Do you believe that Israel has the right to exist?

[qamar1990]

Shut up - Its our land, we were here way before you were even conceived.

http://archaeology.up.nic.in/doc/mn_jfj.pdf

my ancestors are native to punjab… all pakistanis are pretty much native to the land except maybe you thought right? lol
your ancestors from middle east innit?

 

[dil_dil]

then give our hindu land ! islamic invaders !

lanti hindu your land is ganga land. Soon east punjab and occupied kashmir will be liberated from bhangis. Anyway don't quote me.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

Israel should exist, just not on Palestine.

 

[Archdemon]

It is not a matter of belief, Israel exist, this is a fact.

 

[Aepsilons]

You opened up this thread....what do you think should be the case? Also, others like it or not, Israel is as much of a reality as anything else that exists on the map. Some make the case as to the "land" is someone else's.......so where do many, may millions Jews should go? This is where their generations have lived now just like the Arabs.

So I think everyone should calm the fu*ck down and try to come up with more mature conditions. Palestinians need to realize, what land are they fighting for? The land which I can't ever see emptying up or going on "sale" for the next 100 years (in my lifetime). So....with that in mind, what is it that the Palestinians need since the land is "unavailable"? They need access to education, jobs, economy and investments and growth. All of this won't happen if they keep asking for their land to be vacated and the rocket attacks continue by Hamas. Can both of these guys work towards supporting each other in a two state solution and in return ask each other to treat each other's population without any threats and harm and let people prosper? I think that's easily do-able between any two non-violent parties.

I wish there were Arab leaders who knew how to negotiate democratically and can speak to Israelis with mutual respect. Once the extremism is out of the context and the stance on the "land" becomes more flexible, I am sure the world powers will work with the Palestinians, and I am sure the Israelis would too. This bloodshed for decades needs to stop but the intensity and extremism has to be taken out of these discussions so everyone can move forward towards a mutually agreeable solution.

Hello @orangzaib ,

I definitely believe that Israel is a recognized democratic nation that has a very productive interaction and relationship with most of the world. In regards to the Palestinian issue, I believe that the framework for a two state solution can be ironed out as soon as the environment around Israel is warm, positive. You as well as I know that the majority of the nations around Israel do not recognize the existence of Israel, have no formal diplomatic links with each other; case in point the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, which does not officially recognize the State of Israel.

I believe that a culture of understanding needs to exist -- needs to be sown so that regional neighbors recognize Israel's existence, and can eventually talk about the Two State Solution, without the worry and concerns of existential threats. I understand that Palestinian people have rights to the land in Gaza, West Bank and even territories within Israel.

What I believe should be done to foster engagement:

1) Palestinian recognition of the State of Israel

2) Israeli recognition of the State of Palestine

3) Establishing of set boundaries, and shared patrol of common border

4) The evacuation of Israeli military forces form Gaza and West Bank

5) Termination of the naval blockade of Gaza, restoration of port trade for Gaza

6) Israeli investment of Palestinian infrastructure

7) Increase the development of schools, universities, hospitals in Palestine

8) Investment of irrigation methods in Gaza and Palestine, produce land reclamation projects

9) A directive to encourage member states of the Arab League to recognize the existence of the State of Israel, establish diplomatic relationship with Israel

10) Eventual consideration of dual Palestinian - Israeli citizenship , with all rights included

 

[Falcon29]

@Nihonjin1051

What's the point of this thread?

 

[Falcon29]

@Nihonjin1051

Your question makes no sense, it is tinkering around with the English language to put up a cleverly worded question meant to allow Israel to continue its current colonial project Palestine by throwing up a meaningless question which isn't well defined. It is often used by apologists for Israel.

The better question would be:

'Do you believe Israel in its current state is an illegitimate state?'

..............
And if someone gave an answer saying no. Then that is your answer. You can't try correcting him by citing international consensus or documents. Because you are asking for his personal belief. I'm assuming that would mean you would almost want to observe peoples personal beliefs.

But, it seems to be the opposite, people try tying it to multiple premises which seems like an intent to confuse people to me. It is a question that is posed to leave people to try to guess why it's adopted.

When I read your title, I don't know what that question means. Does it mean any of the following:

-Do you believe in Israel as a Jewish state?
-Do you believe in the current Israeli borders?(They don't declare them)
-Do you believe in an Israel that defines in it's constitution(Doesn't exist) what a 'Jewish' state means?

...............

Etc... Etc...

You see what I did there. I made your whole question unjustifiable. It is illegitimate. It has no specific clear point. Because I know what your intent is in asking this question. It is a trap, and whoever came up with this question/ploy was clever.

.................

So one thing I want to tell you is, when you are asking your 'Middle Eastern' colleagues this question. Know that we don't like playing these games. If you want to our input, you gave us a specific question. You tell what you hope to gain out of this question. You also need to justify why you're asking such a question which Israeli apologists use to evade the reality on the ground of an ever necessary peace.

........................

How do you guys think I summed this up? @qamar1990 @Desert Fox @airmarshal @Serpentine @IbnTaymiyyah

If you want to, feel free to use my argument here. Because this game is used by a lot of people to shoulder exclusive blame on the Palestinians for the inability to reach a two state solution.

 

[XenoEnsi-14]

@Nihonjin1051

Your question makes no sense, it is tinkering around with the English language to put up a cleverly worded question meant to allow Israel to continue its current colonial project Palestine by throwing up a meaningless question which isn't well defined. It is often used by apologists for Israel.

The better question would be:

'Do you believe Israel in its current state is an illegitimate state?'

..............
And if someone gave an answer saying no. Then that is your answer. You can't try correcting him by citing international consensus or documents. Because you are asking for his personal belief. I'm assuming that would mean you would almost want to observe peoples personal beliefs.

But, it seems to be the opposite, people try tying it to multiple premises which seems like an intent to confuse people to me. It is a question that is posed to leave people to try to guess why it's adopted.

When I read your title, I don't know what that question means. Does it mean any of the following:

-Do you believe in Israel as a Jewish state?
-Do you believe in the current Israeli borders?(They don't declare them)
-Do you believe in an Israel that defines in it's constitution(Doesn't exist) what a 'Jewish' state means?

...............

Etc... Etc...

You see what I did there. I made your whole question unjustifiable. It is illegitimate. It has no specific clear point. Because I know what your intent is in asking this question. It is a trap, and whoever came up with this question/ploy was clever.

.................

So one thing I want to tell you is, when you are asking your 'Middle Eastern' colleagues this question. Know that we don't like playing these games. If you want to our input, you gave us a specific question. You tell what you hope to gain out of this question. You also need to justify why you're asking such a question which Israeli apologists use to evade the reality on the ground of an ever necessary peace.

........................

How do you guys think I summed this up? @qamar1990 @Desert Fox @airmarshal @Serpentine @IbnTaymiyyah

If you want to, feel free to use my argument here. Because this game is used by a lot of people to shoulder exclusive blame on the Palestinians for the inability to reach a two state solution.

I was just gonna say it was a loaded question.

 

[R2D2]

Well! Japan should invest in reconstruction of Gaza, build schools, invest in agriculture and give scholarships to Palestinians in Japanese universities and teach Martial Arts to Palestinian Youth to counter Krav Maga.

When the Muslims rise again they will delete Israel and send the Zionists to South America.
On How to DELETE Israel

Japanese were our allies in Indian freedom struggle in WW2 and they supported the Free Indian Army in liberating Burma. When the Muslims rise again they will help Japan in rebuilding its military power and open up huge markets in the Muslim world for Japanese products.

Subhas Chandra Bose (Indian military leader) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

 

[R2D2]

Well! Japan should invest in reconstruction of Gaza, build schools, invest in agriculture and give scholarships to Palestinians in Japanese universities and teach Martial Arts to Palestinian Youth to counter Krav Maga.

When the Muslims rise again they will delete Israel and send the Zionists to South America.
On How to DELETE Israel

Japanese were our allies in Indian freedom struggle in WW2 and they supported the Free Indian Army in liberating Burma. When the Muslims rise again they will help Japan in rebuilding its military power and open up huge markets in the Muslim world for Japanese products.

Subhas Chandra Bose (Indian military leader) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

I would add that the Afghans and Arabs value the Toyota single cabin as much as their Klashinkovs

 

[Aepsilons]

@Hazzy997 ,

My question is direct and there are no hidden agendas or traps intended. I just wanted to know if members here believe that Israel has a right to exist as a state. In my opinion, I believe that both Palestine and Israel have a right to exist. We cannot deny any state its existence, in my opinion.

As for the current situation ; I believe that there are many issues that are barriers to to the realization of the Two State Solution. But I believe that the points I mentioned in my last post could herald towards this realization.

I know that you as a Palestinian are sensitive about this issue regarding Israel, as I'm sure there are many other Middle Eastern members here who might be antagonistic towards Israel. Given the violence and history , I am empathetic.

I believe that PDF can be used as a mechanism for many of us who are not well versed or exposed to the histories of the region and the issues at hand.

Thank you and I hope that clarifies my position.


Sincerely,
@Nihonjin1051

Well! Japan should invest in reconstruction of Gaza, build schools, invest in agriculture and give scholarships to Palestinians in Japanese universities and teach Martial Arts to Palestinian Youth to counter Krav Maga.

I like to view things in the vision of cause and effect.

For me, I believe that there are many necessary investments needed in Gaza and the West Bank. There are lack of schools, universities, hospitals in the region. There are very few jobs as well, which increases the dire situation. This is exacerbated by the blockade that has been imposed on Gaza. By improving the infrastructure of Palestine and Israel, and focusing on measures that reduce extremism, as well as inducing the Israeli side to cease military provocation, there is no reason why a Two State Solution cannot be realized.

 

[IR1907]

I believe that Israel has every right to exist as a nation state, and is already existing, included into the family of nations. What I would like to ask some of my Middle Eastern colleagues is this: what will it take for the region to recognize the State of Israel and to officially begin proper diplomatic talks?

lol dude, most of these jews that are residing illegaly in occupied Palestine are jews from all over the world, they have ZERO connection to the land of Palestine.

Can you explain to me how a jew that has lived in Poland for all of his life and then makes the aliyah (Aliyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is considered native ?

These bitches have been brought by the British snakes to create conflicts in this region.

 

[Aepsilons]

lol dude, most of these jews that are residing illegaly in occupied Palestine are jews from all over the world, they have ZERO connection to the land of Palestine.

I'm very well aware of the settlements that are in the West Bank, these should be removed as it is in violation of previous accords.

 

[fatman17]

yes Israel has a right to exist as long as it gives the palestinians their rightful rights and lands to exist also.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

lol dude, most of these jews that are residing illegaly in occupied Palestine are jews from all over the world, they have ZERO connection to the land of Palestine.

Can you explain to me how a jew that has lived in Poland for all of his life and then makes the aliyah (Aliyah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia is considered native ?

These bitches have been brought by the British snakes to create conflicts in this region.

Serious question, although I doubt I will get a serious answer: all humanity originated in Africa, so no population can be considered truly "indigenous" to a particular geography. Therefore, that designation is arbitrary. How long do Jews have to live in Israel before they are considered indigenous to the area, as are Arabs to North Africa, or Turks to Turkey?