Don’t Blame the Pakistan Army for the Country’s Poverty

[nahtanbob]

I agree there is a correlation in time frame, but what I'm saying is that if you dig deeper you find that US aid to Pakistan and military rule in Pakistan do not have a cause and effect relationship. US support came about because of US strategic interests (the Cold War, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, 9/11 etc). The US did not choose to provide aid because there was a military government in power, nor did the military take power because US aid was available.

Correlation does not imply causation.

I agree with you. I would assume it is not like general is taking power and hoping America bails him out
But US aid does skew the performance & economic record of military generals for the better.

 

[shahbaz baig]

the people are backbone of any society

I don't think I should explain to you.

 

[jupiter2007]

There are many reasons and establishment is 50% responsible for this mess.
Why army and agencies were involved in political engineering?
Creating political parties like PMLN, PMLQ, MQM, MQM-H, PSP.
Should we not hold Establishment responsible because they allowed political parties to do mismanagement, corruption, money laundering, buying judges, paying lifafa journalists, riggings elections, destroying government Institutions, violence, extortion, killing innocent people and giving NRO to corrupt mafia.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

But US aid does skew the performance & economic record of military generals for the better.

That, I agree with.

Why army and agencies were involved in political engineering?
Creating political parties like PMLN, PMLQ, MQM, MQM-H, PSP.

Absolutely valid criticism.

Should we not hold Establishment responsible because they allowed political parties to do mismanagement, corruption, money laundering, buying judges, paying lifafa journalists, riggings elections, destroying government Institutions, violence, extortion, killing innocent people and giving NRO to corrupt mafia.

Now you're contradicting the first part of your post. We agree that the Army should not be involved in affairs outside of defence, security, intelligence. However, when you criticize the Army for 'allowing political parties to engage in corruption, money laundering etc, you're asking for them to interfere in the political process - it is that kind of interference (however well intentioned) that then results in the problems you mentioned in your first post.

If we truly, sincerely want the Army to stop meddling in politics, then we need to stop demanding that they 'fix' the corruption, mismanagement etc that the elected politicians engage in. The way to fix corrupt and inept politicians is to vote them out.

 

[Baghial]

Don’t Blame the Pakistan Army for the Country’s Poverty

BRIAN CLOUGHLEY

FEBRUARY 8, 2019

No matter what happens in Afghanistan, a most important factor in the region will continue to be the army of Pakistan which has had to move large numbers of troops to the border to counter revolutionary militants. In the event of civil war in Afghanistan, Pakistan will be subject to even more threat from over its western frontier and it is therefore relevant to examine the Pakistan army, which, under the Constitution, along with the other armed services “shall, under the directions of the Federal Government, defend Pakistan against external aggression or threat of war, and, subject to law, act in aid of civil power when called upon to do so.”

On February 1 Russia announced that Moscow is “closely cooperating” with Islamabad in the fight against terrorism and that “great contribution is being made by all the countries bordering Afghanistan, and Russia is a reliable partner of those countries in every effort to ensure the security of the borders.” But although Russia acknowledges Pakistan’s vital role in the region, most western governments and media outlets allege that much of the shambles in war-torn Afghanistan is the fault of Pakistan. Not only that, but the UK’s Economist claimed in January that “Pakistan’s army is to blame for the poverty of the country’s 208m citizens — it has fostered the paranoia and extremism that hold the country back.”

This is the army which, along with para-military forces, has had 7,057 soldiers killed in operations against barbaric extremists from January 2002 to January 27, 2019. Following the US invasion of Afghanistan and subsequent expansion of Islamic terrorist groups in the region (and well beyond), Pakistan has suffered 468 suicide bombing attacks, in which 7,230 people were killed. Before the US offensive in 2001 there was one such attack, in 1995 by a crazy Egyptian who drove a bomb-laden lorry into the Egyptian Embassy’s gates. Last year 369 Pakistani civilians died in terrorist attacks and 165 soldiers were killed in fighting against terrorists, killing 157 of them.

Pakistan’s army has mounted countless operations against terrorists, and has been able to restore peace. As the BBC reported, “For over a decade the inaccessible and mountainous tribal area of North Waziristan [on the Afghan border] was home to a swirling array of violent jihadists. The Pakistan and Afghan Taliban movements, al-Qaeda and less well-known militant outfits such as the Haqqani Network used the area to hold hostages, train militants, store weapons and deploy suicide bombers to attack targets in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Today the militants have gone. Virtually the whole of North Waziristan is in Pakistani army hands.” At the cost of hundreds of dead and wounded Pakistan army soldiers.

This is the army that The Economist alleges “promotes a doctrine of persecution and paranoia”. The journal states, without any evidence, that “it helped cast out the previous prime minister, Nawaz Sharif” but doesn’t mention that Sharif was totally corrupt. It is not surprising that Sharif resigned in 2017 after the Supreme Court disqualified him from office following revelations of his family’s financial fandangos. As reported by Al Jazeera, “In 2016, the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists leaked 11.5 million documents from Panama-based law firm Mossack Fonseca, dubbed the Panama Papers. Several documents included in the leak showed three of Sharif’s children — Hussain, Hasan and Maryam — owned at least three off-shore companies registered in the British Virgin Islands. The documents showed that these companies had engaged in deals worth $25m. Crucially, one of the documents also revealed that the companies had been involved in a $13.2m mortgage involving the London properties as collateral, the first time the Sharif family’s ownership of the apartments was proven on paper.” Further, as CNN records, in 2018 “Sharif was found guilty of corruption charges relating to the purchase of Al-Azizia Steel Mills where prosecutors alleged that the Sharif family misappropriated government funds to buy the mills. The company was used by the Sharif’s family to launder money, evade tax and hide offshore assets.”

The whole thing stank, and it was eventually made public that Nawaz Sharif was corrupt to the eyeballs — as everyone in Pakistan had known for decades.

The Pakistan Army cannot not be held to blame for that, any more than it can be for the majestic corruption of former President Asif Zardari (Mr Ten Percent), the husband of former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. In 1998 the Pulitzer Prize winner John Burns wrote an eight page exposé in the New York Times noting, among many other revelations of sleaze, that “In 1995, a leading French military contractor, Dassault Aviation, agreed to pay Mr. Zardari and a Pakistani partner $200 million for a $4 billion jet fighter deal that fell apart only when Ms. Bhutto’s Government was dismissed. In another deal, a leading Swiss company hired to curb customs fraud in Pakistan paid millions of dollars between 1994 and 1996 to offshore companies controlled by Mr. Zardari and Ms. Bhutto’s widowed mother, Nusrat.”

The Bhutto government was staggeringly corrupt. As Burns recounted, “In the largest single payment investigators have discovered, a gold bullion dealer in the Middle East was shown to have deposited at least $10 million into an account controlled by Mr. Zardari after the Bhutto Government gave him a monopoly on gold imports that sustained Pakistan’s jewellery industry. The money was deposited into a Citibank account in the United Arab Emirate of Dubai, one of several Citibank accounts for companies owned by Mr. Zardari. Together, the documents provided an extraordinarily detailed look at high-level corruption in Pakistan, a nation so poor that perhaps 70 percent of its 130 million people are illiterate, and millions have no proper shelter, no schools, no hospitals, not even safe drinking water. During Ms. Bhutto’s five years in power, the economy became so enfeebled that she spent much of her time negotiating new foreign loans to stave off default on $62 billion in public debt.”

So it might be asked of The Economist exactly what the Pakistan army had to do with impoverishment of citizens during the regimes of Benazir Bhutto, then her husband, the crooked Asif Zardari, then the almost equally corrupt Nawaz Sharif. The country has had civilian government since 2008, and might reasonably be expected to have improved its economic situation, but in some weird way, according to The Economist, the fact that this has not come about must be the fault of the army, which has been trying to protect the country against the massive terrorist drive to destroy democracy and establish Islamic rule.

The Economist states that the army “at last” moved against the terrorists in 2014 “following an appalling school massacre.” As described above, it did indeed mount a massive operation in Waziristan in 2014, but to assert that this was belated action is totally misleading. The Economist ignores the fact that in May 2009, for example, “Pakistan’s army declared a ‘full-scale’ offensive against Taliban insurgents holed up in the Swat valley . . . The fighting was concentrated in the main town, Mingora, where the bulk of an estimated 4,000 Taliban fighters across Swat are heavily dug in. Artillery and helicopter gunships battered militant-held buildings, while the Taliban planted mines across the city in expectation of a major ground offensive.” In this army operation 228 officers and men were killed and 757 wounded. Fazlullah, the leader of the insurgent group known as the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) escaped to Afghanistan, from where he continued to direct attacks within Pakistan “including the 2014 school massacre that killed 132 children and the 2012 shooting of schoolgirl Malala Yousafzai.” He was killed by a US drone strike in 2018.

It is all very well for clever commentators who have never experienced a military operation or heard a shot fired in anger to declare that Pakistan’s armed forces “commandeer resources” as if this were a crime. They have no idea of the enormous cost of logistics in anti-terrorist operations in “the inaccessible and mountainous tribal area of North Waziristan.” They have no idea of the human and financial implications of casualty evacuation in such awful terrain, or of the enormous cost of establishing forward bases and transporting ammunition and rations over hundreds of miles of rugged tracks. Yet they say they believe that “the army’s pre-eminence is precisely what lies at the heart of Pakistan’s troubles.”

Tell that to the people of Swat and North Waziristan who suffered from the atrocities of the Taliban who have now been ejected — by the army — from the regions where, for example, “decapitated bodies were found on the roadside, hung from electric poles and trees.” Now, as the BBC notes, “The army is building infrastructure to tempt people to return. As well as new roads, there are brand new schools with facilities that rival anything on offer elsewhere in Pakistan.” That might seem to most people, if not The Economist, a reasonable use of “resources”.

In preparing for even greater instability in Afghanistan and its likely spill-over to Pakistan, the army will require more resources, and it is likely these will be forthcoming, as will cooperation by at least some other nations, notably Russia whose special envoy for Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov, said in Islamabad on January 29 that Moscow “greatly appreciated Pakistan’s role as a facilitator in the Afghan peace process.” Nobody knows how that process will pan out, but it is certain there will continue to be regional instability, and that in Pakistan it will be essential that the army continues in its role as protector of democracy.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/02/08/dont-blame-the-pakistan-army-for-the-countrys-poverty/

Dont blame the elephant for being too fat!

 

[nahtanbob]

I don't think I should explain to you.

i did not ask for an explanation

 

[shahbaz baig]

i did not ask for an explanation

OK fine. Now go & get some life and don't tell me anything regarding the Pak Army because you know nothing.

 

[VCheng]

There are many reasons and establishment is 50% responsible for this mess.
Why army and agencies were involved in political engineering?
Creating political parties like PMLN, PMLQ, MQM, MQM-H, PSP.
Should we not hold Establishment responsible because they allowed political parties to do mismanagement, corruption, money laundering, buying judges, paying lifafa journalists, riggings elections, destroying government Institutions, violence, extortion, killing innocent people and giving NRO to corrupt mafia.

It is very simple: The Army engages in illegal political activities to ensure that no rightful challenger to its supra-Constitutional position of authority and dominance arises from the civilian sector that would make it subservient to the civilians as the Constitution mandates.

 

[jupiter2007]

It is very simple: The Army engages in illegal political activities to ensure that no rightful challenger to its supra-Constitutional position of authority and dominance arises from the civilian sector that would make it subservient to the civilians as the Constitution mandates.

Not only that they want to expand and take more money from government, illegally occupying more government own land or buying for pennies and give free land to retire soldiers, officers and generals.
second tier paramilitary force, coast guard, border security agency and police including elite force should be under the control of government.

 

[VCheng]

Not only that they want to expand and take more money from government, illegally occupying more government own land or buying for pennies and give free land to retire soldiers, officers and generals.
second tier paramilitary force, coast guard, border security agency and police including elite force should be under the control of government.

Well, it is the only institution that works. That is good.

And it actively destroys other institutions. That is bad.

The tragedy of Pakistan in a nutshell.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

During most of the years Pakistani army ruled there was a huge gravy train from Washington.
Whenever the gravy train from Washington ends or about to end the power is transferred to civilians. this may be by accident.

Plot the graph between aid or debt rescheduled or CSF payments on the y-axis and years on the x-axis. See for yourself.

I am sure moderators like to give a negative rating on this post. The data does not lie.

During those times we also faced harsh sanctions but that did not deter our growth rate. So please, this narrative of associating US aid to Pakistan's prosperity under military rule is a blatant lie.

Democratic rule reversed many of these achievements, a prime example being PPP's nationalization policy in which private investment went from 90% under Ayub Khan to 36% under Benazir Bhutto.

 

[nahtanbob]

During those times we also faced harsh sanctions but that did not deter our growth rate. So please, this narrative of associating US aid to Pakistan's prosperity under military rule is a blatant lie.

Democratic rule reversed many of these achievements, a prime example being PPP's nationalization policy in which private investment went from 90% under Ayub Khan to 36% under Benazir Bhutto.

we went over the time frames of major American aid packages and Pakistani military dictatorships
US aid 1954-1965 . Pakistani military 1958-71
US aid 1980-1990 . Pakistani military 1979-1988
US aid 2001-2012 . Pakistani military 1998-2007

the competence of civilian leaders is matter for another thread

 

[War Thunder]

When Pakistan Army ruled the country; we faced astonishing economic growth. Massive projects were initiated and completed with utmost efficiency, they didn't have to go through years of bureaucratic sluggishness; in which millions of dollars are lost before we even complete anything.

Who do you think built Islamabad, the world's largest dams, Gwadar, etc...


No one pays income taxes.

Yes, good job at using a tunnel vision logic here.

==>When Pakistan Army ruled the country, it introduced extremism to the country to facilitate Americans in Afghanistan. Which is directly responsible for all the mess and deaths the common citizens had to suffer through for the last decade.
==>When Pakistan Army ruled the country, corrupt thugs were introduced to the political system and true politicians were hung or thrown out.
==>When Pakistan army ruled the country, NRO was introduced and not only all the looting which had previously been facilitated by the army itself was legalized, but the country was left at the mercy of thugs.
==>When Pakistan army ruled the country, the country bent over backwards to allow US to invade Afghanistan with hidden motives of destabilizing Pakistan, and then bearing the daily shame of drone attacks and innocent civilians dieing in the process.


So let me ask again.
Who else is there to blame?

One has to take responsibility and accountability of ones mess ups and failures and absolute poor decision making and lack of long term vision and planning.

The generals who were making those decisions, or either choosing to be silent when those decisions were being forced on them, or not standing up for the nation's interest where they could and should have.

They need to man up and accept responsibility.

 

[Super Falcon]

There are few fact blunders they have made

 

[mingle]

Pak has lowest budget in the region regarding its size of armed forces we need to double it up Atleast.