What's new

Dragon's Teeth

.
India is funding, arming, training and even participating with the TTP.

Pakistan has made arrests of Indians in relation to all four accusations.

the video that you posted is not precisely the way issues like breaching of a country's sovereignty by waging a covert war against the state are handled/addressed.
Had you possessed sufficient evidence regarding our involvement you would have presented it to the Americans and the coalition against terrorism of which you are part of to get Indian operations to cease in Afghanistan something which Pakistan has always wanted.
There was a reason we prepared lengthy dossiers after 26/11 was investigated.
Till date your view is what they call a "conspiracy theory"...and is not universally endorsed.
 
.
"India is funding, arming, training and even participating with the TTP."

No it isn't.

You've provided nothing to the U.S. government that has swayed their thoughts on this matter. Nor have you done so for any of the other forty nations assembled in Afghanistan.
Please quantify what sort of evidence you're looking for?

Arrested Indians... Check
Seized weapons cargo... Check
Confessions from TTP Operatives... Check
Uncircumcised dead bodies in Swat... Check
Indian small arms, explosives seized from Swat... Check
Indian Rupees seized from dead bodies in Swat... Check

Manmohan Singh Shouting I totally did it... Pending.

Were you correct that India is conducting terror operations against Pakistan from AFGHAN soil, India would be putting at risk all other nations in Afghanistan as well as all Afghan citizens.

Not really, if they are only attacking Pakistani targets, where's the risk to the US? Let's be honest, the rest of the 40 don't matter.

Some guest of the afghan people. There are forty nations with their soldiers, NGOs, supra-national organizations, war correspondents, trade representatives, and many others in Afghanistan. Many do not like nor endorse America. Yet where are the articles and sightings of training camps and weapons depots?

They are in the Indian consulates?

There's an article here to begin this thread about TTP funding. Yet where in the article is India mentioned? Nonetheless, immediately this thread is twisted away from the author's contentions without even discussion of the merits surrounding KSA sourcing.

KSA has its ties with anti-Shia forces, but never has there been any evidence against TTP. KSA has no interest to make an enemy of Pakistan, the relations between the two countries are pretty good.

India gains nothing by fomenting rebellion and terror in Pakistan. It de-stabilizes your institutions and that's a decided Indian disadvantage.

How do you figure? Pakistan stuck in battle with the militants is less of a threat to India. India has everything to gain. Remember these militants are not enough to topple the Pakistani government in a million years but they are enough to keep her busy. You weren't born yesterday...

Further, India, even were it to seek such, can add little to what already is rampaging within your tribal lands. What might be added would come at great cost were India to be found complicit.
The economics don't add up. One roti costs 20 rps in Pakistan. One bullet costs 100 rupees. Multiply that with a billion and you'd figure out the amount of funding needed to keep this war going on. India can definitely help out. Heck give me the billions and I'll show you how its done.

They would likely be ejected from Afghanistan and would lose all that they've heretofore attained by goodwill and diplomacy.
And what is it that India really gets? No money, the good will of tribal folks who are little ahead of the caveman ages. There is no economical advantage that India gets from Afghanistan, why would they invest in goodwill? There IS a military advantage.

Of course, making such claims allows Pakistanis to justify the maintenence of sanctuary and the proxy support to the afghan taliban. Doing so, of course, ignores the stark correlation between the entry of these afghan taliban to your tribal areas in late 2001 and the beginnings of your own radicalized tribal populace.
Let us into Afghanistan and let us monitor the Indian consulates. Your Afghan government is nothing but a bunch of drug lords and warlords playing God with the Afghanis. We would do ALL that we can to keep India out of Afghanistan.

"Good" taliban. "Bad" taliban. Pakistanis wish for the afghan people that which they can't bear themselves. There's no difference to the rest of mankind but when strategic depth is at stake Pakistanis can see all the difference in the world and find all the rationalizations necessary.

Just like you guys allowed Russia to build missile sites in Cuba? Monroe Doctrine n all that. Americans wish upon the Pakistanis that they themselves can't bear! You can't plead your way into asking us to allow India to bomb us :).
 
.
the video that you posted is not precisely the way issues like breaching of a country's sovereignty by waging a covert war against the state are handled/addressed.
Had you possessed sufficient evidence regarding our involvement you would have presented it to the Americans and the coalition against terrorism of which you are part of to get Indian operations to cease in Afghanistan something which Pakistan has always wanted.
There was a reason we prepared lengthy dossiers after 26/11 was investigated.
Till date your view is what they call a "conspiracy theory"...and is not universally endorsed.
Well we've got the evidence. Anyone who wants to take the Indians to court on it is welcome to do so. Meanwhile we play differently, we will bomb out all threats against Pakistan at OUR will. We don't need India's or the universe's permission to defend ourselves.
 
.
India is funding, arming, training and even participating with the TTP.

Pakistan has made arrests of Indians in relation to all four accusations.

well.....if it did ..why were the arrested men exposed to the world like kasab?.....i would also like to know
1)why is the fate of the arrested men not followed upon the media?...i mean only arrests are reported then what happens to them afterward?

and 2)why does your foreign minster say this(see below) when you(literally) yourself have so much evidence? are you saying that you have more proof that your foreign minister ????...if so you are just posting for the heck of your perceptions/nightmares:P

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | More evidence needed to prove Indian hand: Qureshi

More evidence needed to prove Indian hand: Qureshi


MULTAN: Foreign Minister Makhdoom Shah Mehmood Qureshi has said that foreign involvement in creating trouble in Pakistan cannot be ruled out but more information is needed to plausibly argue Pakistan’s point of view on the issue of Indian involvement.

‘The possibility that there are elements who want to destabilise the country cannot be ruled out. But information received by us in this regard is insufficient. We need more information and material to plausibly argue our case,’ said Qureshi while talking to the media at Multan airport.

‘We will have to be cautious and careful. If it is challenged in a court of law then we will have to ensure that it meets its logical end,’ he added.

The foreign minister welcomed a statement by Indian state minister for external affairs regarding safety of nuclear assets in Pakistan. ‘Pakistan does not need any certification from others on the issue as it is a responsible country which has implemented internationally recognized standards for safety of its nuclear asset. The statement from an Indian minister endorses Pakistan’s point of view on the matter,’ he added.

Qureshi said that the whole world was suggesting dialogue between the two Asian countries as the most sensible way forward to resolve all issues including Kashmir. The United States, Britain, France, Germany and others believe there is no other way except dialogue to resolve issues for regional peace, he added.

Pakistan also wants resumption of dialogue but it should be meaningful and result-oriented. It should not be confined merely to one point, rather it should be composite, he added.

He said that Admiral Mike Mullen had also spoken about the importance of resolving the Kashmir issue to ease tensions between the two countries.

The FM said that the prime ministers of Pakistan and India had also agreed at Sharm Al-Sheikh that dialogue was the only way forward.—APP
 
.
well.....if it did ..why were the arrested men exposed to the world like kasab?.....i would also like to know
1)why is the fate of the arrested men not followed upon the media?...i mean only arrests are reported then what happens to them afterward?

and 2)why does your foreign minster say this(see below) when you(literally) yourself have so much evidence? are you saying that you have more proof that your foreign minister ????...if so you are just posting for the heck of your perceptions/nightmares:P

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | More evidence needed to prove Indian hand: Qureshi

More evidence needed to prove Indian hand: Qureshi


MULTAN: Foreign Minister Makhdoom Shah Mehmood Qureshi has said that foreign involvement in creating trouble in Pakistan cannot be ruled out but more information is needed to plausibly argue Pakistan’s point of view on the issue of Indian involvement.

‘The possibility that there are elements who want to destabilise the country cannot be ruled out. But information received by us in this regard is insufficient. We need more information and material to plausibly argue our case,’ said Qureshi while talking to the media at Multan airport.

‘We will have to be cautious and careful. If it is challenged in a court of law then we will have to ensure that it meets its logical end,’ he added.

The foreign minister welcomed a statement by Indian state minister for external affairs regarding safety of nuclear assets in Pakistan. ‘Pakistan does not need any certification from others on the issue as it is a responsible country which has implemented internationally recognized standards for safety of its nuclear asset. The statement from an Indian minister endorses Pakistan’s point of view on the matter,’ he added.

Qureshi said that the whole world was suggesting dialogue between the two Asian countries as the most sensible way forward to resolve all issues including Kashmir. The United States, Britain, France, Germany and others believe there is no other way except dialogue to resolve issues for regional peace, he added.

Pakistan also wants resumption of dialogue but it should be meaningful and result-oriented. It should not be confined merely to one point, rather it should be composite, he added.

He said that Admiral Mike Mullen had also spoken about the importance of resolving the Kashmir issue to ease tensions between the two countries.

The FM said that the prime ministers of Pakistan and India had also agreed at Sharm Al-Sheikh that dialogue was the only way forward.—APP
The only people fessing up to Kasab and the people going easy on Indian involvement in Pakistan has been the current Zardari government.

Non-representative of Pakistanis. However we've done it on quite high levels, only thing is if you're willing to listen or not. We've caught Indians, tried them and sentenced them. Sarabjit Singh's case is the perfect example how in Pakistan terrorists are dealt with due process.

I've already SHOWN you an arrested Indian. Weapons cargo has been seized.
 
.
Well we've got the evidence. Anyone who wants to take the Indians to court on it is welcome to do so. Meanwhile we play differently, we will bomb out all threats against Pakistan at OUR will. We don't need India's or the universe's permission to defend ourselves.

who do you reckon should be suing India over your hypothesis?
and I am pretty sure a preemptive strike on any Indian asset east or west would be the least beneficial option in front of Pakistan.

We don't need India's or the universe's permission to defend ourselves.
unless you don't prove that there is an external attack...it's just your internal problem.
And if you think that you can go to war based on your assumptions and with the popular opinion going against you...you'd be in for a rude shock...the assertion of righteousness is all that matters or atleast the illusion in that regard.
 
.
who do you reckon should be suing India over your hypothesis?
and I am pretty sure a preemptive strike on any Indian asset east or west would be the least beneficial option in front of Pakistan.


unless you don't prove that there is an external attack...it's just your internal problem.
And if you think that you can go to war based on your assumptions and with the popular opinion going against you...you'd be in for a rude shock...the assertion of righteousness is all that matters or atleast the illusion in that regard.

Then here's to the day that we can bomb out all terrorist camps working against Pakistan! :cheers:

Saying that we can't do so right now does not mean that we would stop trying to beat off all Indian influences working against us. People said we can't take out the TTP, but we've driven them out of their key areas.
 
.
The only people fessing up to Kasab and the people going easy on Indian involvement in Pakistan has been the current Zardari government.
The Yanks believe our case and so do the Brits...the other two countries which had their citizens being slaughtered and conducted investigations into all that transpired on that cursed day...your govt. did a lousy job trying to live in denial...international pressure got the better of Zardari/gilani...which authority would you trust?
Non-representative of Pakistanis.
makes up for an interesting coffee-house talk...but it's a democratic system you have now...so you can only blame yourselves for the inept manner in which the guys are running the show.
However we've done it on quite high levels, only thing is if you're willing to listen or not. We've caught Indians, tried them and sentenced them. Sarabjit Singh's case is the perfect example how in Pakistan terrorists are dealt with due process.
don't mix sarabjit with TTP....we do have a functional intelligence agency...doesnt mean we'd plan and execute every suicide attack that happens in Pakistan...yu make things sound as if...your "wild west" is more under Indian occupation than it is "federally administered"
 
.
The Yanks believe our case and so do the Brits...the other two countries which had their citizens being slaughtered and conducted investigations into all that transpired on that cursed day...your govt. did a lousy job trying to live in denial...international pressure got the better of Zardari/gilani...which authority would you trust?
I would abide by what Zardari says, as he is President, but I don't trust him. There is a belief that he wanted to weaken ISI's position and thus sang like a canary.

The Americans and the British left it up to India and Pakistan till the Zardari government itself came up in acceptance of it all.

makes up for an interesting coffee-house talk...but it's a democratic system you have now...so you can only blame yourselves for the inept manner in which the guys are running the show.
Not so much, democracy in Pakistan is For the Americans, by the Americans and of the Americans :).

don't mix sarabjit with TTP....we do have a functional intelligence agency...doesnt mean we'd plan and execute every suicide attack that happens in Pakistan...yu make things sound as if...your "wild west" is more under Indian occupation than it is "federally administered"

Then how many suicide attacks are you complicit in?
 
.
Then here's to the day that we can bomb out all terrorist camps working against Pakistan! :cheers:

Saying that we can't do so right now does not mean that we would stop trying to beat off all Indian influences working against us. People said we can't take out the TTP, but we've driven them out of their key areas.

Asim...I hope that you realize someday that most Indians who can read newspapers and are generally educated would want Pakistan to bomb all the terrorist camps without bias in doing so.There are no good terror camps...and there is no room for a militia in a country where uniforms are stitched in plenty and are respected and admired.

if ever we fight you...we'd want to face a country with a standing army that it can field and not have the talibs for it's defense who run and hide in the caves only to come out in the night to pillage with no regards to the rules of engagement.
Our deepest darkest fear would be to find that the man behind your nuclear button is a worshiper of BM...and sees it his duty to cleanse his hindu enemy.
 
.
Then how many suicide attacks are you complicit in?

you make it sound as if I am deliberately hiding some statistic from you...I'd never know how many attacks had an Indian hand...there are loop-holes in every theory...even the right one....but the shortest path between two points should be the line you should traverse when arriving to inferences which would have a billion theories behind them.

60+ years of chugging around has made the democratic system of my country robust enough to have an ok actual representation of the opinions of the people...and believe me none would want innocents dying anywhere in the world...your findings of the Indian hand if any would be well received here as well...col. Purohit according to your theories should have been made a national hero...his case testifies our resolve to be a responsible nation.
 
.
Interestingly even a Dawn Editorial do not suggest that TTP is funded by India.:lazy:

The TTP’s funding
Dawn Editorial
Sunday, 07 Jun, 2009

Perhaps one of the least understood aspects of the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan is how it finances its activities. An insurgency is an expensive business to carry on: arms and ammunition have to be purchased, communication systems set up, salaries have to be paid to the rank and file and commanders, compensation has to be given to the families of suicide bombers — hundreds of millions of rupees, more likely billions, are needed.

Where does the money come from? Initially, private donations from Karachi, Lahore, the Gulf states, Saudi Arabia, etc were funneled to the Taliban’s coffers through informal banking channels. In the years since 9/11 some of those routes were shut down, but there is little doubt that a sizeable amount still goes through such channels into the Taliban’s baitul maal. Then there is the Afghan Taliban and their earnings from the drug trade in Afghanistan and their more sophisticated front companies that make investments regionally and internationally and plough some of the money back into insurgency-related activities in Fata.

Clearly, Pakistan and the international community need to do more to follow these trails of money and devise new ways to reduce the flow as much as possible.

There is also the control that the TTP has over economic activities in Fata and, until recently, the northwest. With large swathes of territory under the de facto control of the TTP, the militants have been able to set up check posts and charge ‘customs duties’ on goods moving through those territories. And in Swat, the TTP took a slice of the earnings of the timber mafias operating there and also briefly controlled the lucrative emerald mines. All of this was possible because the TTP physically controlled these areas — wherever they continue to be in control, they will be able to raise funds for their activities.

Perhaps the simplest way for the TTP to generate cash is by robbing banks. The quickest infusion of cash of course comes from walking into a bank and emptying its vault and looting its customers. From Karachi to the Malakand division, across the length and breadth of the country, many bank robberies in recent times have been linked to the TTP. It is difficult to put a figure on the amounts involved given that national data on such crimes is not readily available, but it is easily in the range of tens of millions of rupees. Finally, there is the kidnapping route.

In Islamabad, Peshawar, Karachi, even in smaller cities and the tribal areas, rings of kidnappers pick and choose who they will target next from among the rich. The state must work harder to clamp down on these networks which generate easy cash for the militants — every extra rupee raised by them is another rupee available to help the militants fight the state.
 
.
"Not really, if they are only attacking Pakistani targets, where's the risk to the US? Let's be honest, the rest of the 40 don't matter."

Don't joke around. Indian subterfuge aimed at Pakistan from Afghanistan invites retaliation which endangers afghans, aid workers, ISAF, and others. Neither the afghans nor the rest of ISAF and the world community would tolerate such from India.

Most of the world community can see Pakistan's desperate attempts to equivocate such to rationalize your own proxies. Nobody misses that such claims about the TTP only come LONG after sanctuary was an established issue to this insurgency. After all, the TTP were only formed in December 2007. Sanctuary has been available to Haqqani, Omar, OBL, and Hekmatyar since December 2001.

Pakistan fully understands that any argument against PREDATOR, for instance is null as it either asserts no functional control over FATAville or is fully complicit in the activities of these men in sanctuary.

WHAT MAKES MATTERS WORSE, though, is that proxy armies go BEYOND sanctuary. Pakistan's own citizen militias such as Maulvi Nazir's men or Hafez Gul Bahadur also make war on Afghanistan. What rationalizes this travesty?

"They are in the Indian consulates?"

Well then, if so, they aren't very big and there are only four of them as there are only four consulates-Herat, Mazur-I-Sharif, Jalalabad, and Kandahar. Two of those consulates are about as far away from Pakistan as one can be while in Afghanistan. All of them are in the exact same cities as the Pakistani consulates. No more. No less.

Should those Pakistani consulates receive the same scrutiny or are their activities on behalf of Pakistan's desired goal of strategic depth above closer inspection?

Silly.

OTOH, there's a vast network of camps and training facilities being confirmed daily by your own army that stretches from Bajaur south to Balochistan. Nearly institutional in its permanence and supplemented by a ready supply of soldiers from the nearly 20,000 madrassahs and vast afghan refugee camps on your lands.

The engine of proxy war roars a bit louder in FATA than in the four afghan consulates of the Indian government.

"KSA has its ties with anti-Shia forces, but never has there been any evidence against TTP. KSA has no interest to make an enemy of Pakistan, the relations between the two countries are pretty good."

You are in Dubai. You should know better than to suggest such. The KSA won't EVER be found funding the taliban. OTOH, they've no need with an extensive and sophisticated network of wealthy, private, wahabbist donors throughout the KSA and the emirates-many with close connections to the leadership of those states. They've every interest in either promoting salafism into Pakistan and Afghanistan or in deflecting the same away from the emirates and the KSA.

"How do you figure? Pakistan stuck in battle with the militants is less of a threat to India. India has everything to gain."

No. India can make only an incremental contribution over and beyond the already considerable home-grown mayhem you experience. The TTP have ready access to multiple sources of money and weapons. They have no need to trade their allegiances away so cheaply and don't endorse any of India's ambitions. India risks too much with it's relationship with Afghanistan and others chancing being caught and ejected from Afghanistan for very little tangible mayhem.

Cost great. Gain small. Risk high. No brainer to stay away. India is playing to its strengths in Afghanistan- solid rapport with the N.A. and a decisive foreign aid disparity over Pakistan.

India realizes this is no game. De-stabilizing a nuclear-armed neighbor whose hatred of India is known far and wide risks self-immolation. Doing so from the lands of another risks them as well.

Finally, at this point India is firmly aware that Pakistan is screaming loud and wide. If there was any truth to the matter, you've driven it deep underground before uncovering it adequately.

Not smart as Pakistan's accumulated arguments have led nowhere with anybody at this point. No evidence. Not sure Pakistan cares though so long as your own population believes sufficient to justify the myths behind strategic depth and imminent threat.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
.
Iraq wmd>No where
AQ eliminated>Non
Taliban eliminated>Non
Progress in Afghanistan>Worsen situation
8 years progress>0 ZERO%
Status: coalition-us Lost War-Defeated
Reason-Myth: Pakistan

More to add on demand..
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom