East Sea: Luck and unluck

[Fanling Monk]

Of course criminals [eg pirates] will always find ways to deny their crimes, but law is law, there is no exception.
Imagine in a society a thug says that the laws will be not applied in the case of its, because it is a gangster having many guns....

You can say the same to Vietnam

Vietnam occupied, controlled peacefully from long time in the past, hundreds years ago. Man Qing Dynasty China accepted that Islands belong to Vietnam, We didn't have troubles with China in the past.

Baloney! All fishermen in this area fished here for thousands of years and they also utilized these shoals to avoid bad weathers. No one lived/occupied these shoals in the past because lives were not sustainable here.

 

[Alpery]

Qing Dynasty accepted that Islands belong to Vietnam

ok.

 

[dunhill]

I careless Qing, Ching, Song or whatever China dynasty is. Base on the document on the very last century 19,20 China has nothing to claims. Period. (not until 1949 China started draw maps under R.O.C administrations)

If China would like make wars to Viet Nam or any country, then feels free to do so. I'm really tire on this matter with Chinese now.

 

[Rechoice]

You can say the same to Vietnam




Baloney! All fishermen in this area fished here for thousands of years and they also utilized these shoals to avoid bad weathers. No one lived/occupied these shoals in the past because lives were not sustainable here.

But Vietnam's Nguyen Kingdom did it, we has been controlled Islands, with official documents issued by Emperor for patrol and exploitation fish-resource in area. Hoang Sa Flotia was created which had a main duty to do it.

 

[Fanling Monk]

But Vietnam's Nguyen Kingdom did it, we has been controlled Islands, with official documents issued by Emperor for patrol and exploitation fish-resource in area. Hoang Sa Flotia was created which had a main duty to do it.

So did the Filipinos, the Malays and the Chinese. Let's not forget this area is the richest fishing ground and historical all fishermen from neighborhood countries converged here to make their living. It never been one country, if there was such thing as one country per se centuries ago, control all these shoals. It was simply everybody's game without any government's interferences and besides in ancient times governments didn't care about these kind of things as they were too busy fight against each other on lands.

On conclusion, a few hundred years ago, this area had no government control it was simply free for all for the fishermen and the pirates as many blood were spilled.

 

[vtnsx]

So did the Filipinos, the Malays and the Chinese. Let's not forget this area is the richest fishing ground and historical all fishermen from neighborhood countries converged here to make their living. It never been one country, if there was such thing as one country per se centuries ago, control all these shoals. It was simply everybody's game without any government's interferences and besides in ancient times governments didn't care about these kind of things as they were too busy fight against each other on lands.

On conclusion, a few hundred years ago, this area had no government control it was simply free for all for the fishermen and the pirates as many blood were spilled.

umm, you must have been eating fake eggs. A few hundred years ago, that area had Vietnamese control.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

So did the Filipinos, the Malays and the Chinese. Let's not forget this area is the richest fishing ground and historical all fishermen from neighborhood countries converged here to make their living. It never been one country, if there was such thing as one country per se centuries ago, control all these shoals. It was simply everybody's game without any government's interferences and besides in ancient times governments didn't care about these kind of things as they were too busy fight against each other on lands.

On conclusion, a few hundred years ago, this area had no government control it was simply free for all for the fishermen and the pirates as many blood were spilled.

You're wrong.

We have ancient historical documents record the enforcement actions of state sovereignty Vietnamese feudal State on two archipelagos Paracels and Spratlys from many centuries ago.

We have the ancient maps of the Vietnamese feudal State always draw the two archipelagos and asserted they were territories of Vietnam.

We have the ancient maps were drawn by European mariners also shown the two archipelagos belong to Vietnam.

We're holding the ancient maps were drawn by China's feudal dynasties, which did not claim the two archipelagos of Vietnam.

We all know the two points of time that China has used of force to invade and occupied illegally Paracel Islands of South Vietnam from 1974 and some coral reefs of Spratly Islands of Vietnam from 1988.


Some pages of ancient documents of Vietnamese feudal state that recorded about the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys): (photos)
Note: at that time Vietnamese feudal state was still using Chinese characters.

Some photos of ancient maps of Vietnamese feudal state that drawn about the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys):

Some photos of ancient maps of European mariners that drawn the two archipelagos of Hoang Sa (Paracels) and Truong Sa (Spratlys) were territories of Vietnam:

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

And here is a map of China in 1904 published by Publishing House of Shanghai under the Qing dynasty, which admitted two archipelagoes of Paracels and Spratlys were not the Chinese territory:
[Currently, Vietnam is holding one]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/197629-1904-china-map-admits-paracel-spratly-not-chinese-territory.html

 

[Fanling Monk]

Get real here people. Any one sided documents or maps are self serving and cannot sustain rigorous scrutinies, and also, others can produce the same 'convincing' proofs if they so desired. The ground reality is those barren rocks/shoal in the SCS belonged to no one historically because they were life unsubstantiated and no government would and could physical occupied them until recent years when technologies are more advanced. So any proofs of ownerships is useless and unrecognized by any laws.

If one takes a look at those 'islands' in a map, he'll realize they situate right in the middle of all the claimant countries, albeit closer to the Philippines and Malaysia. If we go back to history, how can we view them as anything else other than the converging grounds for the fishermen plying their trades here. There were no military significant for any country of the time and not even pirates can station here other then occasional hit and run.

I see winners take here . I also can see Vietnam is not doing too bad by grabbing 40 shoals without anybody realized although quite a few of them (16) are within Philippines' EEZ.

 

[vtnsx]

Get real here people. Any one sided documents or maps are self serving and cannot sustain rigorous scrutinies, and also, others can produce the same 'convincing' proofs if they so desired. The ground reality is those barren rocks/shoal in the SCS belonged to no one historically because they were life unsubstantiated and no government would and could physical occupied them until recent years when technologies are more advanced. So any proofs of ownerships is useless and unrecognized by any laws.

If one takes a look at those 'islands' in a map, he'll realize they situate right in the middle of all the claimant countries, albeit closer to the Philippines and Malaysia. If we go back to history, how can we view them as anything else other than the converging grounds for the fishermen plying their trades here. There were no military significant for any country of the time and not even pirates can station here other then occasional hit and run.

I see winners take here . I also can see Vietnam is not doing too bad by grabbing 40 shoals without anybody realized although quite a few of them (16) are within Philippines' EEZ.

What are you suggesting? an endless war to deal with land disputes? You do realize you're not the only one living on this planet right? because that's as real as it can get. Do you even know why there's an international law? If you believe you own everything why don't you send your 1.3 billion people to war with the world. You brain dead child.

 

[SinoChallenger]

What are you suggesting? an endless war to deal with land disputes? You do realize you're not the only one living on this planet right? because that's as real as it can get. Do you even know why there's an international law? If you believe you own everything why don't you send your 1.3 billion people to war with the world. You brain dead child.

Not an endless war but a massive armored thrust into Hanoi to finish little Viets forever. The only law you must obey is China's law. That's why we are called the "Middle Kingdom."

 

[Fanling Monk]

What are you suggesting? an endless war to deal with land disputes? You do realize you're not the only one living on this planet right? because that's as real as it can get. Do you even know why there's an international law? If you believe you own everything why don't you send your 1.3 billion people to war with the world. You brain dead child.

I didn't suggest anything and since a I'm brain dead child, like you say, I won't suggest anything either. You seem to have all the answers anyway.

BTW I like your ancient maps where the cartographers drew all the dispute islands so close to you mainland. They must had some kind of foresight that someday these islands would be in dispute.

 

[EastSea]

Not an endless war but a massive armored thrust into Hanoi to finish little Viets forever. The only law you must obey is China's law. That's why we are called the "Middle Kingdom."

You, Han Chinese must turn back to where called "Middle Kingdom" in 中原 area, where such laws of Ah Q should be applied.

 

[EastSea]

I didn't suggest anything and since a I'm brain dead child, like you say, I won't suggest anything either. You seem to have all the answers anyway.

BTW I like your ancient maps where the cartographers drew all the dispute islands so close to you mainland. They must had some kind of foresight that someday these islands would be in dispute.

No, our ancestors didn't think Chinese should changed their mind later on.
it's closely drawing, for demonstration that Islands belong to us, the distance in such old map is less important because all ancient map have been made in the same idea, including maps made by Chinese in the past.

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Get real here people. Any one sided documents or maps are self serving and cannot sustain rigorous scrutinies, and also, others can produce the same 'convincing' proofs if they so desired. The ground reality is those barren rocks/shoal in the SCS belonged to no one historically because they were life unsubstantiated and no government would and could physical occupied them until recent years when technologies are more advanced. So any proofs of ownerships is useless and unrecognized by any laws.

If one takes a look at those 'islands' in a map, he'll realize they situate right in the middle of all the claimant countries, albeit closer to the Philippines and Malaysia. If we go back to history, how can we view them as anything else other than the converging grounds for the fishermen plying their trades here. There were no military significant for any country of the time and not even pirates can station here other then occasional hit and run.

I see winners take here . I also can see Vietnam is not doing too bad by grabbing 40 shoals without anybody realized although quite a few of them (16) are within Philippines' EEZ.

The enforcement actions sovereignty of Vietnam feudal state which does not mean that we must living on the two archipelagos.
Vietnamese feudal state formed a team called "Team Paracel boats" to manage and exploit on the two archipelagos, and enforcement actions sovereignty as sovereignty markers plug, plug flagpole .. . on the two archipelagos and archipelagos mapping.

First, the Chinese said loudly that it has sovereignty in 2000 years of history on the islands.
Then we have the evidences from both Vietnam and China to refute chinese claims, now the chinese turn to say that it is the deserted islands, no one has owned them.

You say you can "produce" evidence? I think with the ability to make fake of everything of Chinese, you can do, but remember that with the advanced technology of today, any fake evidence will be unmasked.

You cannot compare China with the Philippines and Malaysia.
The arrival of Chinese on both archipelagos by using of force to invade them from Vietnam in 1974 and 1988. The actions using of force to rob from others is not acceptable.
Dont try to equate the Chinese robbers with the Philippines and Malaysia. They are completely different from yours.