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Dutch far-right party says it will ban Mosques, Quran

That is a very anti-American statement to make....The constitution does not guarantee any form of personal safety from violence at all...it guarantees privacy and a right to bear arms and a right to self-defence.

I disagree. The most basic of "rights" under the US Constitution is the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. All rights guaranteed under the various Amendments are subject to limitations to preserve the right to life.
 
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I disagree. The most basic of "rights" under the US Constitution is the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. All rights guaranteed under the various Amendments are subject to limitations to preserve the right to life.
Sorry that's a common mistake people make....the US Constitution does not provide any right to life...the phrase you quoted is from the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution. The 14th amendment does mention life...but it only says the government cannot deprive you of life(kill you) without due process. The Declaration of Independence is not the basis of American law...if it were the very sentence All men are created equal...endowed by their creator....right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness would mean the abolition of slavery with the formation of an Independent America.
 
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Wreker van zijn Indische grootouders
Now we know. He is a Indian ...

Indisch > Dutch East Indies > Indonesia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies

"He was born to a Dutch father and a mother born in colonial Indonesia,whose ancestors were Dutch Indonesian"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

The reference to his mother says she descends from Dutch settlers. You can't simply assume his mother was ethnic Indonesian... mixed more likely.

How else do you explain the use of the term Dutch Indonesian? Or African or European or Mexican or Korean American.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo_people

Wilders specifically takes issue with the Islamic faith. Not with people's ethnic background. Please note that there is a difference.

Sorry that's a common mistake people make....the US Constitution does not provide any right to life...the phrase you quoted is from the Declaration of Independence not the Constitution. The 14th amendment does mention life...but it only says the government cannot deprive you of life(kill you) without due process. The Declaration of Independence is not the basis of American law...if it were the very sentence All men are created equal...endowed by their creator....right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness would mean the abolition of slavery with the formation of an Independent America.
Actually, that depended on who you considered 'men' > the black man for a long time wasn't considered 'men', and women were excluded for a long time too!
 
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Indisch > Dutch East Indies > Indonesia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_East_Indies

"He was born to a Dutch father and a mother born in colonial Indonesia,whose ancestors were Dutch Indonesian"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

The reference to his mother says she descends from Dutch settlers. You can't simply assume his mother was ethnic Indonesian... mixed more likely.

How else do you explain the use of the term Dutch Indonesian? Or African or European or Mexican or Korean American.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo_people

Wilders specifically takes issue with the Islamic faith. Not with people's ethnic background. Please note that there is a difference.


Actually, that depended on who you considered 'men' > the black man for a long time wasn't considered 'men', and women were excluded for a long time too!

Thanks for the info bro.
 
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"He was born to a Dutch father and a mother born
I know. I was only joking and taking a pot shot at the "Indische" or the Indian's here who will claim anything on the face of earth which as the three letters "Ind" as Greater India.

Wilders specifically takes issue with the Islamic faith
No. He is racist. Period. He is using the "Islam" card as a veil to hide his latent prejudices. Islam is just a abbreviation for racism.

You know and I know most Muslims Geert is on about are not European. Most migrants in Netherlands are Muslim. if they had all be Hindu he would have goping after Hindus. If they had all been Black Christians then he would have found some other adjective.

If indeed he was serious (as I am about radicals) he would differantiate between political Islam or Islamism which has gained ascendancy in last three decades and address those causes as opposed to turning against an entire faith which is down outright pathetic.
 
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I know. I was only joking and taking a pot shot at the "Indische" or the Indian's here who will claim anything on the face of earth which as the three letters "Ind" as Greater India.

No. He is racist. Period. He is using the "Islam" card as a veil to hide his latent prejudices. Islam is just a abbreviation for racism.

You know and I know most Muslims Geert is on about are not European. Most migrants in Netherlands are Muslim. if they had all be Hindu he would have goping after Hindus. If they had all been Black Christians then he would have found some other adjective.

If indeed he was serious (as I am about radicals) he would differantiate between political Islam or Islamism which has gained ascendancy in last three decades and address those causes as opposed to turning against an entire faith which is down outright pathetic.

Wilders argues that Islam is not a religion, but rather a totalitarian political ideology such as communism and fascism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders#Political_views

But I'm sure you know Dutch politics and politicians better than I do...

I've taken the liberty of checking CBS (Central Statistics Bureau of the Netherlands) data on requests for asylum by nationality, 1970 - 2015. Just to see where asylum seekers are from.

http://statline.cbs.nl/Statweb/publ...l&D3=0,10,20,30,35,37-40&HDR=T,G2&STB=G1&VW=T

In 1985, 37% of requests were from people from Sri Lanka, 18% from Turkey, 10% from Surinam and 9% from Iran. (74%)
In 1995, 21% of requests were from people from former Yugoslavia, 14% from Somalia, 9% from Iran, 8% from Irak, 7% from Afghanistan, 6% from FSU and 5% from Sri Lanka (70%)
In 2005, 13% of request were from Iraqis, 11% unknown or without nationality, 11% from Somalians, 10% from FSU, 7% Afghanis, 5% Iranians and 4% former Yugoslavia. (61%)
In 2010, its 24% Somalian, 13% Iraqi, 12% FSU, 11% Afghan, 6% Iranian, 5% unknown or without nationality (71%).
In 2015, its 47% Syrian, 14% Eritrean, 10% unknown or without nationality, 6% Iraqi, 5% Afghani, 4% Iranian (86%)

As you can see, peak national origins vary considerably over time. How that relates to religion? Depends on the statistics for the country of origin, as well as who is fleeing elsewhere (and why).

Afghanistan: 100% Muslim, unaffiliated 0%
Iran: 100% Muslim, unaffiliated 0%
Somalia: 100% Muslim, unaffiliated 0%
Iraq: 99% Muslim, unaffiliated 0%
Turkey: 98% Muslim, unaffiliated 1%
Syria: 94% Muslim, 5% Christian, unaffiliated 2%
Eritrea: 63% Christian, 37% Muslim, unaffiliated 0%
Surinam: 52% Christian, 30% Hindu, 15% Muslim, unaffiliated 5%
Sri Lanka: 70% Buddhist, 14% Hindu, 10% Muslim, 7% Christian, unaffiliated 0%
FSU: unknown, for Russia its: 73% Christian, 16% unaffiliated, 10% Muslim
Former Yugoslavia: Predominantly Christian (Catholic and Orthodox), Muslim around 10%

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religions_by_country

Surinam, Turkey are traditional immigrant groups in the Netherlands. One is predominantly a Christian nation, the other a Muslim nation. As for the other nations, it depends mostly on where conflict and/or oppression occurs.
Correlate with Wars by Date https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outline_of_war#History_of_war

On the whole, religiousness (of any kind) is greater outside and to the south of Europe
Religion_in_the_world.PNG


Predominant religion
World_religions.PNG


Locations of ongoing conflicts worldwide, Update: June 2016
512px-Ongoing_conflicts_around_the_world.svg.png

Reddish brown = Major wars, 10,000+ deaths in current or past year
Red = Wars, 1,000–9,999 deaths in current or past year
Orange = Minor conflicts, 100–999 deaths in current or past year
Yellow = Skirmishes and clashes, fewer than 100 deaths.

Most migrants in Netherlands are Muslim
You mean a) among immigrants annually i.e. among new entrants or b) in the general population i.e. with a migrant background. If the latter, you really have to keep in mind the we have a substantial group of people descendant from people from former colonies (Surinam, Indonesia) and from Morocco and Turkey (1960-1970s) "guest workers". Not quite the same are streams of people fleeing conflicted areas.

Also, there is a difference between MIGRANT (economic motive) and ASYLUMSEEKER (political prosecution/safety motive), which is reflected in who gains entrance and who gets to stay. Currently, predominantly catholic Poles are actually a significant group of migrants. Muslem people from Syria are currently a signigiant group among asylum seekers.
 
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Migration balance NL, by country of origin

1995
Total 32.778 (100%)
Bosnia-Herzegovina 5437 (+16,6%)
Turkey 3161 (+9,6%)
Somalia 2676 (+8,2%)
Iran 2475 (+7,6%)
Iraq 2408 (+7,3%)
Germany 2079 (+6,3%)
Morocco 1758 (+5,4%)
Surinam 1593 (+4,9%)

2005
Total 8.898 (100%)
Poland 5671 (+63,7%)
China 2083 (+23,4%)
Turkey 1572 (+17,7%)
Morocco 1537 (+17,3%)
India 793 (+8,9%)
Ghana 755 (+8,5%)
Surinam 753 (+8,5%)
Pakistan 714 (+8,0%)
Brazil 540 (+6,1%)
Russia 532 (+6,0%)
Italy 495 (+5,6%)
Indonesia 470 (+5,3%)
Nigeria 447 (+5,0%)

2015
Total 7.7731 (100%)
Syria 15080 (+19,4%)
Poland 13279 (+17,1%)
Eritrea 3743 (+4,8%)

http://statline.cbs.nl/Statweb/publ...248&D4=0&D5=0,10,l&HDR=T,G3,G4&STB=G1,G2&VW=T

Note: In case you were wondering about the percentages, there are also countries where migration balance is negative.
 
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But I'm sure you know Dutch politics and politicians better than I do...
No. I assume your Dutch, how could I possibly know more than you. I suppose that settles the debate?

Just as entry point you do know that I am absolutely, a hardcore secularist. I am as much repulsed by some here like @Luffy 500 as much as the far right.However, I don't regard Islam as a threat to anybody. I have no idea how old you are but in my 53 years I have seen all sorts of terrorism emanate from across the political spectrum. I have seen some groups reviled like the Irish and then rehabilitated. I have seen some go from heroes of freedom to evil personified - the Muslims.

I regard Islamism - a mutation of Islam that seeks to leverage political order using religion as vehicle with implied backing of god as evil. Such mutations have infected other religions, other political streams as much in history and if you are well read then you will be more than aware.You must understand that Islam to a lay observor would appear to be just a branch of the other Abrahamic faiths and largely beats to the same rhythm.

I don't have time to move forward with this debate right now but I would like to rejoin this when I get the time. I want to look at exactly how, what appear to be intelligent people, get caught in what to me is nothing but rabble rouser working at the lowest common denominator. Slightly better then that other master of fishing in muck - the beer hall putschist from Austria.

Evening.
 
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Population Origin, for 1 januari 2006, 1 januari 2010, 1 januari 2015, 1 januari 2016

Total populace: 16,334,210; 16,574,989; 16,900,726; 16,980,049 (16-17 million total)
Dutch: 13,186,595; 13,215,386; 13,235,405; 13,226,364 (13 million)
Foreign: 3,147,615; 3,359,603; 3,665,321; 3,753,685 (3-4 million non-Dutch)
of which
Western: 1,427,565; 1,501,309; 1,626,812; 1,656,580 (about 1.4 to 1.7 million Western foreigner)
Non-western: 1,720,050; 1,858,294; 2,038,509; 2,097,105 (about 1.7 to 2.1 million non-Western foreigner)
- Turkey: 364,333; 383,957; 396,555; 397,415
- Morocco: 323,239; 349,005; 380,755; 385,591
- Surinam: 331,890; 342,279; 348,662; 348,903
- (Former) Dutch Antilles and Aruba: 129,683; 138,420; 148,926; 151,016
- All other non-western: 570,905; 644,633; 763,611; 814,180

http://statline.cbs.nl/Statweb/publication/?DM=SLNL&PA=71090ned&D1=0&D2=0&D3=0&D4=a&D5=0&D6=0,48,108,120&HDR=T,G3,G1&STB=G2,G4,G5&VW=T

Foreign as percent of populace went from 19% in 2006 to 22% in 2016
The ratio of Western versus Non-Western foreigner remained virtually the same (45/55 in 2006 and 44/56 in 20216)
The percent Turks (Muslims) among Non-Western foreigner went down from 21% in 2006 to 19% in 2016
The percent Moroccan (Muslims) among Non-Western foreigner went down from 19% in 2006 to 18% in 2016
The percent Surinam (Christian/Hindu) among Non-Western foreigner went down from 19% in 2006 to 17% in 2016
The percent (Former) Dutch Antilles and Aruba ( (Christian/Hindu)) went down from 8% in 2006 to 7% in 2016
The percent of ALL OTHER NON WESTERN went up from 33% in 2006 to 39% in 2016
Amoung the latter category you find the people from:

Afghanistan, Iran, and Somalia: 100% Muslim
Iraq: 99% Muslim
Syria: 94% Muslim
Eritrea: 63% Christian, 37% Muslim
Sri Lanka: 70% Buddhist, 14% Hindu, 10% Muslim, 7% Christian

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/dutch-fa...an-mosques-quran.446139/page-11#ixzz4IfRdgzyi
Growth here (from 570,905 to 814,180 people i.e. +243,275 or +43% ) is 38% of the overall population growth (from 16,334,210 to 16,980,049 people i.e. +645,839 or +4%). It is 40 % of the growth of the foreign population (from 3,147,615 to 3,753,685 people i.e. +606,070 or +19%) and 65% of the growth of the non-western foreign population (from 1,720,050 to 2,097,105 people i.e. +377,055 or +22%).

Of course this rest category also includes non-muslim from non-western countries...

But as an approximation, it is clear that in recent years there has been a shift in the composition and volume of that rest category towards the conflict ridden muslim countries in the Middle East and Africa.

Just as entry point you do know that I am absolutely, a hardcore secularist. ... However, I don't regard Islam as a threat to anybody.
Likewise

I have no idea how old you are but in my 53 years I have seen all sorts of terrorism emanate from across the political spectrum. I have seen some groups reviled like the Irish and then rehabilitated. I have seen some go from heroes of freedom to evil personified - the Muslims.
Same ball park, more or less same experience

I regard Islamism - a mutation of Islam that seeks to leverage political order using religion as vehicle with implied backing of god - as evil. Such mutations have infected other religions, other political streams as much in history and if you are well read then you will be more than aware.You must understand that Islam to a lay observor would appear to be just a branch of the other Abrahamic faiths and largely beats to the same rhythm.
Duely noted.

I don't have time to move forward with this debate right now but I would like to rejoin this when I get the time. I want to look at exactly how, what appear to be intelligent people, get caught in what to me is nothing but rabble rouser working at the lowest common denominator. Slightly better then that other master of fishing in muck - the beer hall putschist from Austria.
Evening.
Wilders sure is a populist. And discriminates. However, I personally would not immediately classify him as rascist (there have been others in recent Dutch political history that are far more deserving of that term). The Parliamentary Documentation Center (Parlementair Documentatie Centrum) of the University of Leiden characterizes the PVV as "populist, with both conservative, liberal, right-wing and left-wing positions". Wilders is good at generating occcasional media attention, but not much else. PVV party has done well in national elections but less so at local and provincial level, where it has has difficulty putting forth (qualified) candidate. The underlying problem is that there is little party apparatus, and what there is run in a highly undemocratic manner. To finance the activities of the PVV, the party relies on private donations. According to Hero Brinkman, the most prominent member to leave the party, the PVV gets most of its finances from certain foreign (American) lobby-groups.

[edit: Wilders today (29th) surprised his party membership with a new election program, which was emailed to them hours before it was made public, so not meant for generating feedback ... /end edit]
 
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Oh yes shame.Good luck on China exploiting you but,as an honourable mention to the Chinese,they'll crush you like a bugg if you show to many islamic tendencies.Just like they do in China,and I don't fault them.

One thing about Europe in the 13th century...it wasn't the most developed place of them all....but nobody f ucked with it.

Bla bla bla

There is as good of a chance of Europeans killing each other as there is of them doing the same to Muslims. Trust me for Every Pakistani that gets deported from the UK the same would happen to Romanians. Europeans hate each other and Brexit proved it which was a vote on immigration from Europe not even the third world. 7

be careful what you wish for Flamer because the Hungarians are itching to take back Transylvania and Szekely land from you.
 
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I disagree. The most basic of "rights" under the US Constitution is the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. All rights guaranteed under the various Amendments are subject to limitations to preserve the right to life.

Nope. The Declaration of Independence has no legal authority. You have your documents mixed up.

Further, the newest amendments to the constitution (logically) are more important than the older ones, legally. That is, if one amendment says alcohol is illegal, and another says it's legal, then the newest one wins. Therefore, the amendment that supercedes all others is the 27th, which restricts pay raises for Congress to not take effect until after the next election. Which, when it comes down to it, doesn't really impact the rest of the constitution.

The closest thing to a "right to life" in the constitution is the 9th amendment, which protects "unenumerated rights", which is a bit vague, but might work.

Generally though, you're "right to life" is simply protected by murder laws. It's illegal to kill you. But generally, people don't have to keep you alive (which, if you think about it would be unworkable, since everyone dies at some point).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution
 
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The French and in general other Westerners are loosing their souls and spirituality.

They who have power in the Judeo-Christian West ultimately wish to target the Quran.


I am not proud that Muslims fought as Britain's colonial troops back in day. It is not proud moment for me to say this. Perhaps it was necessary for livelihood but certainly not proud.
I would have been proud if my ancestors fought with the N.S Germans for their liberation like many British Indians did.

http://inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2009/volume_1/number_3/adolf_hitlers_armed_forces.php


Adolf Hitler’s Armed Forces:
A Triumph for Diversity?

V.K. Clarke
"Triumph of diversity: This is precisely what characterized the German Armed Forces of World War II by the year 1945. While this may be difficult for many historians to accept, it is nevertheless an accurate summation of what happened in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s. Even though the Germans initiated their war with a racist doctrine in mind, one that sought to create a “New Order” for Europe, with Germany at the center and German elites at the top of the European political and racial hierarchy (a German version of the so-called “White man’s burden,” so to speak), the Germans nevertheless had to scrap this racial doctrine for one that promoted internationalism and tolerated multicultural and interethnic cooperation and intimate relations. Many Nazis were deeply affected by the non-Germans with whom they fought and worked. For example, Fritz Freitag ended up throwing Nazi doctrine to the wind, and instead focused on building a Ukrainian liberation army.

In a telephone interview with German World War II survivor “G” (his identity is being protected), I was informed for the first time that foreigners who were working under “forced labor” contracts in Germany were essentially as free as Germans themselves. The forced labor characterization, according to G, was misleading. Foreigners were paid for their work and allowed to bring their families to live in Germany with them. They enjoyed leisure activities while ethnic Germans were slaughtered by the tens-of-thousands on the Eastern Front. Theory and reality in the Third Reich differed in fundamental ways, and unless we speak directly with those who lived in Europe at the time, we will never come to know what really happened between Germans and non-Germans in their day-to-day lives. This study tries to answer this unknown as best as possible, because it has been ignored or overlooked for too long."

Pity that a lot of Soviets prisoners of war died of starvation before they could come home to tell
their countrymen about the luxury life they were living in Eastern Europe.

I am sure You would be proud helping out the Totenkopf units that facilitated such fates?
 
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Bla bla bla

There is as good of a chance of Europeans killing each other as there is of them doing the same to Muslims. Trust me for Every Pakistani that gets deported from the UK the same would happen to Romanians. Europeans hate each other and Brexit proved it which was a vote on immigration from Europe not even the third world. 7

be careful what you wish for Flamer because the Hungarians are itching to take back Transylvania and Szekely land from you.
This Romanian troll make fun of others but has no shame and dignity as still living in UK even after knowing that British voted for Brexit and dont want these poor unskilled eastern European roaming in here with dozen others family members
 
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Pity that a lot of Soviets prisoners of war died of starvation before they could come home to tell
their countrymen about the luxury life they were living in Eastern Europe.

I am sure You would be proud helping out the Totenkopf units that facilitated such fates?
History is written by the victor(s).

Have a read of this @ http://www.tomatobubble.com/worldwarii.html


"We all know the story about World War II. The one about how "The Good Guys" banded together to stop Adolf Hitler and the big bad Germans (and Japanese) from taking over the world.
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There is just one problem with this official version of the history-changing event known as World War II.
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It's a LIE!
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Can you handle the truth about what really happened?"
 
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