a mountainous areas)

Egyptian-Libyan Border is around 1000kms... and flat terrain/Desert and such project could be done in less than Two years...

That's if you close it completely...something you don't need to, you can create few chokepoints and therefore concentrate the "prevention" work.

Something like that:
North Mediterranean EGY-LIB Checkpoint ---300km Wall--- 50km Choke Point ---300km Wall--- 50km Choke Point ---300km Wall--- South EGY-LIB-SOUD checkpoint
And the price will be less than 300Mil$ with Egypt "prices"
All "Homemade"+ Ppl get jobs + Stay safe and money stay in Egypt.
 
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@Gomig-21 Making a Similar Wall than Turkey btw Egypt and Libya will cost you less than all those "Airstrikes and Military concentration"

Per exemple, the 900km TR wall, with a 3m Concrete Wall with Razor Wire + a Road behind it + another 3m Fence +Razor Wire... Add to it a watchpost every 5-10kms, with Every type of Possible Camera and Remote weapons at each of them + Tunnel counter measures and so on...
For around 700Mil$... ( For a mountainous areas)

Egyptian-Libyan Border is around 1000kms... and flat terrain/Desert and such project could be done in less than Two years...

That's if you close it completely...something you don't need to, you can create few chokepoints and therefore concentrate the "prevention" work.

Something like that:
North Mediterranean EGY-LIB Checkpoint ---300km Wall--- 50km Choke Point ---300km Wall--- 50km Choke Point ---300km Wall--- South EGY-LIB-SOUD checkpoint
And the price will be less than 300Mil$ with Egypt "prices"
All "Homemade"+ Ppl get jobs + Stay safe and money stay in Egypt.

Well, it might end up being less expensive but if they haven't built one yet and there's nothing planned as far as I know, there must be a reason for it and the only one I can think of is that they need to demonstrate a show of force and let it be known that any cretin who wants to cross and cause trouble will get a GBU-12 right through the forehead, and those things are about as accurate as can be.

kpjye89rdaucp2xey6qi.jpg


There's also the idea that one gets forced to build a wall because of a bunch of filthy cockroach vermin cretins. You don't really want the slime dictating or forcing you to do certain things and in this case, it might be more expensive to pound that living daylights out of them but it clearly sends the message which is also important.

The border is also not really flat all the way. I've been there 4-wheeling several times, mostly the northern area back when it was allowed to do so and southern section is rather mountainous. They're not huge mountains but enough to be headaches. And the length is listed in Egypt (not global stats) as exactly 1,157.6 km long which is why I just rounded it up to 1,200.

The other thing to consider is that a border of that length would usually be supported if the majority of the land area near and within it is somewhat populated. It becomes more of a necessity and logistical plausibility, but practically that entire border is vacant to human population. Who knows, then the next thing that happens is the cretins start coming in from the South and Sudan and then what, another wall? I think they'll just keep pounding them for as long as it takes.

The white desert of Egypt near the border is a marvel of nature.

DbyPJZsXcAEArSm.jpg


DbyPI5nWsAAAWws.jpg


DbyPG5SWkAAeyOV.jpg


DbyPEMKW4AAftBF.jpg



DbyPMKQWAAAMV6h.jpg
 
Well, it might end up being less expensive but if they haven't built one yet and there's nothing planned as far as I know, there must be a reason for it and the only one I can think of is that they need to demonstrate a show of force and let it be known that any cretin who wants to cross and cause trouble will get a GBU-12 right through the forehead, and those things are about as accurate as can be.

kpjye89rdaucp2xey6qi.jpg


There's also the idea that one gets forced to build a wall because of a bunch of filthy cockroach vermin cretins. You don't really want the slime dictating or forcing you to do certain things and in this case, it might be more expensive to pound that living daylights out of them but it clearly sends the message which is also important.

The border is also not really flat all the way. I've been there 4-wheeling several times, mostly the northern area back when it was allowed to do so and southern section is rather mountainous. They're not huge mountains but enough to be headaches. And the length is listed in Egypt (not global stats) as exactly 1,157.6 km long which is why I just rounded it up to 1,200.

The other thing to consider is that a border of that length would usually be supported if the majority of the land area near and within it is somewhat populated. It becomes more of a necessity and logistical plausibility, but practically that entire border is vacant to human population. Who knows, then the next thing that happens is the cretins start coming in from the South and Sudan and then what, another wall? I think they'll just keep pounding them for as long as it takes.

The white desert of Egypt near the border is a marvel of nature.

DbyPJZsXcAEArSm.jpg


DbyPI5nWsAAAWws.jpg


DbyPG5SWkAAeyOV.jpg


DbyPEMKW4AAftBF.jpg

Terros do not care about "Show of Force"... Since the one Giving orders is well hidden and at peace somewhere... The one fighting are used as cannon meat and Their brains already accepted it... Therefore Common Sense is not their favorite "Friend"...

So... You can show every Force you may want... it will not "Disappear", they will weaken, that's for sure...but they will still come and come... Terros Ideology is not won by "Bullets"... Bullets prevent the spreading and that's it...

I think a Wall in certain areas on the border + Creating a choke point is an interesting solution, at least if you have to "Pound them"... They will have no choice but to pass via that "Open Area"...
And it will be a step ahead of "no more Foreign Infiltration", no need to fight on multiple fronts (inside and Outside) just for the sake of playing with Planes...

"The smartest strategy is the simplest one"
 
I figured you were in that camp which is really the most reasonable one IMO. It is the best thing that the true people of Libya are basically waiting for and that is, the GNA, being a transitional government needs to get the elections going to form the permanent one which is what the people want and should have and maybe they're trying, but it seems like they're stalling or using some pretext for why they haven't gotten them going. Maybe they have legitimate reasons and things just aren't ready yet because of all the issues, but the question will be how long will it take. Since the longer it takes, the worst the situation will be and the harder it will be to unite the people to vote their government in.



The UAE is really sticking its fingers in many areas far from its territory. If you think about how they played that specific game you just mentioned, you can clearly see the UAE's motives. Haftar is essentially a pawn.



I'm sure you know that Egypt is trying to be very careful in this mess. We have our own problems but at the same time, are very concerned about the results of the chaos that's infiltrating eastward. By the same token, we're strongly allied with the UAE which is why Egypt is playing this hand very carefully. It's a difficult balance since obviously Sisi sees the UAE's support as essential to him.



Seems the same sentiment is in Somalia. I fear that situation is going to turn very ugly in the near future after the Somali authorities seized a $10 million delivery coming into Mogadishu. Now the UAE is suspending any and all Somali entry into the UAE. At the same time, it's ramping up it's support of Somaliland. They also run the airport and have larger and important assets they control, so there is no question they will crack the whip to try and punish the Somalis. The UAE is playing a rather dangerous game in the region and their involvement in Libya is no less dangerous.



Yeah I know all about that bozo. There's also another famous guy who supposedly works for the LNA and is in charge of capturing illegal boats filled without immigrants escaping but at the same time, plays the other side and takes money to let them go. It's a friggin mess! This is what chaos breeds, opportunists of all kinds.



You really think that's the UAE's sole (or major) reason for involvement in Libya?



Really? How so? It's about 1,200 km long of brutal Sahara desert. Have you seen the number of cretin crunching the EAF and military have performed in just the last year trying to infiltrate the border into Egypt? We already have deployed tens of thousands of troops, helicopters and F-16s paroling the skies along the entire border as well as UAVs. We've even land-mined many areas along the border and it's still very difficult to stop everything. And the cost of the weapons used to smoke out these cretins is exorbitant. It's a very difficult task.
I believe that the endgame of the UAE is the undermining of democracy as far as possible. If you loom at the UAE itself and the leadership of autocracies like KSA, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco and Oman, as well as Haftar's part of Libya, you will see that the monarchs and presidents have the very same narratives. The narrative is that the people are "not ready for democracy" ( https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180322-sisi-egypt-not-ready-for-democracy/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-ready-for-democracy-says-military-strongman ) and that they are in need for a "strong ruler" in order to bring control and order to the place. Libya was destabilised (although one could argue that it wasn't stable in the first place) by foreign support for domestic forces as well as foreign forces themselves. Tunisia has also had a tumultuous relationship with the UAE, accusing it of trying to bribe Tunisian press and even its army itself. The fact that the UAE controls the "security belt" in Yemen and routinely compromises the government there means that they could easily make the past death and destruction as a future argument for the notion that Arabs can't be given their freedom. I believe that the UAE has had a very major role in the conflict in Libya. The UN Panel of Experts report last year showed that the UAE had manned and unmanned aircraft, helicopters, and a lot of equipment given to Haftar, including Saudi-supplied technicals and their very fanciest of APCs. They have also supplied a Mi-35M hind and many other types of equipment.

Libya is also a very important place for the UAE because it is where a lot of Emirati business goes. A few weeks ago, it was revealed that 73% of all medical supplies sold to Libya by the UAE in Eastern Libya were made up of medicins that were out of date or unusable. The cost for producing one crate full of medicine was quoted to be about $4000, but to dispose of it takes $23000, so they decided to sell them on to Libya, where Haftar's authority approved every one of them for human consumption. This means that should they find their way to people, these people would certainly become ill, and they would suffer from the carcinogenic effects of the outdated medicine. Should it be earmarked for waste and put in a dump, it has serious environmental consequences, that may cause permanent damage to the ecosystem.

The fact that the UAE has invested so much money into its operations in Libya does not necessarily mean that they're spending their own money on this conflict. In fact, they use the money coming from assets meant to be frozen due to the global asset freeze. Their excuse for using this money is that the "legitimate" Libyan Govt requested them to unfreeze said assets in order to buy necessary foodstuffs and staples of everyday life. The UAE has essentially spent tens of billions of dollars in Libyan money, and for free, it has received influence in Africa's richest country (and half a proxy state), a lot of free money to help with its industrialisation, a wider geopolitical influence, a place where its firms save a lot of money (selling out-of-date products, and also prioritising Emirati businesses in Libyan contracts), a place where they can do some target practice and also a country to sue worldwide (an Emirati company once tried to sue for $900 million and Gaddafi's jet for an unfinished water park project that ended in 2010, but French courts struck down the ruling and ordered said company to pay $100 mln to Libya for unfinished contracts and other things). I wrote about this last year in one of my school reports (it was a social sciences report on a third world developing country):
According to The Libya Observer, claims have surfaced on UAE71.com of detailed plans for the UAE to secure economic interests in the Libyan economy. First, the plan consists of opening a bank in Tripoli which shall “officially” have 164 million US dollars in capital. The bank shall have several branches located in different cities in Libya. At the helm is Libyan Ambassador to the UAE Arif Ali Nayed, who was designated to be the CEO. The creation of the bank will be announced later this year.

Reporting on the UAE71’s article, The Libya Observer states that “The first step of controlling the Libyan economy is by setting up a group of foreign currency businessmen in the black market because only through them can Al-Nayed control the value of the Libyan Dinar.” According to the article,

“The second step will be by creating a company specialised in port administration in Libya – a concealed part of Dubai’s counterpart – to control the importation and exportation processes in Libya.”

The article continues about the ports that are targeted are the ones in:

“Zuwara, Tobruk, Benghazi, Sirte, Al-Khumus, Misrata, Tripoli and Derna. After that, the bank will buy as many as it could from real estates in Libya, especially those in the free zones, like the free zone in Al-Marisa, Benghazi, and the free zone in Zuwara- RasAjdair, and the free zone in Misrata.”

The most serious allegations concern what the UAE would do if they decide to reclaim the land purchased by the bank and owned by the multinationals:

“The real estates will be owned by multinational firms, but all officially owned by the UAE, so if Libya seized the lands under the pretext of the great interest in the public, then the UAE will file a lawsuit in any country where Libya has investment assets so that it gets great compensations worth even 1000% more than the real prices of the properties, all because the UAE wants to curtail any ongoing projects in the cities…”

The grave allegations are a great cause for concern at present. The concerns for the implementation of the plan are not without merit. With Libya’s feeble economy due to its previously low oil revenue and the lack of cash reserves in the banks, an injection of 164 million US dollars into the Libyan economy is highly attractive. The Libya Observer states that “according to experts, finishing up the projects in the Libyan free zones can considerably attribute to a boost in trade, and industry given the geographical position it is located in and the moderate climate, as well as the long coast and the oil and gas resources it has got.” Libya’s geographic location and moderate climate is evidently attractive to “investors.”

Libya has over 100 billion US dollars in stated foreign reserves (though they are frozen for now), several billions of liquid foreign reserves and much more hidden by Gaddafi in “safe locations.” All of these reserves are in the form of gold and precious stones and a lot of currency reserves, meaning that the value of these reserves only has the capacity to rise with time. This is highly lucrative for the UAE, because its economic giant, Dubai, has foreign debts worth 140% of its GDP, as well as 20 billion US dollars in debts to Abu Dhabi, to be paid by 2018. Many foreigners and companies are also leaving as the return to investment falls, potentially leading to stagnation, recession, or even the collapse of the UAE. This has not been the first time someone tried to steal Libya’s assets. A firm from the UAE tried in 2013 to acquire Gaddafi’s plane (that was put in the trust of France) by publishing fake contracts allegedly not paid for by the Libyan Government. The judgement, however, was overturned in Britain’s High Court, on grounds of the lack of credible evidence. It will certainly not be the last time someone tries to acquire Libya’s vulnerable foreign reserves.

The UAE also has regional political ambitions. The UAE argues that the best way of avoiding bloodshed is to establish and maintain the grip of dictatorships in the region. It has directly funded General Haftar in Libya with the necessary military firepower to keep him in power in the East, with 800 million US dollars. This also goes hand-in-hand with Egypt’s support of Haftar. The UAE’s payment for Haftar was only received once he took over the oil terminals in the Oil Crescent last September. It is believed by many that Libyan oil may be the solution to Egypt’s energy crisis, hence the magnitude of Egyptian military aid that reaches Haftar.
Some reports online claim that there is about $200 billion hidden, and the UN Panel of Experts report (2017) shows that some were found in medicine boxes in countries like Uganda and Senegal. There may be even more hidden elsewhere, with unknown beneficiaries having access to the money.

So yeah, there are many other reasons why the UAE supports Haftar.

I do believe that the drones might make the cost a lot less, but the point is that that the support for Haftar is not the answer for the mess. Since he doesn't work, then it may be necessary to install some observation posts through the areas most used by smugglers, and also to put a "buffer zone" between Libya and Egypt. I disagree with the idea of a wall because it is really costly as well as due to its symbolic message that we are separate peoples. Libya's fate and future are dependent on Egypt's whims. I see it like the relationship between America and Mexico. Sure, you can invade us and annex us, and there would be very little we can do about it, but Egypt doesn't do that because it does not want to. A good idea might also be to use satellites to monitor the area and only launch a drone when there is a violation. The massive base built earlier last year might help with a land-based interception which would be cheaper.
 
PS. I hope it doesn't sound like a rant against the UAE.
 
I believe that the endgame of the UAE is the undermining of democracy as far as possible. If you loom at the UAE itself and the leadership of autocracies like KSA, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco and Oman, as well as Haftar's part of Libya, you will see that the monarchs and presidents have the very same narratives. The narrative is that the people are "not ready for democracy" ( https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180322-sisi-egypt-not-ready-for-democracy/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-ready-for-democracy-says-military-strongman ) and that they are in need for a "strong ruler" in order to bring control and order to the place. Libya was destabilised (although one could argue that it wasn't stable in the first place) by foreign support for domestic forces as well as foreign forces themselves. Tunisia has also had a tumultuous relationship with the UAE, accusing it of trying to bribe Tunisian press and even its army itself. The fact that the UAE controls the "security belt" in Yemen and routinely compromises the government there means that they could easily make the past death and destruction as a future argument for the notion that Arabs can't be given their freedom. I believe that the UAE has had a very major role in the conflict in Libya. The UN Panel of Experts report last year showed that the UAE had manned and unmanned aircraft, helicopters, and a lot of equipment given to Haftar, including Saudi-supplied technicals and their very fanciest of APCs. They have also supplied a Mi-35M hind and many other types of equipment.

Libya is also a very important place for the UAE because it is where a lot of Emirati business goes. A few weeks ago, it was revealed that 73% of all medical supplies sold to Libya by the UAE in Eastern Libya were made up of medicins that were out of date or unusable. The cost for producing one crate full of medicine was quoted to be about $4000, but to dispose of it takes $23000, so they decided to sell them on to Libya, where Haftar's authority approved every one of them for human consumption. This means that should they find their way to people, these people would certainly become ill, and they would suffer from the carcinogenic effects of the outdated medicine. Should it be earmarked for waste and put in a dump, it has serious environmental consequences, that may cause permanent damage to the ecosystem.

The fact that the UAE has invested so much money into its operations in Libya does not necessarily mean that they're spending their own money on this conflict. In fact, they use the money coming from assets meant to be frozen due to the global asset freeze. Their excuse for using this money is that the "legitimate" Libyan Govt requested them to unfreeze said assets in order to buy necessary foodstuffs and staples of everyday life. The UAE has essentially spent tens of billions of dollars in Libyan money, and for free, it has received influence in Africa's richest country (and half a proxy state), a lot of free money to help with its industrialisation, a wider geopolitical influence, a place where its firms save a lot of money (selling out-of-date products, and also prioritising Emirati businesses in Libyan contracts), a place where they can do some target practice and also a country to sue worldwide (an Emirati company once tried to sue for $900 million and Gaddafi's jet for an unfinished water park project that ended in 2010, but French courts struck down the ruling and ordered said company to pay $100 mln to Libya for unfinished contracts and other things). I wrote about this last year in one of my school reports (it was a social sciences report on a third world developing country):

Some reports online claim that there is about $200 billion hidden, and the UN Panel of Experts report (2017) shows that some were found in medicine boxes in countries like Uganda and Senegal. There may be even more hidden elsewhere, with unknown beneficiaries having access to the money.

So yeah, there are many other reasons why the UAE supports Haftar.

I do believe that the drones might make the cost a lot less, but the point is that that the support for Haftar is not the answer for the mess. Since he doesn't work, then it may be necessary to install some observation posts through the areas most used by smugglers, and also to put a "buffer zone" between Libya and Egypt. I disagree with the idea of a wall because it is really costly as well as due to its symbolic message that we are separate peoples. Libya's fate and future are dependent on Egypt's whims. I see it like the relationship between America and Mexico. Sure, you can invade us and annex us, and there would be very little we can do about it, but Egypt doesn't do that because it does not want to. A good idea might also be to use satellites to monitor the area and only launch a drone when there is a violation. The massive base built earlier last year might help with a land-based interception which would be cheaper.

As long as the Fight/Conflict is OUTSIDE/FAR from the border... The INSIDE border will be safe...
It's the same tactics as any country who is in Danger and Seeking influence... Iran does it... the US/Russia and so on...
So if you don't see any conflict around... the simplest way is to create some...
 
I disagree with the idea of a wall because it is really costly as well as due to its symbolic message that we are separate peoples.

That's my opinion also. I misunderstood you when you said "border security" would be more effective and cheaper. I thought you meant build a wall which is what prompted the wall discussion.

Sure, you can invade us and annex us, and there would be very little we can do about it

I highly doubt Egypt would be successfully capable of such a feat TBH. As strong as the military might be, that's a tall order and being realistic, I don't think the Egyptian army not only doesn't have the wherewithal, but neither the capability for an invasion of Libya. Besides the fact that it wouldn't serve any purpose except exacerbate an already exhausted situation, it would add an unimaginable burden on Egypt that it could hardly afford at this point. Totally unproductive.

but Egypt doesn't do that because it does not want to.

We've been brothers and sisters forever. There should be a lot more love going on and what is happening is really too bad.

It's a very big price to pay to get rid of Arab dictatorships and it's even worst when outside superpowers are involved and the only real reason they get involved is not because of the great concept of democracy, that couldn't be further from the truth but rather the prospect of the economical benefit of controlling the primary natural resource.

I believe that the endgame of the UAE is the undermining of democracy as far as possible. If you loom at the UAE itself and the leadership of autocracies like KSA, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco and Oman, as well as Haftar's part of Libya, you will see that the monarchs and presidents have the very same narratives. The narrative is that the people are "not ready for democracy" ( https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20180322-sisi-egypt-not-ready-for-democracy/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...e-ready-for-democracy-says-military-strongman ) and that they are in need for a "strong ruler" in order to bring control and order to the place.

But isn't Libya quite distant from the UAE? Unless you think there is some active conspiracy between Egypt and the UAE to keep democracy away from Egypt itself, that I can see. But it's hard to accept the concept of squashing a possible democracy that would be thousands of km away from them just for the sake of diffusing any possible change to the standard monarchical or dictatorial leadership in the Arab world, let alone in the UAE. There must be some other motivation for the UAE in all of this, considering the tremendous amount of money they've invested in this war.

As far as Egypt is concerned, IMO, I do share the same concerns about a true, democratic process with such a divided population. We saw the result of that with Morsi. The makeup of Muslim countries makes democracy a very challenging proposition in the sense that democracy -- as we know it -- is not conducive with Islam on many levels. It works much better in largely dominated secular societies and Egypt is the prime example of why it has failed and will probably keep failing. Maybe failing is too strong of a word and "manipulated" might be better.

Looking at the recent elections in Egypt, it doesn't take a genius to realize what happened, of course. But the kicker will be in the next election since Sisi's full eligibility for 2 terms will be up and technically he won't be allowed to run again. What happens from here on until then will be critical to see if there will be any semblance of democracy.

And let's face it, it's much easier to have democracy in a smaller country like Tunisia which took advantage of the timing and speed of the revolution. It happened almost overnight where none of the outside powers got a chance to jump in and change the path. It's also a much less divided society (despite the large number of Islamist who have left to fight with ISIS), they don't have that dominant, Islamic organization that is quite prevalent in Egypt and other Arab countries. It's also not dominated by the military like in Egypt. That's another huge problem in Arab countries. The army has tremendous strength and with that strength comes that control which influences power. Factor all those elements and I think it's easy to see why Sisi would say Egypt is not ready for democracy and you'll also see why the overwhelming majority support that idea.
 
That's my opinion also. I misunderstood you when you said "border security" would be more effective and cheaper. I thought you meant build a wall which is what prompted the wall discussion.



I highly doubt Egypt would be successfully capable of such a feat TBH. As strong as the military might be, that's a tall order and being realistic, I don't think the Egyptian army not only doesn't have the wherewithal, but neither the capability for an invasion of Libya. Besides the fact that it wouldn't serve any purpose except exacerbate an already exhausted situation, it would add an unimaginable burden on Egypt that it could hardly afford at this point. Totally unproductive.



We've been brothers and sisters forever. There should be a lot more love going on and what is happening is really too bad.
You are right. We are brothers and sisters, and building a wall won't really do much good.An invasion is also unlikely, as I don't really think that there will be any motivation to do this. You are right to say that Egypt is in a very tight place in here.

It's a very big price to pay to get rid of Arab dictatorships and it's even worst when outside superpowers are involved and the only real reason they get involved is not because of the great concept of democracy, that couldn't be further from the truth but rather the prospect of the economical benefit of controlling the primary natural resource.
I believe that the reason why the Arab Revolutions and the ascent of democracy have failed is mainly due to the fact that there is no organized force for Democracy. Nobody believes that the outside powers want a democracy in the Middle East. Every democratic country is a sovereign and strong country, two things they definitely don't want anywhere in the Middle East. If the country was the power's friend, it will end up like France and Turkey, with an independent foreign policy and a might that will bend the power's (in this case, American) wishes. If not, it will end up like Iran. We as Arabs are not easy to control, and we are paying the ultimate price for daring to stand up for our rights.

But isn't Libya quite distant from the UAE? Unless you think there is some active conspiracy between Egypt and the UAE to keep democracy away from Egypt itself, that I can see. But it's hard to accept the concept of squashing a possible democracy that would be thousands of km away from them just for the sake of diffusing any possible change to the standard monarchical or dictatorial leadership in the Arab world, let alone in the UAE. There must be some other motivation for the UAE in all of this, considering the tremendous amount of money they've invested in this war.
I believe that the emergence of a democracy in Libya may pave the way to the democratization of the rest of the Middle East due to its proximity to the heart of the Arab world, which is Egypt. The fact that Libya has a lot of oil per capita has prompted many people from places as far as Bangladesh to work in Libya, but before the war, Egyptians used to make up anywhere from 3% (200k) to 30% (2M) of our population.
The trouble with Tunisia is that it could wait. Its economic situation isn't getting better any time soon. But in Libya, it has a lot of money to prop up a massive public sector, so it is kind of like a UAE-style economic splurge that was planned by Islamist governments controlling the National Transitional Council and the Government of National Salvation. In the case of Libya, were all sanctions put down and funnelled to the government, it would have had the capacity, with enough reform, to make a Gulf State in North Africa. The immediate fear was that it would make democracy look viable. Libya was also unique in the fact that it is vulnerable and fractures, which would aid any deployment to its land, as it would be secret and would massively help any party they would like to win.
If Egypt goes democratic, so will many other countries around it. Because Egypt makes a primary part of Arabic culture and there is widespread Egyptian influence in the region. To risk losing Egypt would mean risking losing much of the Middle East.

As far as Egypt is concerned, IMO, I do share the same concerns about a true, democratic process with such a divided population. We saw the result of that with Morsi. The makeup of Muslim countries makes democracy a very challenging proposition in the sense that democracy -- as we know it -- is not conducive with Islam on many levels. It works much better in largely dominated secular societies and Egypt is the prime example of why it has failed and will probably keep failing. Maybe failing is too strong of a word and "manipulated" might be better.
I believe that the problem isn't really in Egypt, but the fact that there are so many foreign powers interfering, trying their best to get their interests to the front, that they essentially sabotage democracy for their interests. If you look at the democracies of Malaysia, Turkey and Indonesia, they are all large democratic Muslim countries, that in the cases of Malaysia and Turkey, are even more diverse than Egypt. The reason why so many youths support the democratic process nowadays is due to the feeling of despair over more of the same. Mubarak brought the same, and so did Sadat, after the change brought by Nasser. But the main pitch of El Sissi is that there will be more of the same. Democracy is by its nature messy and sometimes unstable, especially in its first years, but the good thing about it is that it doesn't kill or imprison people along the way. The good thing for Egypt is the fact that it has a very strong civil society, that gengs don't rule the majority of streets like in Latin America, and villages aren't burned down because a warlord was unsatisfied, as what happens in the DRC and South Sudan. This brings a hope that as long as the guys on top allowed, it can be democratic, and it can be a relatively clean democracy.
Looking at the recent elections in Egypt, it doesn't take a genius to realize what happened, of course. But the kicker will be in the next election since Sisi's full eligibility for 2 terms will be up and technically he won't be allowed to run again. What happens from here on until then will be critical to see if there will be any semblance of democracy.

And let's face it, it's much easier to have democracy in a smaller country like Tunisia which took advantage of the timing and speed of the revolution. It happened almost overnight where none of the outside powers got a chance to jump in and change the path. It's also a much less divided society (despite the large number of Islamist who have left to fight with ISIS), they don't have that dominant, Islamic organization that is quite prevalent in Egypt and other Arab countries. It's also not dominated by the military like in Egypt. That's another huge problem in Arab countries. The army has tremendous strength and with that strength comes that control which influences power. Factor all those elements and I think it's easy to see why Sisi would say Egypt is not ready for democracy and you'll also see why the overwhelming majority support that idea.
I do agree that Egypt was not quite ready institutionally for a democracy. I also hope that the constitution proves strong enough to bring El Sissi down if he tries for a third term.

The democracy in Tunisia actually started growing as embryo decades back, even before the time of Ben Ali. The elites at the time made sure that the Army is weakened, and therefore has no bargaining chips anywhere in the field of politics. It also has had an adventure with a free press. Its press has stayed somewhat independent of the state and elite for decades, which has also made it easier to transition. It also has all the courts as independent institutions, which means that many dissidents and other people had a right to a fair trial. So it was essentially a democracy without the ruler, but with everything else in place. I believe that Egypt must follow the same path.

If we look at the reasons for what happened in 2013, it becomes quite clear that Egypt's first attempt on democracy was premature. The constitution was very ambiguous, and so are the laws, meaning that anybody could do anything while not technically violating the constitution. This was the main reason, in my eyes, for the constitutional crisis. The election of Morsi also did a lot to polarise the divide between the civilian and military Governments. The Egyptian Army is independent, which meant that its dominance was feared by the likes of Morsi and the civilian govt, which unleashed a power struggle, which ended after Morsi tried to dissolve the Parliament. This power struggle meant the difference between an unchecked (potentially dictatorial) Morsi and an unchecked Army.

However, Sissi could do a lot more to allow democracy to take its first tentative steps without having to resort to elections. He could allow for a free press, stop imprisoning a lot of folks, and he could allow a concise constitution to solidify. But there is also another factor to take in, which is the fact that any of these would increase opposition to his rule. Freeing a lot of political prisoners will not mean that they will like him, but it will mean a larger threat to his rule. Having a concise constitution is like putting yourself in a cage. It does nothing but costrain the powers of the president.

So I believe that there will just be more of the same, but if the campaign to silence dissent continues, things may end up quite ugly.
 
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