Does the Establishment realize that Pakistan's future is with China?

[Azadkashmir]

When the WOT started back in October 2001, vladimir putin stated that the west, europe and russia should join forces to fight the common threat of "dark skinned Muslim terrorists" who are a threat to white european christian civilisation. This is why I am loving the russia ukraine conflict....... .

yh true but west spat in their face, plus theirs rumours that this putin has been replaced with another search dr beter peter about clones.

the chechian terrorist thing as well, it is said the kgb got caught planting bombs, the couple who reported the bomb, got a tv as a gift. this is how putin rose to power.

These leaders start out as puppets then feel betrayed and go out of control against nwo.

just like hitler and stalin.

 

[nangyale]

Unless China start offering retirement homes plus permanent visas to Pakistani Generals, there won't be any changes.

Bajwa and his ilk completely understand but actually don't care about the fate of Pakistan.

They care about their retirement homes and children's careers in Western multinationals.

So no matter how good China is for the future and development of Pakistan. Its offers will always be found in CoASs dustbin.

 

[Corruptistan]

Their allegiance is to those that will pay them the most under the table.

Other very important points, maybe even the most important points, where do you think all their wealth is stored? In China or the West?

Where are their family members based (if living abroad? The West or China?

Where do their children study and live when not living in Pakistan? The West or China?

Where do they retire if leaving Pakistan? West or China?

Simple really.

 

[N.Siddiqui]

If the premise is to be believed that Fauj/Estab. is a state within a state, the holier than thou make-believe rhetoric.

The civilian political system, the government can make it a point to keep a warm, extra friendly relations with China and to quite an extent with Russia, don't have to be in any bloc.


The Establishment, the military/Army honchos can keep an extra ordinarily good relations with US of A.

Not that simple, but some conniving, shrewd diplomacy can do it, double cross, double talk do whatever which is possible.

And Estab. should let all their conniving, duplicitous power not to manipulate and manage the local political aspirations and let the govt. function for full term and use all their energy on manipulating and managing the US, EU and the other big powers China, Russia Et al.

 

[RoadRunner401]

I love it when serious conversations go on about Problems with Pakistan and the more important factor is completely ignored or simply not mentioned and that's "the GHQ Factor". Spin it a million miles and blame it on "this and that" will not change the reality, the problem is, was and will remain GHQ...

 

[nangyale]

If the premise is to be believed that Fauj/Estab. is a state within a state, the holier than thou make-believe rhetoric.

The civilian political system, the government can make a point to keep a warm, extra friendly relations with China and to quite an extent with Russia, don't have to be in any bloc.


The Establishment, the military/Army honchos can keep an extra ordinarily good relations with US of A.

Not that simple, but some conniving, shrewd diplomacy can do it, double cross, double talk do whatever is possible.

And Estab. should let all their conniving, duplicitous power not to manipulate and manage the local politcial aspirations and let the govt. function for full term and use all their enery on manipulating and managing the US, EU and the other big powers China, Russai Et al.

That simply is not going to fly.

The West has been ruling the rest not because they could be taken for a ride by some brown people.

You want to eat from Uncle Shmuel table (general Bajwa certainly does) Then be ready to dance to his tune.

Again remember if these Generals were thinking about the future of Pakistan they would then think their future in Pakistan too.

The simple answer is that no Pakistani CoAS has lived in Pakistan Post retirement since 2000 tells anyone willing to listen that these people have absolutely no loyalty to the people they are ruling over.

 

[VCheng]

All this talk of balancing and diplomacy misses the point that the US is irrevocably against Pakistan. We can and should pursue economic interest but, strategically, they will never accept a strong Pakistan. The US will only tolerate a weak Pakistan that is subservient to India. This will not change no matter how much we dance to their tune.

ALL the premises presented in this paragraph are WRONG.

Nothing is irrevocable in international geopolitics. USA helped Pakistan start its atomic program, and sees its nuclear weapons as a guarantor of a war-free subcontinent, and USA clearly can have good relations with both Pakistan and India. This is not an either-or schoolyard game.

 

[nangyale]

I love it when serious conversations go on about Problems with Pakistan and the more important factor is completely ignored or simply not mentioned and that's "the GHQ Factor". Spin it a million miles and blame it on "this and that" will not change the reality, the problem is, was and will remain GHQ...

One of the reason for that could be that such conversations are not allowed in Pakistan or Pakistan focused platforms like this one.

Just as an example two previous threads calling for General Bajwa's resignation have been deleted from this forum in the past two days.

This is the situation on a so-called open high quality platform mainly catering to expats. Now imagine the fear the Generals have created in Pakistan.

The Vigo might be useless in front of an IED or rpg but to suppress the educated classes in cities it's perfect.

 

[Rollno21]

That's weird, you claim Pakistan's future lies with China and yet can't explain why China won't cut you short.
China has insane amount of leverage over you, what do you have on China that you think the relationship is mutual?

They have wishes,hope and imagination.

 

[Dalit]

China never asks Pakistan to choose camps, we want our friends to be everyone's friends, Pakistan's cordial friendship with the west helped China a lot in UN and establishing relations with US, the country served as a bridge between the east and west, which we're very much appreciated.
US will never abandon Pakistan because it always harbors that lingering hope that one day they can manage to turn Pakistan against China and complete their encirclement of China from the west, cutting off one of China's main energy supply routes.

Make no mistake. The people of Pakistan stand shoulder to shoulder with China. The US can wish all its wants.

 

[ziaulislam]

Pakistan can keep good trade relations with US, just as China does. It could be vested and transactional just as China's or any other country.

But throwing the sovereignty away and be a vassal state of US shouldn't be an option. When and If Pakistan take a strong stance with the nation behind it, US will respect that stance.

If one sells to the highest bidder, US will armtwist with coercive power.



How much does China export to the USA?


US$577.13 Billion

China Exports to United States was US$577.13 Billion during 2021, according to the United Nations COMTRADE database on international trade. China Exports to United States - data, historical chart and statistics - was last updated on May of 2022.

Misconception that being lackey of USA will give u better trade

Today USA is biggest export destination for vietname..yes vietcong and china

Its not that they arent alternatives..there are these are low tech stuff but the point is its open world..trade is not aid..usa doesnt want to import clothes from europe..it will cause inflation

Pakistan got 2b,/yr for 20yrs under PMLN PPPP PMLQ what did it acheived

Nothing

Pakistan should join NO groups
It should be independent and navigate super powers without irking anyone

We never develp trade with iran or russia for sake of arab world and usa

 

[HAIDER]

nope Dha > Pakistan
Green card > green passport
AMrikans > Pakistanis
Zardari == Money machine!

DHA almost expanded near Indian border ... what's the plan now ?

 

[SaadH]

If the premise is to be believed that Fauj/Estab. is a state within a state, the holier than thou make-believe rhetoric.

The civilian political system, the government can make a point to keep a warm, extra friendly relations with China and to quite an extent with Russia, don't have to be in any bloc.


The Establishment, the military/Army honchos can keep an extra ordinarily good relations with US of A.

Not that simple, but some conniving, shrewd diplomacy can do it, double cross, double talk do whatever is possible.

And Estab. should let all their conniving, duplicitous power not to manipulate and manage the local politcial aspirations and let the govt. function for full term and use all their enery on manipulating and managing the US, EU and the other big powers China, Russai Et al.

Problem is Uncle Sam is an extremely jealous partner, she won't hand out retirement plans to your Generals without you giving up on cheap Russian oil and wheat and Chinese investments.

It's a binary between either Generals' retirement villa in Virginia and little Johnny's budding career in US corporate world or Pakistani masses getting cheap commodities and economic prosperity...Both can't be had as they are mutually exclusive. Sadly for the Pakistani masses and country as a whole, the Generals have chose the former....

 

[Catalystic]

Pakistan can survive on its own, but only/when/if it gets sincere leadership as well as sincere awaam in true islamic way.
Then whole world would be begging Pakistan…..totally oposite to whats there today.
The gifts Almighty has reserved fir this country cannot be opened/found by those with bad intentions…..I don’t think we need either of them if we become correct ourselves. They’re nothing.

 

[maverick1977]

This is not an option; it is a necessity forced upon us.

All this talk of balancing and diplomacy misses the point that the US is irrevocably against Pakistan. We can and should pursue economic interest but, strategically, they will never accept a strong Pakistan. The US will only tolerate a weak Pakistan that is subservient to India. This will not change no matter how much we dance to their tune.

1. The US' top priority is China containment and they have picked India as their regional ally. To that end, they must weaken Pakistan so India can focus on China.

2. The all-powerful Israeli lobby in the US will continue to push an anti-Pakistan agenda even if we recognize them. Israel will never accept a nuclear-capable Pakistan. It is non-negotiable.

3. The Muslim world is irrelevant. The Arabs and Iranians are locked in their eternal conflict, the Turks are schizophrenic about being part of Europe or Asia, the East Asian Muslim countries are rightfully focusing on domestic issue first.

If Pakistan loses China's trust, that will be the final nail in the coffin for this country. The economic meltdown will be followed by a reduction in military budget and forfeiture of our nuclear assets. For people who think that will never happen, why do they think the civilian and military leadership cannot be bought? Do current events justify such a sanguine self-assurance?

No they dont, they have vested interests in the West.. and they dont give a Eff because their personal interest trump over national interest.