[DISCUSSION] Should Pakistan and China enter a formal military alliance with each other?

[Chinese-Dragon]

The US and Pakistan are 'allies' by name only. The only benefits for Pakistan in the whole Major non-NATO ally bs is that we had access to specific western technology. But the Americans have blocked that recently anyway so what does Pakistan as a nation get from this? It is redundant now and both sides know it. In regards to declaring war - that's what it means to be in a military alliance and that's what I am suggesting Pakistan and China do. This would be no joke to anyone. Each side has to be willing to sacrifice for one another.

I agree. Pakistan has gained nothing from their alliance with the US except for pain and suffering, significant losses in terms of people and wealth.

I forsee Pakistan dumping their alliance with the US and choosing a proper alliance with China instead, maybe not in the next few years but in the medium-term at least.

 

[Imad.Khan]

The SCO is definitely not a military alliance.

We do have mutual goals with China. More so than any other country including the SC Sea. They have helped and continue to help us in everything - we should help them in any way we can too. Including any potential war in the future. But I doubt any country on the planet would dare a war against China right now let alone China and Pakistan! If anything it'd be an extremely powerful deterrent. I disagree that military alliances are signed between countries of equal strength. If anything countries of equal strength don't sign such a binding treaty because they often see themselves as rivals. Pakistan and China on the other hand are a perfect match (imo).

@Chinese-Dragon has summed it up perfectly, Military alliance is not something to be taken lightly. We also need to see what can Pakistan bring to the table for China to even consider a military alliance with Pakistan. They can have a conditional defence alliance where if either countries get attacked then the other country will come to assist but if one country initiates a war then the other country is not bound to join.

As far as US and Israel alliance goes, US administration is controlled by Zionist, they also control the media and the banks. Hence the alliance.

IMO if China is going to sign any future military alliances it will only be with Russia and will be directed against the US, unless they decide to build a military alliance like NATO, only then Pakistan might be part of it. A one-on-one military alliance with China and Pakistan is not going to happen.

 

[war&peace]

however Pakistan is still nominally a major ally of the United States.

Will Pakistan officially drop the United States as an ally? Will Pakistan declare war on them if China does so?

Pakistan will eventually drop any cooperation with USA since the latter has been backstabbing the former for quite a long time and this major non-Nato is nothing but an American BS. America's major ally in the region is India and it does not need any elaboration. Pakistan and US interests do not align.

Military Alliances are formed between countries with mutual goals and usually between countries of equal strength. Pakistan and China do not have same military goals and they are definitely not on par in terms of strength. Now lets look at the countries that China could potentially go to war with. US, Japan, Taiwan, India, SEAN (South East Asian Nations). Leaving India aside would Pakistan join the war alongside China in case of war with any of those countries?

So a full fledged military alliance is not going to happen, but maybe a temp alliance against a specific country might be possible.

So you are saying Poland is equal in strength to USA?

 

[Enigma_]

@Chinese-Dragon has summed it up perfectly, Military alliance is not something to be taken lightly. We also need to see what can Pakistan bring to the table for China to even consider a military alliance with Pakistan. They can have a conditional defence alliance where if either countries get attacked then the other country will come to assist but if one country initiates a war then the other country is not bound to join.

This is a defensive alliance and that's not what I am suggesting. I am saying that Pakistan and China should enter a military alliance where both countries are bound to each other even in acts of aggression.

As far as US and Israel alliance goes, US administration is controlled by Zionist, they also control the media and the banks. Hence the alliance.

I was just using them as an example. Besides if anything this strengthens my point - if their alliance is based on coercion and shenanigans then China and Pakistan cooperation is without a doubt the deepest in the world right now.

IMO if China is going to sign any future military alliances it will be with Russia only, unless they decide to build a military alliance like NATO, only then Pakistan might be part of it. A one-on-one military alliance with China and Pakistan is not going to happen.

I don't know - I can see it in the next decade or so as Chinese Dragon said. In my view this sort of pact makes perfect sense.

 

[Imad.Khan]

Mutual goals yes, strength maybe not.
How many countries in NATO are equal in strength? Italy wasnt equal in strength to Germany in WW2.

Maybe i should have put in "or" inbetween mutual goals and military strength. I think that would have better conveyed my message.

Pakistan will eventually drop any cooperation with USA since the latter has been backstabbing the former for quite a long time and this major non-Nato is nothing but an American BS. America's major ally in the region is India and it does not need any elaboration. Pakistan and US interests do not align.


So you are saying Poland is equal in strength to USA?

Same as above

This is a defensive alliance and that's not what I am suggesting. I am saying that Pakistan and China should enter a military alliance where both countries are bound to each other even in acts of aggression.

I was just using them as an example. Besides if anything this strengthens my point - if their alliance is based on coercion and shenanigans then China and Pakistan cooperation is without a doubt the deepest in the world right now.


I don't know - I can see it in the next decade or so as Chinese Dragon said. In my view this sort of pact makes perfect sense.

You still haven't addressed the part where i said " What does Pakistan bring to the table for China to even consider a full fledged military alliance.

 

[imadul]

A very good advice. There has been some noise it in a section of press. Seeing how Pakistan military and civilian leadership shiver before white masters.

 

[Enigma_]

You still haven't addressed the part where i said " What does Pakistan bring to the table for China to even consider a full fledged military alliance.

What do you mean? This should be pretty obvious considering Pakistan's military is pretty strong, I mean it isn't super power level but it offers a lot to China. Manpower is the first and foremost, not to mention use of land itself including naval and air bases that could prove decisive in any war situation. Our own naval and air power is pretty good to launch attacks. I mean I can get more elaborate on such things but I would need to do research but Pakistan offers more than enough to China for a military alliance to take place.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Economically and Militarily our access is limited , so if China declare war on anyone we cant do much .. the only country that is stuck between China and Pakistan is India , China can come to our aid and support in case of a Conflict with India .. but we can't come to their Aid or support ( i don't think they need anyway ) in case they go to war with Taiwan or USA .

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Economically and Militarily our access is limited , so if China declare war on anyone we cant do much .. the only country that is stuck between China and Pakistan is India , China can come to our aid and support in case of a Conflict with India .. but we can't come to their Aid or support ( i don't think they need anyway ) in case they go to war with Taiwan or USA .

That's fair, I don't think China will force Pakistan to send men and equipment in case of a war breaking out with Taiwan, USA or anyone else.

But if we do sign a mutual defence treaty you will have to make an official declaration of war, even if you don't send troops.

China on the other hand will certainly send troops, ships and aircraft, the whole deal. As history shows, China takes mutual defence treaties very seriously, and to abandon them is an unacceptable loss of face.

 

[Imad.Khan]

What do you mean? This should be pretty obvious considering Pakistan's military is pretty strong, I mean it isn't super power level but it offers a lot to China. Manpower is the first and foremost, not to mention use of land itself including naval and air bases that could prove decisive in any war situation. Our own naval and air power is pretty good to launch attacks. I mean I got more elaborate on such things but I would need to do research but Pakistan offers more than enough to China for a military alliance to take place.

Let me clarify, if China goes to war with Japan, what can Pakistan do? What if China goes to war with US, again how would Pakistan be able to help China militarily? Can Pakistan attack US on its own soil or for example invade Taiwan? What if China goes to war with Saudi Arabia?

You mentioned Pakistan has man-power, China has an active strength of 2.35million with another 2.3million reserves. China has around 3000 fighters jets and it can pump out more as fast as it wants, Pakistan has around 400. So again what does Pakistan bring to the table for China to even consider having a military alliance with Pakistan?

 

[war&peace]

Maybe i should have put in "or" inbetween mutual goals and military strength. I think that would have better conveyed my message.



Same as above



You still haven't addressed the part where i said " What does Pakistan bring to the table for China to even consider a full fledged military alliance.

A lot actually. If you knew the war dynamics, you won't be asking this question. Even a small country on your side brings a lot to the table and Pakistan is nuclear power and a military power in the region that has battled an enemy much larger in size and an army that is considered to be among top in terms of quality. Furthermore, Pakistan and China have a common land border so Pakistan provide an alternative route to China to keep its communication lines open.

 

[YeBeWarned]

That's fair, I don't think China will force Pakistan to send men and equipment in case of a war breaking out with Taiwan, USA or anyone else.

But if we do sign a mutual defence treaty you will have to make an official declaration of war, even if you don't send troops.

China on the other hand will certainly send troops, ships and aircraft, the whole deal. As history shows, China takes mutual defence treaties very seriously, and to abandon them is an unacceptable loss of face.

that is good thing about China, they won't force us into anything unlike Americans ..
Official Declaration of War is very serious in this century , declaring war on one country is not even possible cause than you have to deal with the Allies as well .

 

[Imad.Khan]

A lot actually. If you knew the war dynamics, you won't be asking this question. Even a small country on your side brings a lot to the table and Pakistan is nuclear power and a military power in the region that has battled an enemy much larger in size and an army that is considered to be among top in terms of quality. Furthermore, Pakistan and China have a common land border so Pakistan provide an alternative route to China to keep its communication lines open.

Ok maybe i might not be as educated in war dynamics as you, but i have a valid question and i am yet to get an answer to the questions i have raised previously. As for having a battle hardened military and a common land border, how does that help China in case a war with US, or Japan or Taiwan.

 

[Enigma_]

Let me clarify, if China goes to war with Japan, what can Pakistan do? What if China goes to war with US, again how would Pakistan be able to help China militarily? Can Pakistan attack US on its own soil or for example invade Taiwan? What if China goes to war with Saudi Arabia?

You mentioned Pakistan has man-power, China has an active strength of 2.35million with another 2.3million reserves. China has around 3000 fighters jets and it can pump out more as fast as it wants, Pakistan has around 400. So again what does Pakistan bring to the table for China to even consider having a military alliance with Pakistan?

Good debate mate. I'll reply later as I don't have time right now haha.

 

[Arsalan 345]

Both China and Pakistan need each other.i think it's china who is responsible for recent friendly ties of Pakistan with russia.i think to counter America,we need russia and China.china have massive influence and they are very civilized people.russia is still a super power.russian army is the deadliest army.america will definitely try to destabilize Pakistan because it's not going to leave afghanistan.we must do a pact with China that if America or India wage a war against Pakistan in future,china will intervene.russia might help us against americans.they are bitter enemies of each other.in the coming years, situation in this region is going to be bad.we must trust china as an important partner.what can we offer to china? Well china knows our situation.we can't help china against bigger nations but we can provide them complete access to Pakistani waters.basically we can allow them to use Pakistani ports to counter enemy.gwadar might become crucial in the coming years because America will never allow china to sit here in gwadar.what Pakistan can get from China? They are making all their weapons and we can buy more sams more ammo more fighters.they are our best friend.