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[DISCUSSION] Should Pakistan and China enter a formal military alliance with each other?

Should Pakistan and China enter a formal military alliance?

  • No (Why?)

  • Yes (Why?)


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Enigma_

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Now now hear me out. I know a lot of people will be against this and what not but this is just meant to be a thread for (friendly) discussion on this... well not that unlikely possibility. So I am of the amateur opinion of a Yes - that we should if both parties agreed.

Why? Well firstly consider the two countries recent ventures - CPEC, open support of each other on international forums and military cooperation (air, navy and army) both in Pakistan and China. Of recent times I can't think of two countries that have been so friendly to each other on all things cooperation except maybe the US and Israel. Next thing is to consider is how much both populations consider themselves to be friends (heck some even brothers and sisters). Especially on the Pakistani side as shown by the recent polls that were conducted. This is a massive surprise to me since as a Pakistani I know most people in the country are obviously Islamic and no doubt because of that they will always say Saudi Arabia/Iran etc. - I have seen this with my own eyes when I visited recently. It is well known that China is an atheist society and to have such a cultural gap and still be friendly to one another in this regard should definitely not be taken lightly and in my opinion is the biggest factor of my support if this military alliance. Think about it, if the two countries agree with one another on all issues from the government to the civilians then shouldn't that be formally recognised by both countries openly and internationally? Not only that this has the potential to change geopolitics forever. Especially in all things Asia. Remember that even the so-called 'ummah' countries in the Middle East haven't cared about Pakistan as much as the Chinese have throughout their existence. Which reminds me of my last point. History - as of 1947. Not only was Pakistan one of the first countries to recognize the PRC but also one of the few that actually openly engaged diplomatically and economically with the new country and opened it to the rest of the world leading to an economic boom like the world has never seen before. I am not saying that Pakistan deserves the credit for China's rise - far from it because that's all down to their hard work but we certainly helped them out in a time where any red country was seen as hostile to most of the western world. Since then our ties on all fields from both sides have grown exponentially to the point where international media (i.e. western and indian media) have labelled this partnership as a growing threat and the good old 'axis' term is being thrown around too. This is my brief take on it PDF posters.

I would like to finish off by saying that I am not suggesting a blind agreement between the two nations. Obviously their will be deliberations by both sides if such an alliance was to be recognized formally and openly - as should be the case. But this is a golden opportunity to tie a knot between two friendly countries during a time of geopolitical uncertainty, instability and growing hostile powers to the two countries. Make no mistake - that two countries that love and appreciate each other so much shouldn't hesitate to let the world know; especially their enemies that both share a common destiny and are willing to help each other through all challenges and conflicts. It would send ripples through the world and would cause a massive change in global politics.

So discuss (and vote) people, would love to know your viewpoints. Both against and for such a proposal.

NB. I know all Indians will be opposed to this so if you don't have anything meaningful to add to the discussion don't bother as I will automatically skip your post.

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Absolutely. Our interests are aligned. We respect each other. There is shared economic interests. And so on....
 
Pakistan supports China's views on international issues, and China supports Pakistans. If there was any war, its likely that there would be mutual interests so an alliance could be beneficial for both.

Although, isn't this idea pretty much redundant because of our membership in the SCO?
 
Military Alliances are formed between countries with mutual goals and usually between countries of equal strength. Pakistan and China do not have same military goals and they are definitely not on par in terms of strength. Now lets look at the countries that China could potentially go to war with. US, Japan, Taiwan, India, SEAN (South East Asian Nations). Leaving India aside would Pakistan join the war alongside China in case of war with any of those countries?

So a full fledged military alliance is not going to happen, but maybe a temp alliance against a specific country might be possible.
 
Pakistan supports China's views on international issues, and China supports Pakistans. If there was any war, its likely that there would be mutual interests so an alliance could be beneficial for both.

Although, isn't this idea pretty much redundant because of our membership in the SCO?
The SCO is definitely not a military alliance.
Military Alliances are formed between countries with mutual goals and usually between countries of equal strength. Pakistan and China do not have same military goals and they are definitely not on par in terms of strength. Now lets look at the countries that China could potentially go to war with. US, Japan, Taiwan, India, SEAN (South East Asian Nations). Leaving India aside would Pakistan join the war alongside China in case of war with any of those countries?

So a full fledged military alliance is not going to happen, but maybe a temp alliance against a specific country might be possible.
We do have mutual goals with China. More so than any other country including the SC Sea. They have helped and continue to help us in everything - we should help them in any way we can too. Including any potential war in the future. But I doubt any country on the planet would dare a war against China right now let alone China and Pakistan! If anything it'd be an extremely powerful deterrent. I disagree that military alliances are signed between countries of equal strength. If anything countries of equal strength don't sign such a binding treaty because they often see themselves as rivals. Pakistan and China on the other hand are a perfect match (imo).
 
Countries like Pak are the central powers by nature. And, their potential will only go up!!! As
such their relationships have to multi-faceted and multi-polars by definition. So, formal military alliances might hinder that centrality....
 
I think we should sign a full mutual defence treaty.

However, that also means that if China enters a war with another country, then Pakistan must declare war on that country as well. So it's pretty tough.

For example when North Korea entered a war in the 1950's, China was forced to directly attack the USA + 16 of her allies combined in the Korean War, pushing them out of North Korea completely. It was one of the most devastating wars of the century.

Historically China has had many powerful enemies, especially the USA and the Soviet Union. It's not something to be taken lightly.
 
I think we should sign a full mutual defence treaty.
That's what I meant by a military alliance.
However, that also means that if China enters a war with another country, then Pakistan must declare war on that country as well. So it's pretty tough.
Indeed that's what it means and it is tough no doubt about it. And as you said it is definitely not something that can be taken lightly. Both have powerful enemies and common ones at that too. But having said that what stops us? We are virtually cooperating everywhere right now - economically, militarily and through civilians. Think about another two countries that are more closer right now than China and Pakistan (except Israel and USA). It makes complete sense to put it on paper and let the world know.

Also this is my first interaction with you as a poster on PDF. Are you actually Chinese? Lots of false flaggers around here so I hope you don't mind me asking.

Countries like Pak are the central powers by nature. And, their potential will only go up!!! As
such their relationships have to multi-faceted and multi-polars by definition. So, formal military alliances might hinder that centrality....
A military alliance would strengthen both countries standing in the world. It would certainly give them greater leverage and would serve as the ultimate deterrent alongside nuclear weapons.
 
Also this is my first interaction with you as a poster on PDF. Are you actually Chinese? Lots of false flaggers around here so I hope you don't mind me asking.

Yes I am, you can ask the Admins here they know me.

Indeed that's what it means and it is tough no doubt about it. And as you said it is definitely not something that can be taken lightly. Both have powerful enemies and common ones at that too. But having said that what stops us? We are virtually cooperating everywhere right now - economically, militarily and through civilians. Think about another two countries that are more closer right now than China and Pakistan (except Israel and USA). It makes complete sense to put it on paper and let the world know.

I like the idea of a full millitary alliance between China and Pakistan, however Pakistan is still nominally a major ally of the United States.

Will Pakistan officially drop the United States as an ally? Will Pakistan declare war on them if China does so?

China takes mutual defence treaties very seriously, as seen in the last Korean War. If we sign it that means we are willing to enter a full scale war to uphold it.
 
However, that also means that if China enters a war with another country, then Pakistan must declare war on that country as well. So it's pretty tough.
If there is agreement then of course Pakistan will enter into the war too but the type of action from Pakistan will depend whether it has a common border or not. Otherwise Pakistan will support China through manpower especially through pilots who can fly from Chinese airbases and Pak army regiments can also fight on Chinese front...for example if China goes to war with Taiwan.
 
If there is agreement then of course Pakistan will enter into the war too but the type of action from Pakistan will depend whether it has a common border or not. Otherwise Pakistan will support China through manpower especially through pilots who can fly from Chinese airbases and Pak army regiments can also fight on Chinese front...for example if China goes to war with Taiwan.

You are right, China won't expect Pakistan to send their Navy or Army to Taiwan if a war breaks out. But the act of declaring war is already quite a serious thing.
 
Yes I am, you can ask the Admins here they know me.
Cool I believe you.
I like the idea of a full millitary alliance between China and Pakistan, however Pakistan is still nominally a major ally of the United States.

Will Pakistan officially drop the United States as an ally? Will Pakistan declare war on them if China does so?

China takes mutual defence treaties very seriously, as seen in the last Korean War.
The US and Pakistan are 'allies' by name only. The only benefits for Pakistan in the whole Major non-NATO ally bs is that we had access to specific western technology. But the Americans have blocked that recently anyway so what does Pakistan as a nation get from this? It is redundant now and both sides know it. In regards to declaring war - that's what it means to be in a military alliance and that's what I am suggesting Pakistan and China do. This would be no joke to anyone. Each side has to be willing to sacrifice for one another.
 
You are right, China won't expect Pakistan to send their Navy or Army to Taiwan if a war breaks out. But the act of declaring war is already quite a serious thing.
We can send but it will be a long way...or we just go through China and fight on Chinese Taiwan border. But if it is another Dokhlam with India, then we both can kick their asses from all sides :lol:
 
Military Alliances are formed between countries with mutual goals and usually between countries of equal strength.
Mutual goals yes, strength maybe not.
How many countries in NATO are equal in strength? Italy wasnt equal in strength to Germany in WW2.
 

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