Dual Vocational Training - Germany's successful system | Made in Germany

[CrazyZ]

 

[CrazyZ]

 

[Samlee]

This System Made Germany A Global Industrial Power

 

[Crusher]

Yes this is the standard system in Germany to become a qualified technician. It is equivalent to DAE (Diploma of associate engineer) in Pakistan offered by polytechnical colleges and institutes in pakistan. The difference however is that in Germany you spend half of your diploma time (called Ausbildung in german language) in a factory related to your diploma. For example if you are doing a mechanical technician diploma or Ausbildung then you will apply for an open "ausbildung" position in company that works in mechanical engineering field like Automobile companies or Heavy machine manufacturer companies etc.

But Germany has a very different system of education compared to pakistan. Here those children who are the brightest and have the best grades in primary schools are eligible to be admitted in schools called "Gymnasium" where they graduate by passing an exam called "Abitur" which is equivalen to 13 years of education with specialization in either sciences or arts. It is equivalent to our F.Sc + 1 year more, may be also equivalent to A levels. With an Abitur certificate the student is eligible to take admission in a bachelor degree of his field of choice and aptitude directly in a state university called here as "Universität" or applied sciences university called here as "Fachhochschule", earlier they used to have something called "Diplom" which was 17 years education and you would take admission directly in Diplom after Abitur but now they have started the international system of BSC and MSC and now students take admission in BSc and after completing BSc they can join a Masters course if they want. In the previous Diplom system which was equivalent to our MPhil, everyone who would join Diplom will graduate to Diplom Abschluss or Degree. But they made it simpler for people who just want to do a Bachelor by introducing news separate Bachelors and Masters degrees.

Now the students with average grades in primary school, they join special schools called "RealSchule" where they study till 12th. After passing Realschul Abschluss certificate they are eligible to do a diploma in a technical field of their own choice and aptitude like Mechanic/Electrician/Mechatronic assistant/Industry Master/Production Master/Material or Metal analyst/Physical or Chemical Lab assistant etc. which involves 2 or 3 years of practical training in a running industrial company in addition to theoretical classes in a Bildungszentrum (polytechnical institutes). These people with technical ausbildung diplomas through dual training programs are the backbone of the german industrial technical workforce.

There is even a third tier of schools called Hauptschule which is for students who have below average grades in primary school, this is equivalent to our high schools with a certificate of 10th class. These guys still have the chance to join Realschule if they get good grades in Hauptschule 10th class exam, otherwise they just learn low skill work like barber, mason, salesman, carpenter, cook, plumber etc. These are also taught in the form of short diplomas ranging from 6 months to 2 years where just like Dual system they learn both theoretical part and also work concurrently with someone already working in that field.

Every kind of training is governed by various Government agencies in Germany. The Ausbildung/Technical Diploma exams are taken by the special boards headed by Chambers of Commerce and industry to maintain the common standard throughout the country and updating the courses and syllabus according to emerging needs of the industry at any point of time.

 

[HAIDER]

greatest quality of germans, they never believe in adhocism .

 

[Death Professor]

Yes this is the standard system in Germany to become a qualified technician. It is equivalent to DAE (Diploma of associate engineer) in Pakistan offered by polytechnical colleges and institutes in pakistan. The difference however is that in Germany you spend half of your diploma time (called Ausbildung in german language) in a factory related to your diploma. For example if you are doing a mechanical technician diploma or Ausbildung then you will apply for an open "ausbildung" position in company that works in mechanical engineering field like Automobile companies or Heavy machine manufacturer companies etc.

But Germany has a very different system of education compared to pakistan. Here those children who are the brightest and have the best grades in primary schools are eligible to be admitted in schools called "Gymnasium" where they graduate by passing an exam called "Abitur" which is equivalen to 13 years of education with specialization in either sciences or arts. It is equivalent to our F.Sc + 1 year more, may be also equivalent to A levels. With an Abitur certificate the student is eligible to take admission in a bachelor degree of his field of choice and aptitude directly in a state university called here as "Universität" or applied sciences university called here as "Fachhochschule", earlier they used to have something called "Diplom" which was 17 years education and you would take admission directly in Diplom after Abitur but now they have started the international system of BSC and MSC and now students take admission in BSc and after completing BSc they can join a Masters course if they want. In the previous Diplom system which was equivalent to our MPhil, everyone who would join Diplom will graduate to Diplom Abschluss or Degree. But they made it simpler for people who just want to do a Bachelor by introducing news separate Bachelors and Masters degrees.

Now the students with average grades in primary school, they join special schools called "Real Schule" where they study till 12th. After passing Realschul Abschluss certificate they are eligible to do a diploma in a technical field of their own choice and aptitude like Mechanic/Electrician/Mechatronic assistant/Industry Master/Production Master/Material or Metal analyst/Physical or Chemical Lab assistant etc. which involves 2 or 3 years of practical training in a running industrial company in addition to theoretical classes in a Bildungszentrum (polytechnical institutes).

There is even a third tier of schools called Hauptschule which is for students who have below average grades in primary school, this is equivalent to our high schools with a certificate of 10th class. These guys still have the chance to join Realschule if they get good grades in Hauptschule 10th class exam, otherwise they just learn low skill work like barber, mason, salesman, carpenter, cook, plumber etc.

You forgot to introduce the 'incentive part' in this whole discussion. The thing is wage of a person doesn't varies that much, so the guy having technical education is almost earning as much as the guy doing a Phd or research work. This incentivizes people who really like their field to excel and people usually get the jobs that they like and are not forced into jobs just to earn the living. Overall its a good healthy system, but I don't think this could introduced in a developing country like Pakistan, our wage gap is so extreme. There you save and try to do all things by yourself, but here is a pipe is leaking you simply just call a plumber for Rs. 500 instead of working yourself. Mehnat me azmat hai, par hum loogoon ne haram khori, nakama pun aur laziness ko apnay culture ka hissa bna liya hai, hamari quom nahi jagnay wali....

 

[Verve]

This incentivizes people who really like their field to excel and people usually get the jobs that they like and are not forced into jobs just to earn the living.

This is it - the biggest problem in those employed.

 

[Crusher]

You forgot to introduce the 'incentive part' in this whole discussion. The thing is wage of a person doesn't varies that much, so the guy having technical education is almost earning as much as the guy doing a Phd or research work. This incentivizes people who really like their field to excel and people usually get the jobs that they like and are not forced into jobs just to earn the living. Overall its a good healthy system, but I don't think this could introduced in a developing country like Pakistan, our wage gap is so extreme. There you save and try to do all things by yourself, but here is a pipe is leaking you simply just call a plumber for Rs. 500 instead of working yourself. Mehnat me azmat hai, par hum loogoon ne haram khori, nakama pun aur laziness ko apnay culture ka hissa bna liya hai, hamari quom nahi jagnay wali....

There is a gap but there are legal caps on the salaries so that the gaps never exceed an allowed limit between salaries of technical diploma holder personnel and a BSc/MSc/Phd degree holder Engineer. Germans have a strong sense of social solidarity so a BSc/MSc Mechanical Engineer doesn't mind that his Assistant Ausbildung/diploma holder is getting a salary that may be equal to 2/3 or sometimes even 3/4 of his own salary depending on the experience. The number of years for on job experience plays a big role in salaries.

 

[Death Professor]

There is a gap but there are legal caps on the salaries so that the gaps never exceed an allowed limit between salaries of technical diploma holder personnel and a BSc/MSc/Phd degree holder Engineer. Germans have a strong sense of social solidarity so a BSc/MSc Mechanical Engineer doesn't mind that his Assistant Ausbildung/diploma holder is getting a salary that may be equal to 2/3 or sometimes even 3/4 of his own salary depending on the experience. The number of years for on job experience plays a big role in salaries.

yeah that's the issue, when compared to things in Pakistan, we are so behind. And I don't think even in a century things will change.

 

[Crusher]

yeah that's the issue, when compared to things in Pakistan, we are so behind. And I don't think even in a century things will change.

And in pakistan TV talk show anchors are earning 2,000,000 rupees per month whereas the producers of their programs are probably getting only 200, 000 rupees per month and technical staff probably earn even less than 50, 000 rupees per month. There is no concept of putting legal limits on the salary gaps for people working in various roles/tiers in the same industry in Pakistan. With this kind of ridiculous salary gaps everyone would aspire to become a marasi TV talk show anchor rather than a mechanical/electrical diploma holder.

 

[CrazyZ]

Human resource development is a key issue for us. If we want export oriented industry.....then we need better vocational training. There is alot of illiterate unskilled labor in Pakistan. Best way to improve their earning power is to develop their ability to operate machinery to make quality manufacturers. Germany is a world leader in this two tiered education system. Why they are a industrial leader.