What's new

Disproving some genocide claims

Status
Not open for further replies.
This article was published in Times magazine, US on October 25, 1971. USA was supporting Pakistan shamelessly and it is very difficult to find US media blaming USA's allies in a war. So the article below reduces the facts regarding the atrocities in 1971. Nonetheless, even that "reduced amount of truth" is horrifying!

East Pakistan: Even the Skies Weep - TIME


East Pakistan: Even the Skies Weep
Monday, Oct. 25, 1971

IN New Delhi last week, one member of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's Cabinet was heard to remark: "War is inevitable." In Islamabad, President Agha Mohammed Yahya Khan spent the better part of a 40-minute television speech railing against the Indians, whom he accused of "whipping up a war frenzy." Along their borders, east and west, both India and Pakistan massed troops. Both defended the action as precautionary, but there was a real danger that a minor border incident could suddenly engulf the subcontinent in all-out war.


Several factors are at work to reduce the likelihood of such an explosion. The Indian-Soviet friendship treaty, signed early in August, deters India from waging war without consulting the Soviets. At the same time, rising discontent and political and economic pressures within West Pakistan have also placed restraints on Strongman Yahya Khan and his military regime. Nonetheless, war remains a distinct possibility. As Mrs. Gandhi said last week at a public meeting in South India: "We must be prepared for any eventuality."

Intolerable Strain. The current dispute has grown out of the Pakistani army's harsh repression of a Bengali movement demanding greater autonomy for the much-exploited eastern sector of the divided nation. The resulting flood of impoverished East Pakistani refugees has placed an intolerable strain on India's already overburdened economy. New Delhi has insisted from the first that the refugees, who now number well over 9,000,000 by official estimates, must be allowed to return safely to their homes in East Pakistan.

Before that is possible, however, a political solution must be found that would end the Pakistani army's reign of terror, wanton destruction and pogroms aimed particularly at the 10 million members of the Hindu minority in predominantly Moslem East Pakistan (pop. 78 million at the start of the civil war).


Once, Sheik Mujibur ("Mujib") Rahman, leader of the Awami League, the East's majority party, might have held the key to that solution. As the overwhelming winner of the country's first national elections last December Mujib stood to become Prime Minister of Pakistan; now he is on trial for his life before a secret military tribunal in the West on charges of treason.

Though Islamabad has ordered the military command to ease off on its repressive tactics, refugees are still trekking into India at the rate of about 30,000 a day, telling of villages burned, residents shot, and prominent figures carried off and never heard from again. One of the more horrible revelations concerns 563 young Bengali women, some only 18, who have been held captive inside Dacca's dingy military cantonment since the first days of the fighting. Seized from Dacca University and private homes and forced into military brothels, the girls are all three to five months pregnant. The army is reported to have enlisted Bengali gynecologists to abort girls held at military installations. But for those at the Dacca cantonment it is too late for abortion. The military has begun freeing the girls a few at a time, still carrying the babies of Pakistani soldiers.

A Million Dead. No one knows how many have died in the seven-month-old civil war. But in Karachi, a source with close connections to Yahya's military regime concedes: "The generals say the figure is at least 1,000,000." Punitive raids by the Pakistani army against villages near sites sabotaged by the Mukti Bahini, the Bengali liberation army, are an everyday occurrence.

The fighting is expected to increase sharply in the next few weeks, with the end of the monsoon rains. Both the Pakistani army, most of whose 80,000 troops are bunkered down along the Indian border, and the Mukti Bahini, with as many as 60,000 guerrilla fighters, have said that they will soon open major new military offensives.

Plentiful Arms. On a recent trip deep into Mukti Bahini territory, TIME Correspondent Dan Coggin found an almost surreal scene. He cabled:

"Leaving the road behind, I entered a strange world where water is seasonal king and the only transport is a large, cane-covered canoe known as the country boat. For seven hours we plied deeper into Gopalganj subdivision in southern Faridpur district. The two wiry oarsmen found their way by taking note of such landmarks as a forlornly decaying maharajah's palace and giant butterfly nets hovering like outsized flamingos on stilt legs at water's edge.

"As darkness approached, we were able to visit two neighboring villages, with about 25 guerrillas living among the local folk in each. The guerrillas were mostly men in their 20s, some ex-college students, others former soldiers, militiamen and police. Their arms were various but plentiful, and they had ammunition, mines and grenades.

"A Mukti Bahini captain told me that the Bengali rebels are following the three-stage guerrilla warfare strategy of the Viet Cong, and are now in the first phase of organization and staging hit-and-run attacks. So far the guerrillas in the captain's area of operations have lost about 50 men, and larger army attacks are expected. But the Mukti Bahini plan to mount ambushes and avoid meeting army firepower headon.

"On my way back to Dacca next day, I came upon a convoy trucker who had been waiting for five days for his turn to board a ferry and cross the miles-wide junction of the great Ganges and Brahmaputra rivers. As we huddled under the tailgate to keep dry, a shopkeeper joined us. Gazing at the puddle forming beneath us, he said: 'Even the skies are weeping for this land.' "

Always Hungry. As conditions within East Pakistan have worsened, so have those of the refugees in India. The stench from poor sanitation facilities hangs heavy in the air. Rajinder Kumar, 32, formerly a clerk in Dacca, says he is "always hungry" on his daily grain ration of 300 grams (about 1½ cups). His three children each get half that much. "They cry for more," he says, "but there isn't any more."

Malnutrition has reached desperate proportions among the children. Dr. John Seamon, a British doctor with the Save the Children Fund who has traveled extensively among the 1,000 or so scattered refugee camps estimates that 150,000 children between the ages of one and eight have died, and that 500,000 more are suffering from serious malnutrition and related diseases.

It is now officially estimated that refugees will swell to 12 million by the end of the year. The cost to the Indian government for the fiscal year ending next March 31 may run as high as $830 million. The U.S. so far has supplied $83.2 million for the refugees, and $137 million in "humanitarian" relief inside East Pakistan. Two weeks ago, the Nixon Administration asked Congress to grant an additional $250 million.

Senator Edward Kennedy charges that the U.S. is sending another sort of aid to the subcontinent as well. In spite of a State Department freeze on new military aid shipments to Pakistan, says Kennedy, the Pentagon has signed new defense contracts totaling nearly $10 million with the Pakistan government within the past five months. Kennedy's investigation also revealed that U.S. firms have received State Department licenses to ship to Pakistan arms and ammunition purchased from the Soviet Union and in Eastern Europe.

Catalyst for Violence. Observers doubt that the situation would ease even if Yahya were to release Mujib and lift a ban on the Awami League. Where the Bengalis once were merely demanding greater autonomy, they now seem determined to fight for outright independence.

In his speech last week, Yahya also announced that the National Assembly would be convened in December, immediately following by-elections in the East to fill the Assembly seats vacated by disqualified Awami Leaguers. With the main party banned from participation, however, the election is likely to provoke more violence. Already the Mukti Bahini have vowed to treat candidates as dalals ("collaborators").

Nonetheless, Yahya may find himself compelled to put his government at least partly in civilian hands. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, leader of West Pakistan's majority Pakistan People's Party and Yahya's most probable choice for Prime Minister, has become more and more outspoken about "the rule of the generals." Recently he said: "The long night of terror must end. The people of Pakistan must take their destiny in their own hands." Formerly that sort of talk would have landed him in jail. Now even Yahya seems to have recognized that unless the military allows some sort of civilian rule it may face trouble in the West as well as in the ravaged East.
 
. .
Gromell,

If you go through the thread, several arguments, including declassified State Department documents, have been used to argue that a genocide did not occur and the figures are horribly inflated.

I would be interested in seeing your rebuttals to the points raised already.
 
.
This article was published in Times magazine, US on October 25, 1971. USA was supporting Pakistan shamelessly and it is very difficult to find US media blaming USA's allies in a war. So the article below reduces the facts regarding the atrocities in 1971. Nonetheless, even that "reduced amount of truth" is horrifying!

Nixon apparently disliked Indira personally, referring to her as a "witch" and "clever fox" in his private communication with Secretary of State Henry Kissinger (now released by the State Department).
Indira Gandhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A "witch" and "clever fox" were the perfect words to decribe her and Sikhs of India also realized that about her in 1984.
 
. . .
Nixon apparently disliked Indira personally, referring to her as a "witch" and "clever fox" in his private communication with Secretary of State Henry Kissinger (now released by the State Department).
Indira Gandhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A "witch" and "clever fox" were the perfect words to decribe her and Sikhs of India also realized that about her in 1984.

You made me laugh. A devil like Nixon called Indira witch and fox and you took them as holy words. Well Nixon's successors called Islam as terrorism. They see the true religion as threat. do you also take that as granted?
 
.
Gromell,

If you go through the thread, several arguments, including declassified State Department documents, have been used to argue that a genocide did not occur and the figures are horribly inflated.

I would be interested in seeing your rebuttals to the points raised already.

Read what i posted. They are authentic US documents signed by actual US diplomats who were on the spot in 1971. They clearly called it "Genocide" and "Selective Genocide". Read them.
 
.
One of the most brilliant interviews given by one of the smartest state leaders of the 20th century AD.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Some of the brilliant Dhaka University professors killed and dumped. What kind of people can do that?!:S

 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Read what i posted. They are authentic US documents signed by actual US diplomats who were on the spot in 1971. They clearly called it "Genocide" and "Selective Genocide". Read them.

Post the relevant excerpts please, and what evidence was used to substantiate their conclusions. Mujib himself offered figures on the numbers of dead that varied wildly.

IIRC, there was an article posted here related to declassified State Department documents related to 1971 that in fact indicated the death toll was no where close to that claimed by revisionist Indian and Bangladeshi historians.

Atrocities were indeed committed, by both sides, and they are to be regretted, but beyond hyperbole and extreme extrapolation from a few gory events I have yet to come across any conclusive unbiased evidence indicating either genocide or the claimed numbers killed.
 
.
"Beware! Whoever is cruel and hard on a non-Muslim minority, or curtails their rights, or burdens them with more than they can bear, or takes anything from them against their free will; I (Prophet Muhammad) will complain against that person on the Day of Judgment." (Abu Dawud)

now watch this. watch how Pakistani army treated the minorities and muslims.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
Post the relevant excerpts please, and what evidence was used to substantiate their conclusions. Mujib himself offered figures on the numbers of dead that varied wildly.

IIRC, there was an article posted here related to declassified State Department documents related to 1971 that in fact indicated the death toll was no where close to that claimed by revisionist Indian and Bangladeshi historians.

Atrocities were indeed committed, by both sides, and they are to be regretted, but beyond hyperbole and extreme extrapolation from a few gory events I have yet to come across any conclusive unbiased evidence indicating either genocide or the claimed numbers killed.

Which one of my comments did you find irrelevant?!! Please specify.

If it was not 3 million it was 2 million...one and half million. does a million muslims killed in 9 months sounds nothing to you?:S Sheikh Mujib's version did not vary. It was not possible to count all the dead so quickly, specially for a govt of a country that was rebuilding from scratch. Sheikh Mujib, when knew the exact figure finally, informed us. There was no reason to exaggerate. I did not claim any biased news source to show you evidence. I posted the link where you can see the scanned image of the US government file that US state department declassified few years ago. Read it yourself. It's a click away.

Atrocities were committed by both sides?!! I never heard Bengali freedom fighters went to West Pakistan and massacred muslims and christian minorities there! Did they?! How could one compare the scale of atrocities while Mukti bahini was defending its people that Pakistan army was fighting against?!
 
Last edited:
.
^^^ Again, I am not interested in hyperbole and odd incidents fro here and there.

I have heard enough first hand accounts from people who were in East Pakistan about the atrocities of the rebels, as well as second hand accounts from their loved ones, passed down to them from those who suffered. War is ugly, civil wars especially, and neither side was innocent in the blood bath.

Let me know when you actually come up with some evidence showing anywhere close to the numbers claimed by the revisionist Indian and Bangladeshi historians.

The historian branch of the State Department held a two-day conference on June 28 and 29 on US policy in South Asia between 1961 and 1972, inviting scholars from India, Pakistan and Bangladesh to express their views on the declassified documents.

During the seminar, Bangladeshi scholars acknowledged that their official figure of more than 3 million killed during and after the military action was not authentic.

They said that the original figure was close to 300,000, which was wrongly translated from Bengali into English as three million.

Shamsher M. Chowdhury, the Bangladesh ambassador in Washington who was commissioned in the Pakistan Army in 1969 but had joined his country’s war of liberation in 1971, acknowledged that Bangladesh alone cannot correct this mistake. Instead, he suggested that Pakistan and Bangladesh form a joint commission to investigate the 1971 disaster and prepare a report.

Almost all scholars agreed that the real figure was somewhere between 26,000, as reported by the Hamoodur Rahman Commission, and not three million, the official figure put forward by Bangladesh and India.

Prof Sarmila Bose, an Indian academic, told the seminar that allegations of Pakistani army personnel raping Bengali women were grossly exaggerated.

Based on her extensive interviews with eyewitnesses, the study also determines the pattern of conflict as three-layered: West Pakistan versus East Pakistan, East Pakistanis (pro-Independence) versus East Pakistanis (pro-Union) and the fateful war between India and Pakistan.

Prof Bose noted that no neutral study of the conflict has been done and reports that are passed on as part of history are narratives that strengthen one point of view by rubbishing the other. The Bangladeshi narratives, for instance, focus on the rape issue and use that not only to demonize the Pakistan army but also exploit it as a symbol of why it was important to break away from (West) Pakistan.""
Sheikh Mujib wanted a confederation: US papers -DAWN - National; July 7, 2005
 
.
quoting one indian professor and nameless bangladeshi academics on a meeting held by Americans, who were the allies of Pakistan in 1971, all these printed in a pakistani newspaper and trying to disprove the truth based on them is wonderful. you surely don't like odd incidents!!! How did you show any evidence there?! Who is samsher mobin chowdhury?! He is a noone in Bangladesh! There is neither any official paper of witness account from 1971 that you stated there nor you could come up with any logical sense of the equation. You heard west pakistani accounts? you tried to hear Bangladeshi ones?!


"And We have set a barrier before them and a barrier behind them and covered them from above, therefore they see nothing." (Surah Ya-sin ayat 9)
 
.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom