Disaster for US foreign policy and credibility

[kalu_miah]

It would be a cold day in hell before anyone gives credence to what kalu believes.

And you think any one cares about what you think? Anyway as a rule I do not talk to delusional hatred filled Indians or Iranians. Thanks for both of your time.

 

[kalu_miah]

bhahaha

This is why you're a terrorist. You don't understand that normal people, people that aren't terrorist sympathizers and social outcasts, don't give two farts about tribe, sect or religion. Our lives don't revolve around **** like that. We have other things that occupy our minds.

Sunni and shia arabs can all go blow each other up for all I care, how's that? My problem is with terrorists like you. Little social outcasts who are such losers that in order to have an identity, are forced to clinge onto the idea of religous extremism. Without it you're an empty shell.

Tell me I'm wrong, b/c I don't think I am. Why else would a non-Arab, living in the US, join the ranks of terrorist scum and clinge onto extremism like you do?

You have no clue what I am about, so please give it a rest. If you have anything to add to the topic do it. Thanks.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Yes, we know Iran/Assad is backed by Russia and China for the moment, and Putin scored some points against the coward Obama, but the story of Syria is not over and hopefully at least Assad will no longer have Chemical Weapons to use in this war.

Do you have a problem with China? Who said we are a supporter of the Syrian regime?

China is like many other nations who are against more blood in Syria, but we never specifically support the current Syrian regime, not financially nor militarily.

 

[kalu_miah]

Do you have a problem with China? Who said we are a supporter of the Syrian regime?

China is like many other nations who are against more blood in Syria, but we never specifically support the current Syrian regime, not financially nor militarily.

I personally have no problem with China, but I have a problem with China's Syria policy. According to this article China is providing material support to Assad regime. In war everyone takes sides, it seems China has chosen Assad side, despite trying to explain Chinese veto hiding behind principle of non-intervention. In this article Syrian Deputy Prime Minister, Qadri Jamil, exposes the true nature of China's Syria policy:

Iran, Russia, China prop up Syria economy, Damascus' Qadri Jamil says - UPI.com

Iran, Russia, China prop up Syria economy, official says

Published: June 28, 2013 at 2:30 AM

DAMASCUS, Syria, June 28 (UPI) -- Iran, Russia and China are helping Syria lessen the sting of Western sanctions with $500 million a month in oil and vast credit lines, a Syrian official said.

"It's not that bad to have behind you the Russians, the Chinese and Iranians," Qadri Jamil, Syria's deputy prime minister for economic affairs, told The Financial Times.

"Those three countries are helping us politically, militarily -- and also economically."

Russia and Iran have publicly acknowledged their support for the regime of President Bashar Assad, but China has been less open.

Beijing had no immediate comment on the article.

Ships "under the flag of the Russians" deliver oil and related products to Syria, Jamil said without giving details.

"We are waiting for someone to attack them," he said.

Syria's coasts are still regime-controlled.

Other support from the three countries includes an "unlimited" credit line with Iran for food and oil-product imports, Jamil said.

Syrian Central Bank Governor Adeeb Mayaleh told Syrian state-owned newspaper Tishreen May 27 the credit line from Iran to finance imports and oil and gas purchases was up to $4 billion.

Tehran is itself the subject of damaging Western sanctions, imposed to pressure Iran into ending its suspect nuclear program.

Syria has also set up barter deals with Baghdad, Mayaleh told Tishreen.

Iraq is also supplying Syria with oil and gas needs, a senior Syrian petroleum ministry official told The Wall Street Journal.

Jamil acknowledged to the Times Syria's war-ravaged, sanctions-debilitated economic situation was "complicated and very difficult."

Since the outbreak of the Syrian civil war in March 2011, the economic sanctions have restricted trade with the United States, the European Union, 12 non-EU European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan.

The sanctions and the instability brought on by the war have crumbled Syria's economy, collapsing its main money-earning industries of oil and tourism, economists say.

The country's gross domestic product, which the World Bank estimated stood at almost $60 billion in 2010, shrank nearly 45 percent through 2012, economists and some Syrian regime officials estimate.

Since the war started, the Syrian pound has lost 70 percent of its value against the U.S. dollar.

The World Bank estimates inflation topped 50 percent last year, while independent Syrian newspaper Baladna estimated most goods have gone up an average 240 percent since March 2011.

Minimum monthly wages, meanwhile, have largely stayed the same, ranging from the equivalent of $200 to $300 depending on the exchange rate.

Despite the hardships, Damascus is getting around the sanctions somewhat by trading in Russian rubles, Iranian rials and Chinese renminbi, Jamil told the Times.

He said it was a "mistake" for Syria to have traded in Western currencies previously.

"Now we have a straight line between the Syrian pound and those three currencies, and we have got out of the circle of euros and dollars," he said.

Jamil said when a political resolution to the war is achieved, the Assad regime would seek compensation from the world powers that opposed it, just as Germany was required to give reparations to the Allied governments after World War II.

"If England feels like paying something, we don't mind," he said.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I personally have no problem with China, but I have a problem with China's Syria policy. According to this article China is providing material support to Assad regime. In war everyone takes sides, it seems China has chosen Assad side, despite trying to explain Chinese veto hiding behind principle of non-intervention. In this article Syrian Deputy Prime Minister, Qadri Jamil, exposes the true nature of China's Syria policy:

Iran, Russia, China prop up Syria economy, Damascus' Qadri Jamil says - UPI.com

Iran, Russia, China prop up Syria economy, official says

Published: June 28, 2013 at 2:30 AM

DAMASCUS, Syria, June 28 (UPI) -- Iran, Russia and China are helping Syria lessen the sting of Western sanctions with $500 million a month in oil and vast credit lines, a Syrian official said.

"It's not that bad to have behind you the Russians, the Chinese and Iranians," Qadri Jamil, Syria's deputy prime minister for economic affairs, told The Financial Times.

"Those three countries are helping us politically, militarily -- and also economically."

Russia and Iran have publicly acknowledged their support for the regime of President Bashar Assad, but China has been less open.

Beijing had no immediate comment on the article.

Ships "under the flag of the Russians" deliver oil and related products to Syria, Jamil said without giving details.

"We are waiting for someone to attack them," he said.

Syria's coasts are still regime-controlled.

Other support from the three countries includes an "unlimited" credit line with Iran for food and oil-product imports, Jamil said.

Syrian Central Bank Governor Adeeb Mayaleh told Syrian state-owned newspaper Tishreen May 27 the credit line from Iran to finance imports and oil and gas purchases was up to $4 billion.

Tehran is itself the subject of damaging Western sanctions, imposed to pressure Iran into ending its suspect nuclear program.

Syria has also set up barter deals with Baghdad, Mayaleh told Tishreen.

Iraq is also supplying Syria with oil and gas needs, a senior Syrian petroleum ministry official told The Wall Street Journal.

Jamil acknowledged to the Times Syria's war-ravaged, sanctions-debilitated economic situation was "complicated and very difficult."

Since the outbreak of the Syrian civil war in March 2011, the economic sanctions have restricted trade with the United States, the European Union, 12 non-EU European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan.

The sanctions and the instability brought on by the war have crumbled Syria's economy, collapsing its main money-earning industries of oil and tourism, economists say.

The country's gross domestic product, which the World Bank estimated stood at almost $60 billion in 2010, shrank nearly 45 percent through 2012, economists and some Syrian regime officials estimate.

Since the war started, the Syrian pound has lost 70 percent of its value against the U.S. dollar.

The World Bank estimates inflation topped 50 percent last year, while independent Syrian newspaper Baladna estimated most goods have gone up an average 240 percent since March 2011.

Minimum monthly wages, meanwhile, have largely stayed the same, ranging from the equivalent of $200 to $300 depending on the exchange rate.

Despite the hardships, Damascus is getting around the sanctions somewhat by trading in Russian rubles, Iranian rials and Chinese renminbi, Jamil told the Times.

He said it was a "mistake" for Syria to have traded in Western currencies previously.

"Now we have a straight line between the Syrian pound and those three currencies, and we have got out of the circle of euros and dollars," he said.

Jamil said when a political resolution to the war is achieved, the Assad regime would seek compensation from the world powers that opposed it, just as Germany was required to give reparations to the Allied governments after World War II.

"If England feels like paying something, we don't mind," he said.

You are wrong, China didn't veto Syria for Russia. The no-fly-zone would cause the casualty of more innocent people, this is against China's principle.

Even China did not veto for it, the veto power of Russia alone could also stop the no-fly-zone.

Meanwhile, anything about China's supply for the Assad regime is all purely speculation. Assad uses the Russian weapons, Russia also openly sent their airplanes to Syria to provide further supply.

Syria is not Pakistan, it is not our boundary that we should be concerned about it.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Why it is so hard for you guys to understand that China is neutral on Syria? Nor we have financially supported the Alawi regime.

Syrian opposition delegation in China to discuss crisis CCTV News - CNTV English

 

[kalu_miah]

You are wrong, China didn't veto Syria for Russia. The no-fly-zone would cause the casualty of more innocent people, this is against China's principle.

Even China did not veto for it, the veto power of Russia alone could also stop the no-fly-zone.

Meanwhile, anything about China's supply for the Assad regime is all purely speculation. Assad uses the Russian weapons, Russia also openly sent their airplanes to Syria to provide further supply.

Syria is not Pakistan, it is not our boundary that we should be concerned about it.

So essentially you are saying that Qadri Jamil, Syria's Deputy Prime Minister is lying, not sure why he would do that, but its possible. In any case, I am entitled to my opinion and I do not think China is neutral in this conflict. If China was truly neutral it would abstain from the UN votes, instead of using veto. Using nonintervention principle to justify the veto is a lame excuse.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

So essentially you are saying that Qadri Jamil, Syria's Deputy Prime Minister is lying, not sure why he would do that, but its possible. In any case, I am entitled to my opinion and I do not think China is neutral in this conflict. If China was truly neutral it would abstain from the UN votes, instead of using veto. Using nonintervention principle to justify the veto is a lame excuse.

Think about it, Iran sent their ground troops to Syria, while Russia sent their warships to the Syrian coast.

What has China done so far? We only dock our LPD in Jeddah.

Syria is not within our boundary, China doesn't have the wish to get involved into the complex geopolitics in the Middle East.

China also has the deal of selling the new ballistic missiles to KSA, do you think that we would neglect our relationship with KSA?

 

[acid rain]

How does the FSA, Al Nusra, AQ etc get their hands on Chinese weapons?..most guns used by these terrorists are Chinese made (based on the videos).

 

[Abii]

@ChineseTiger1986

That fly you're talking to, he's a wahabi terrorist. You're literally talking to one of these:

Just insult him and crush his tiny ego by reminding him that's he's a virgin little terrorist sympathizing nobody

 

[kalu_miah]

Think about it, Iran sent their ground troops to Syria, while Russia sent their warships to the Syrian coast.

What has China done so far? We only dock our LPD in Jeddah.

Syria is not within our boundary, China doesn't have the wish to get involved into the complex geopolitics in the Middle East.

China also has the deal of selling the new ballistic missiles to KSA, do you think that we would neglect our relationship with KSA?

China did not have to help the rebels like KSA and Turkey, but at least it could use its influence to persuade Russia and Iran to give up on Assad, because even if Russia and Iran can be fools, China is no fool. Definitely China knows that Assad is not going to last. I think that would have been a more responsible thing to do, instead of going along with Russia and use veto.

What seems to have happened and happening is that Chinese are trying to keep both sides happy, the Russians and Iranians on one side and the Saudi's the other side. Its a delicate balancing game. Saudi's seem to be happy with your explanation, that China is standing with Russian and Iranian ally. I guess Saudi's consider a good relation with China very important for their future, it is a big oil customer and a rising super power.

Why Assad is history? Assad simply cannot control 75% Sunni population without giving political representation to them. Also he does not have unlimited resources like Arab Monarchs and he does not have legitimacy like the Arab Monarchs, who have deep roots in their community. Assad is from 10-12% despised Alawite minorty who used to be called Nusayri's.

Despite all Russian and Iranian efforts (lets say China is not in on this), they will fail, because my feeling is that Turkey and KSA are not going to give up. If Chinese strategists could foresee how this will turn out, they should have put more pressure on Russia and Iran, I think it did not take place.

One thing I think it is difficult for Chinese to understand is that it is not just the US (and its proxy Israel) interest, there is Arab interest here to integrate and consolidate the region, under greater GCC and Arab League. Iran has no or limited role to play in this, Iran is an outsider at least in Syria. Saddam's removal was a boon to Iran, but even a US allied Iraq, even if its Shia, it may still remain closer with Arab League nations than Iran. Shia Sunni sectarianism has its role, but its not the only factor, there are other factors involved that determines the geo-strategic alignment of a nation like Iraq - history, language and ethnic origin and then there is the issue of staying within the Western orbit, which is true for most Arab and Muslim nations. Iraq, even to help Iran, may stay within this orbit, just so it does not become an isolated Pariah state like Iran.

World is increasingly becoming more than the power play between "super powers" or great powers like USA, EU, Russia and China - local interest in some cases will supersede these great power interests. The sooner the great powers realize this, the better it will for them in the long run.

 

[kalu_miah]

@ChineseTiger1986

That fly you're talking to, he's a wahabi terrorist. You're literally talking to one of these:

Just insult him and crush his tiny ego by reminding him that's he's a virgin little terrorist sympathizing nobody

@ChineseTiger1986 These are the kind of Iranian morons your "principle of nonintervention" has encouraged and emboldened, just take a look at the nonsense words he is spouting.

 

[Mitro]

The 1973 War Powers Resolution allows presidents to deploy troops when there's a "national emergency" caused by an attack on the country or its possessions, but then gives the executive only 60 days to get congressional approval or withdraw troops. Presidents in the past have become engaged in conflicts without first checking with Congress and have stretched the definition of "national emergency."

He can Attack without Approval

Just answer one question.
Does a US president need approval from Congress to launch an attack?
Red line crossed,why not attack?

 

[Mitro]

China is just playing Safe .china has nothing to loose in syria .
China is letting the world know by vetoing any draft by US and its Ally his position i.e no external intervention.
China also realise where all these is going and don't what to repeat the Libya mistake in which china company lost lots of money.

Think about it, Iran sent their ground troops to Syria, while Russia sent their warships to the Syrian coast.

What has China done so far? We only dock our LPD in Jeddah.

Syria is not within our boundary, China doesn't have the wish to get involved into the complex geopolitics in the Middle East.

China also has the deal of selling the new ballistic missiles to KSA, do you think that we would neglect our relationship with KSA?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

@ChineseTiger1986

That fly you're talking to, he's a wahabi terrorist. You're literally talking to one of these:

Just insult him and crush his tiny ego by reminding him that's he's a virgin little terrorist sympathizing nobody

China has no interest to participate into the Sunni-Shia rivalry, but she maintains her principle of against the intervention of any country with sovereignty.

China did not have to help the rebels like KSA and Turkey, but at least it could use its influence to persuade Russia and Iran to give up on Assad, because even if Russia and Iran can be fools, China is no fool. Definitely China knows that Assad is not going to last. I think that would have been a more responsible thing to do, instead of going along with Russia and use veto.

What seems to have happened and happening is that Chinese are trying to keep both sides happy, the Russians and Iranians on one side and the Saudi's the other side. Its a delicate balancing game. Saudi's seem to be happy with your explanation, that China is standing with Russian and Iranian ally. I guess Saudi's consider a good relation with China very important for their future, it is a big oil customer and a rising super power.

Why Assad is history? Assad simply cannot control 75% Sunni population without giving political representation to them. Also he does not have unlimited resources like Arab Monarchs and he does not have legitimacy like the Arab Monarchs, who have deep roots in their community. Assad is from 10-12% despised Alawite minorty who used to be called Nusayri's.

Despite all Russian and Iranian efforts (lets say China is not in on this), they will fail, because my feeling is that Turkey and KSA are not going to give up. If Chinese strategists could foresee how this will turn out, they should have put more pressure on Russia and Iran, I think it did not take place.

One thing I think it is difficult for Chinese to understand is that it is not just the US (and its proxy Israel) interest, there is Arab interest here to integrate and consolidate the region, under greater GCC and Arab League. Iran has no or limited role to play in this, Iran is an outsider at least in Syria. Saddam's removal was a boon to Iran, but even a US allied Iraq, even if its Shia, it may still remain closer with Arab League nations than Iran. Shia Sunni sectarianism has its role, but its not the only factor, there are other factors involved that determines the geo-strategic alignment of a nation like Iraq - history, language and ethnic origin and then there is the issue of staying within the Western orbit, which is true for most Arab and Muslim nations. Iraq, even to help Iran, may stay within this orbit, just so it does not become an isolated Pariah state like Iran.

World is increasingly becoming more than the power play between "super powers" or great powers like USA, EU, Russia and China - local interest in some cases will supersede these great power interests. The sooner the great powers realize this, the better it will for them in the long run.

Look, Russia and Iran are not our client states, they all have their own independent foreign policy, China has no power to persuade anyone.