DRDO' s AWACS programme may take a hit

[Cheetah786]

Air Force Claims DRDO Design Fails To Meet Requirements

By VIVEK RAGHUVANSHI, NEW DELHI

Yet another of India’s high-profile defense projects is facing delays due to criticism from the military service for which it was intended.
The Air Force has said the Defence Research and Development Organisation’s (DRDO’s) $500 million effort to design and develop an airborne early warning and control system (AWACS) fails to meet the military’s requirements.
A senior DRDO scientist said that the Air Force’s objections have halted work on the AWACS program at the Bangalore-based Centre for Air Borne Systems (CABS), a premier DRDO aeronautics laboratory.
A senior Defence Ministry official said the DRDO has been directed to re-evaluate the project. It also will be scrutinized by the ministry and defense forces, he said.
India will not be without an AWACS capability, however. In 2004, a $1.1 billion contract was signed with Israel for the Phalcon radar, which would be mounted on three Russian-built Il-76 aircraft. The delivery of the Phalcon-mounted AWACS planes will begin in mid-2007.
A senior Air Force official said the problems with the indigenous effort include the Embraer EMB-145 aircraft proposed as the AWACS platform, which cannot fly 10-plus hours or at an altitude above 40,000 feet, which are the minimum requirements of the defense forces.
In addition, the service official said, the surveillance radar has a range of only 300 kilometers and coverage area of 240 degrees, less than required.

Call for Closer Cooperation

The Air Force official said that the DRDO, awarded the work in September 2004, did not work closely with the end-users to set the technical parameters.
The DRDO must work hand-in-hand with the users, the Defence Ministry official said, and cannot ignore the objections raised by the Air Force.
The agency, in consultation with the Air Force, will set new technical parameters for the AWACS program, which is likely to be completed and cleared by the Air Force by mid-2007, the DRDO scientist said. The likely in-service date, therefore, will slip from 2012 to 2016.

The government approved a DRDO proposal in 2004 to develop an AWACS capability. The approval followed Pakistan’s deal with Sweden to mount Ericsson’s Erieye radar on Saab 2000 aircraft.
India’s program calls for three AWACS aircraft that can be deployed with all three military services as needed. The Air Force is the lead service on this project.
The primary systems and subsystems for the program include:
• A phased-array radar.
• Identification Friend or Foe system.
• Microwave data link.
• Electronic support measures.
• Operator display consoles with tactical software.
• Air-to-air voice and data links.
• Satellite communication links.
• Search-and-rescue capabilities.
An earlier effort by the DRDO to develop an indigenous AWACS capability was suspended in 1999 following the crash of the Airborne Surveillance Platform during trials. •

 

[Contrarian]

sad...good that we bought the Phalcons though.India will probably buy a lot more Phalcons then.

 

[Janbaz]

I have heard the Phalcons can own the Eriye Radars and jam them! Please have your says on this.

 

[Awesome]

Another R&D project of India's that'd probably not go anywhere.

Janbaz there are many counter measures out there, especially if you understand how hard it really is to jam.

Now it was easy to jam the Erieye if it was just transmitting at one frequency.

What the Phalcon would do is focus all of the interfering signals by sending them to that one frequency.

Pakistan can set the Erieye into agile radar mode. Agile Radar modes would keep the radar's frequency changing.

So you can bet Phalcon too would be set to transmit jamming signals on a range of frequencies. What happens then is that that it loses effectiveness. And with two Awacs at close proximity and different frequencies you can always set up a computer at the Control and Command center to figure out the right signal.

Jammers can also transmit simultaneously on a range of frequencies, but this would definitely weaken the jamming abilities of the Phalcon. And with a smartly programmed computer and having enough Awacs sending back information we don't really have to worry about the jamming at all.

Another thing that the Indians may try with the Phalcon would be to try to receive the incoming radar signals, delay, delay, delay and then send it back themselves. Effectively making the Erieye think the signals are coming from much farther away.

For this #1, they'd have to somehow jam our frequency and know what our frequency IS (if they are doing barrage jamming - the multiple frequency jam at once) to send a signal back to us. They can find out our frequency, since there'd be a trained operative on board to do so and would be scanning for it.

We counter that by adding layers to our signals as well. We throw in NOISE. Just garbled up signals, along with our useful signal. It'll take so long for the Indians to figure out our signal that the jamming efforts would be quite wasteful. We can also keep cloaking our signal in new sorts of ever changing noise and changing the signal too.

There's a reason why we've invested in many more Awacs than the Indians. We've got counter measures all prepped up. At any given time two Awacs would very rarely be in the skies (India is just getting two right?). One would have to go down for refueling time to time. Covering the entire border area with one Awac with a radius of 700km isn't going to be possible. Plus not to forget one might be busy with dealing with the two Pakistani Naval EriEyes.

 

[Janbaz]

Asim Brother! Now i know that jamming is not that easy. The person saying this made it sound like a peice of cake for the Phalcon as if it had supernatural powers.

 

[Awesome]

Also check out this Wikipedia link about Anti-Radiation missiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile

The jamming signals are radioactive. The AIM-120 AMRAAM missile's advanced electronic-counter-counter-measure (ECCM), would home into the Phalcon while it's transmitting the radiation and take it out easily. So the Phalcon cannot keep doing it forever.

I could be wrong, but aren't we getting the AIM-120 AMRAAMs along with our purchase of the F-16s? I know the MLU that our old F-16s are getting is specifically designed to give us the ECCM ability for the AIM 120-AMRAAM.

 

[Bull]

The project was awarded in 2004 and by 2006 they came out with something that was rejected.

So fast...!!! Wow atleast something is happening.

 

[Neo]

Also check out this Wikipedia link about Anti-Radiation missiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-radiation_missile

The jamming signals are radioactive. The AIM-120 AMRAAM missile's advanced electronic-counter-counter-measure (ECCM), would home into the Phalcon while it's transmitting the radiation and take it out easily. So the Phalcon cannot keep doing it forever.

I could be wrong, but aren't we getting the AIM-120 AMRAAMs along with our purchase of the F-16s? I know the MLU that our old F-16s are getting is specifically designed to give us the ECCM ability for the AIM 120-AMRAAM.

Yes we're getting the AMRAAM-120C for all F-16's including the MLU-3. Its not easy to jam an AWACS that easlily without coming into close range and giving away your position.
Air Defence will track the jammer and take it down.

 

[Awesome]

I wonder how are we ever going to get that missile onto the JF-17s and the J-10s.

I googled for JF-17s EW Suite but just got back to an article posted by Kaiser on PFF, that too without a link. Got some any details our bird's capabilities?

 

[Neo]

I wonder how are we ever going to get that missile onto the JF-17s and the J-10s.

AMRAAM-120C is basically for the F-16C/D, we've ordered 500 of these for 96 planes.
JF-17 and J-10 will come with the SD-10.

I googled for JF-17s EW Suite but just got back to an article posted by Kaiser on PFF, that too without a link. Got some any details our bird's capabilities?

Initial JF-17 batch is to have full chinese EW suite and armament as per Chinese export policy. PAC at Kamra will modify and integrate western avionics and weapons by herself!

 

[Keysersoze]

Hmmm

I would suggest to Indian planners that they find some alternative to the DRDo as they seem to be a money sink with very little results. Even with the growing economy etc. I find it incredible that an organisation that can waste billions and have nothing to show for it, can still be in operation.

 

[Bull]

Hmmm

I would suggest to Indian planners that they find some alternative to the DRDo as they seem to be a money sink with very little results. Even with the growing economy etc. I find it incredible that an organisation that can waste billions and have nothing to show for it, can still be in operation.

The only silver lining is the knowledge they get/gain by trying to build these toys.

 

[vnomad]

Hmmm

I would suggest to Indian planners that they find some alternative to the DRDo as they seem to be a money sink with very little results. Even with the growing economy etc. I find it incredible that an organisation that can waste billions and have nothing to show for it, can still be in operation.

The DRDOs successes are rarely publicised. Hardly anybody knows about the sonar suites developed by the DRDO. It replaced western sonars on IN ships. The LCA and Arjun are blindly accepted as duds. The funding that the DRDO recieves is a fraction of that recieved by corresponding western agencies.

 

[Awesome]

Hmmm

I would suggest to Indian planners that they find some alternative to the DRDo as they seem to be a money sink with very little results. Even with the growing economy etc. I find it incredible that an organisation that can waste billions and have nothing to show for it, can still be in operation.

Forget it man... That's a topic that'll never come up because saying anything against DRDO is swing at the Indian pride.

Of course DRDO shouldn't be scrapped out. It should be given more scientific freedom, remove all the bureaucracy. Quit the hype that often goes with DRDO projects and start making simplistic stuff first. Almost all DRDO projects are for competing against western products. Over ambition. They want to put everything into it, and everything never gets done. Small is big.

 

[Keysersoze]

The only silver lining is the knowledge they get/gain by trying to build these toys.

I take your point. However it seems an expensive way of learning. In the meantime the Indian armed forces have to spend more to cover any shortfalls that are created.

The DRDOs successes are rarely publicised. Hardly anybody knows about the sonar suites developed by the DRDO. It replaced western sonars on IN ships. The LCA and Arjun are blindly accepted as duds. The funding that the DRDO recieves is a fraction of that recieved by corresponding western agencies.

Sorry mate. But I believe you have your patriotism goggles on. When smaller nations create a new device indigenously it is usually trumpeted in the media as a source of success. (And rightly so) The western agencies do have larger budgets but then, so do their Countries overall. If they have a fraction of the budget maybe they should rein in their enthusiasm until they have more experience?
As for the Arjun and LCA I would ask simply, where are they then? 30 and 21 years respectively I believe?