‘Disappeared’ still haunt Balochistan: HRW

[Perceptron]

Indeed, it was a sad incident but he wasn't unarmed as you stated. He was armed with a pistol and had previously robbed a family of their valuables. At least get your facts right.

Source please for the bolded part.

 

[Icarus]

come on..everyone know that how Sikhs have mixed very well with Hindu population of the country and there is nothing like Military action in Punjab ..

Exactly, so is the case with the Balochs. Look up Balochs in the Army, the Govt, Media, Entertainment. They are also pretty well-integrated.

just only a few nutcases having negligible support but look at the case of Balochistan..they have their own army, almost entire Baloch support them and they are at a brink of getting their independence..and rightly so, the way they are being killed by pakstani army, they definitely need to have their own country like Bangladeshi got in 1971

1) They don't have their own Army, only a militant org called so with about 500-700 insurgents and if that is called an Army, then Jarnail Singh had a larger Army before the Sikh Insurgency was put down BY FORCE.
2) Actually most Baloch hate them as many casualties from their attacks are ethnic Balochs themselves.
3) They are no where near getting their independence. Infact militant activity is at lowest in past 5 years. You are truly ill-informed.
4) Bangladesh was different. It shared a border with India, so you could actively support and train them. Won't happen this time.

And what legitimacy does India have to talk of Human rights ? You have been forcefully keeping Kashmir as a part of your federation for 60+ years inspite of a UN resolution calling for a referendum allowing the Kashmiris the right to decide who they wish to join. You kill 4000 muslims in Gujrat and the culprits never get caught. Human rights ? What do you know of the word ?

 

[Chow chow]

BALOCHISTAN : A perfect Slaughterhouse of Pakistan’s military butchers

The Baloch land once was a free and sovereign country, on August 11,1947,the British acceded control of Balochistan to the ruler of Balochistan, Mir Ahmad Yar Khan - the Khan of Kalat. The Khan immediately declared the independence of Balochistan, and Mohammad Ali Jinnah signed the proclamation of Balochistan’s sovereignty under the Khan.

The New York Times reported on August 12, 1947: “Under the agreement, Pakistan recognizes Kalat as an independent sovereign state with a status different from that of the Indian States. An announcement from New Delhi said that Kalat, Moslem State in Baluchistan, has reached an agreement with Pakistan for free flow of communications and commerce, and would negotiate for decisions on defense, external affairs and communications.” The next day, the NY Times even printed a map of the world showing Balochistan as a fully independent country.

On August 15, 1947 the Khan of Kalat addressed a large gathering in Kalat and formally declared the full independence of Balochistan, and proclaimed the 15th day of August a day of celebration. The Khan formed the lower and upper house of Kalat Assembly, and during the first meeting of the Lower House in early September 1947, the Assembly confirmed the independence of Balochistan. Jinnah tried to persuade the Khan to join Pakistan, but the Khan and both Houses of the Kalat Assembly refused. The Pakistani army then invaded Balochistan on March 27th, 1948, and imprisoned all members of the Kalat Assembly. India stood by silently. Lord Mountbatten, Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru or Maulana Azad, then the president of India’s Congress Party said nothing about the illegal occupation of Balochistan.Since the illegal occupation of Baloch land,Pakistan’s military is continuously trying to silent the voices of Balochistan’s freedom by the force of guns,tanks,fighter jets in all the other possible brutal ways.Nawab Babu Nauroz Khan waged an arm struggle along with thousands of Baloch tribesman for the liberation of Balochistan.But on May 15,1959 the Pakistani wicked rulers betrayed the Babu Nauroz through an oath on the holy Quran that Pakistan will settle all the Baloch grievances.However,when Nawab Nowroz Khan came down from the hills, he and about 150 of his followers, including his sons and nephews, were arrested for armed rebellion against the state. On July 15, 1960 five of the leaders were executed by hanging in Hyderabad Jail.Nawab Nauroz Khan was spared execution on account of his age, but died in Jail in 1964.

The co-operation of Shah-e-Iran Raza Shah Pahlavi with Z.A Bhutto to crush the Baloch Uprising in 1973-77, when the Shah of Iran provided Pakistan with cobra helicopters, Iranian pilots and $700 million dollar in cash.In this deadly operation an estimately 15,000-25,000 Baloch tribesmen were killed,livestocks,fields,houses were destroyed by the joint aggression of Pakistan and Iran,and thousands took refuge to Aghanistan.

The Pakistani state has been using regular troops and paramilitary forces against Baloch civilians.The region has been highly militarized, as Pakistani occupiers established one paramilitary post for every 500 people.There are four mega military cantonments, 52 paramilitary cantonments, five naval bases including Jinnah naval base in Ormara district Gwadar and six missile-testing ranges in Balochistan.

On 17th March 2005, Pakistan's Paramilitary Forces,Started Shelling the town of Dera Bugti,more than 60 Civilians were killed in this indiscriminate Bombardment, among them 33 Hindus killed and 19 were children.

On 17 December 2005, paramilitary forces began aerial bombardment at Kohlu.By mid-June 2006, about 400 to 500 innocent Baloch people were killed in the army operations including in air raids in Balochistan, especially in Marri and Bugti areas.About 80 to 85% of those either killed or injured were women and children.The fighting caused widespread damage to buildings, and 85 percent people of Dera Bugti were forced to flee the town.The Pakistani Air Force chief Tanwir Mahmood Ahmed stated that the air force would continue to be used whenever and wherever the government desired.

According to the Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) that Pakistani soldiers arrested four people on April 5 2008, in the Dera Bugti district of Balochistan, and subjected them to torture.They were asked to identify local supporters of the Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA). After failing to get any names from them, the victims were immersed in scolding hot coal tar. Three of the men were literally boiled and burned to death. A fourth died later from his injuries.Villagers in the area also claim the Pakistan army used a form of chemical gas against them and that some of the gassed survivors were later shot.

So far,according to one estimate about 8000 people, including men, women and children, have been abducted by Pakistani security forces from various parts of Balochistan.Pakistan has used all brutal ways to stop the Baloch freedom movement but Baloch nation is courageously facing all the brutalities of occupying state but not withdrawing from the national cause of independence.Pakistan now using her last method to suppress the struggle like did in Bangladesh by the ‘’Al-Shams’’ &’’Al-Badar’’ now these death squads are re-introduced in Balochistan by new names in order to hide her crimes.Pakistani military intelligence agencies ISI,MI,IB and Frontier Core are abducting the Baloch students,political workers,human right activists,journalists from every corner of Balochistan,like from colleges,houses,hospitals,highways.Pakistan military has kept all abducted persons in secret torture cells,and every week killing 8-10 of the Baloch youths and throwing their brutally tortured bullet riddled bodies in deserts and mountains,most of the deadbodies are not recogniseable as flesh been eaten by wild animals.The “custodial killings toll” has crossed the figure of “130” in a time span of only 10 months and exactly same numbers of Baloch youths has been abducted again.

Pakistan military fighter jets and gunship helicopters still bombing,shelling the Dera Bugti,Kohlu,Mashkay,Mand town of Balochistan but unfortunately still a ‘’flyzone’’ for Pakistan Airforce, as lives of Baloch are not worthful like the Libyans.It’s the morale duty of all those champions of human rights who are crying for the human lives in Somalia,Egypt, Libya must play their role to save Baloch nation from the Pakistan military butchers.Infact Pakistan is an ally of US in ‘’War Against Terrorism’’ but we Baloch need world support in ‘’War Against Pakistani State Terrorism in Balochistan’’.

Sri Lanka Guardian: BALOCHISTAN : A perfect Slaughterhouse of Pakistan’s military butchers

 

[Icarus]

Source please for the bolded part.

Refer to the subtitled video of the entire episode showed on Mubashir Luqman's show on Dunya Tv.

 

[Icarus]

BALOCHISTAN : A perfect Slaughterhouse of Pakistan’s military butchers

The Baloch land once was a free and sovereign country, on August 11,1947,the British acceded control of Balochistan to the ruler of Balochistan, Mir Ahmad Yar Khan - the Khan of Kalat. The Khan immediately declared the independence of Balochistan, and Mohammad Ali Jinnah signed the proclamation of Balochistan’s sovereignty under the Khan.

The New York Times reported on August 12, 1947: “Under the agreement, Pakistan recognizes Kalat as an independent sovereign state with a status different from that of the Indian States. An announcement from New Delhi said that Kalat, Moslem State in Baluchistan, has reached an agreement with Pakistan for free flow of communications and commerce, and would negotiate for decisions on defense, external affairs and communications.” The next day, the NY Times even printed a map of the world showing Balochistan as a fully independent country.

On August 15, 1947 the Khan of Kalat addressed a large gathering in Kalat and formally declared the full independence of Balochistan, and proclaimed the 15th day of August a day of celebration. The Khan formed the lower and upper house of Kalat Assembly, and during the first meeting of the Lower House in early September 1947, the Assembly confirmed the independence of Balochistan. Jinnah tried to persuade the Khan to join Pakistan, but the Khan and both Houses of the Kalat Assembly refused. The Pakistani army then invaded Balochistan on March 27th, 1948, and imprisoned all members of the Kalat Assembly. India stood by silently. Lord Mountbatten, Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru or Maulana Azad, then the president of India’s Congress Party said nothing about the illegal occupation of Balochistan.Since the illegal occupation of Baloch land,Pakistan’s military is continuously trying to silent the voices of Balochistan’s freedom by the force of guns,tanks,fighter jets in all the other possible brutal ways.Nawab Babu Nauroz Khan waged an arm struggle along with thousands of Baloch tribesman for the liberation of Balochistan.But on May 15,1959 the Pakistani wicked rulers betrayed the Babu Nauroz through an oath on the holy Quran that Pakistan will settle all the Baloch grievances.However,when Nawab Nowroz Khan came down from the hills, he and about 150 of his followers, including his sons and nephews, were arrested for armed rebellion against the state. On July 15, 1960 five of the leaders were executed by hanging in Hyderabad Jail.Nawab Nauroz Khan was spared execution on account of his age, but died in Jail in 1964.

The co-operation of Shah-e-Iran Raza Shah Pahlavi with Z.A Bhutto to crush the Baloch Uprising in 1973-77, when the Shah of Iran provided Pakistan with cobra helicopters, Iranian pilots and $700 million dollar in cash.In this deadly operation an estimately 15,000-25,000 Baloch tribesmen were killed,livestocks,fields,houses were destroyed by the joint aggression of Pakistan and Iran,and thousands took refuge to Aghanistan.

The Pakistani state has been using regular troops and paramilitary forces against Baloch civilians.The region has been highly militarized, as Pakistani occupiers established one paramilitary post for every 500 people.There are four mega military cantonments, 52 paramilitary cantonments, five naval bases including Jinnah naval base in Ormara district Gwadar and six missile-testing ranges in Balochistan.

On 17th March 2005, Pakistan's Paramilitary Forces,Started Shelling the town of Dera Bugti,more than 60 Civilians were killed in this indiscriminate Bombardment, among them 33 Hindus killed and 19 were children.

On 17 December 2005, paramilitary forces began aerial bombardment at Kohlu.By mid-June 2006, about 400 to 500 innocent Baloch people were killed in the army operations including in air raids in Balochistan, especially in Marri and Bugti areas.About 80 to 85% of those either killed or injured were women and children.The fighting caused widespread damage to buildings, and 85 percent people of Dera Bugti were forced to flee the town.The Pakistani Air Force chief Tanwir Mahmood Ahmed stated that the air force would continue to be used whenever and wherever the government desired.

According to the Asian Human Rights Commission (AHRC) that Pakistani soldiers arrested four people on April 5 2008, in the Dera Bugti district of Balochistan, and subjected them to torture.They were asked to identify local supporters of the Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA). After failing to get any names from them, the victims were immersed in scolding hot coal tar. Three of the men were literally boiled and burned to death. A fourth died later from his injuries.Villagers in the area also claim the Pakistan army used a form of chemical gas against them and that some of the gassed survivors were later shot.

So far,according to one estimate about 8000 people, including men, women and children, have been abducted by Pakistani security forces from various parts of Balochistan.Pakistan has used all brutal ways to stop the Baloch freedom movement but Baloch nation is courageously facing all the brutalities of occupying state but not withdrawing from the national cause of independence.Pakistan now using her last method to suppress the struggle like did in Bangladesh by the ‘’Al-Shams’’ &’’Al-Badar’’ now these death squads are re-introduced in Balochistan by new names in order to hide her crimes.Pakistani military intelligence agencies ISI,MI,IB and Frontier Core are abducting the Baloch students,political workers,human right activists,journalists from every corner of Balochistan,like from colleges,houses,hospitals,highways.Pakistan military has kept all abducted persons in secret torture cells,and every week killing 8-10 of the Baloch youths and throwing their brutally tortured bullet riddled bodies in deserts and mountains,most of the deadbodies are not recogniseable as flesh been eaten by wild animals.The “custodial killings toll” has crossed the figure of “130” in a time span of only 10 months and exactly same numbers of Baloch youths has been abducted again.

Pakistan military fighter jets and gunship helicopters still bombing,shelling the Dera Bugti,Kohlu,Mashkay,Mand town of Balochistan but unfortunately still a ‘’flyzone’’ for Pakistan Airforce, as lives of Baloch are not worthful like the Libyans.It’s the morale duty of all those champions of human rights who are crying for the human lives in Somalia,Egypt, Libya must play their role to save Baloch nation from the Pakistan military butchers.Infact Pakistan is an ally of US in ‘’War Against Terrorism’’ but we Baloch need world support in ‘’War Against Pakistani State Terrorism in Balochistan’’.

Sri Lanka Guardian: BALOCHISTAN : A perfect Slaughterhouse of Pakistan’s military butchers

If you quit posting articles and actually posted something in reference to the discussion, maybe we would be getting somewhere.
Oh, and BTW, Balochistan was not acceded as an entirely independent nation under the Khan of Kalat. Infact only 23% of Balochistan's land area was under the Khan of Kalat. His brother tried to incite rebellion which was put down by the Khan of Kalat himself who chose to then accede to Pakistan. Unlike Hyderabad, Junnagadh and Kashmir, need I say more ?

 

[Icarus]

Buddy, you guys have very chequered history, you may try and dissociate from it, but you can't change it.

 

[Chow chow]

Exactly, so is the case with the Balochs. Look up Balochs in the Army, the Govt, Media, Entertainment. They are also pretty well-integrated.

Realy?? ..Baloch Human right council don't think so..some points by them

· In last six months, Pakistani agencies have thrown more than 200 mutilated bodies of Baloch political activists, writers. journalists, academics, intellectuals and human rights activists
· In July alone, until 23 July, 22 mutilated bodies of Baloch people have been found
· A brutal army operation is continuing in Balochistan since 2004
· Baloch & Sindhi leaders have been target killed, arrested and humiliated since then
· Eight thousand Balochs and scores of Sindhi people are missing
· Pakistan is not listening to international human rights organisations, human rights and civil society organisations in Pakistan and Pakistan’s own supreme court to stop the killing of Baloch people
· Only international community’s effective intervention could save the Baloch people from one of the worst massacre in their history

1) They don't have their own Army, only a militant org called so with about 500-700 insurgents and if that is called an Army, then Jarnail Singh had a larger Army before the Sikh Insurgency was put down BY FORCE.
2) Actually most Baloch hate them as many casualties from their attacks are ethnic Balochs themselves.
3) They are no where near getting their independence. Infact militant activity is at lowest in past 5 years. You are truly ill-informed.
4) Bangladesh was different. It shared a border with India, so you could actively support and train them. Won't happen this time.

And what legitimacy does India have to talk of Human rights ? You have been forcefully keeping Kashmir as a part of your federation for 60+ years inspite of a UN resolution calling for a referendum allowing the Kashmiris the right to decide who they wish to join. You kill 4000 muslims in Gujrat and the culprits never get caught. Human rights ? What do you know of the word ?

The Muslims killed in Gujrat is the only thing you can cry about. right?? we deeply condemn that act and since then we have not allowed any such massacre..but look at your own country whera even in a city like Karachi , Non-Urdu speakers are killing Urdu speakers leave alone backward areas like balochistan and wazirristan

 

[Perceptron]

Refer to the subtitled video of the entire episode showed on Mubashir Luqman's show on Dunya Tv.

But there are tons and tons of sources including DAWN, Express Tribune to name a few which quote otherwise. Does Dunya TV know something that DAWN does not ?

 

[Perceptron]

Buddy, you guys have very chequered history, you may try and dissociate from it, but you can't change it.

You are moving away from the topic of discussion ; It does not behove a Senior Professional like you to be trolled away by someone. You have to confess that some Balochis are grossly mistreated, and were this to continue you guys have another "Bangladesh" coming along there. My tone here is not deprecatory here, but entirely empathic to the situation out there.

 

[Icarus]

Realy?? ..Baloch Human right council don't think so..some points by them

· In last six months, Pakistani agencies have thrown more than 200 mutilated bodies of Baloch political activists, writers. journalists, academics, intellectuals and human rights activists
· In July alone, until 23 July, 22 mutilated bodies of Baloch people have been found
· A brutal army operation is continuing in Balochistan since 2004
· Baloch & Sindhi leaders have been target killed, arrested and humiliated since then
· Eight thousand Balochs and scores of Sindhi people are missing
· Pakistan is not listening to international human rights organisations, human rights and civil society organisations in Pakistan and Pakistan’s own supreme court to stop the killing of Baloch people
· Only international community’s effective intervention could save the Baloch people from one of the worst massacre in their history

Source ? And did the Pakistani security forces leave a calling card with these corpses, with the confidence that you attribute it to them. I would think so !

The Muslims killed in Gujrat is the only thing you can cry about. right?? we deeply condemn that act and since then we have not allowed any such massacre..but look at your own country whera even in a city like Karachi , Non-Urdu speakers are killing Urdu speakers leave alone backward areas like balochistan and wazirristan

Condemning is all you can do ? That won't cut and neither will it bring the 4000 odd people back. And that is not the only thing we can cry about.
We can cry about the Killings and rapes of innocent kashmiris.
We can cry about the Killings of Christians in Orissa.
We can cry about the massacre of Sikhs during the Sikh Insurgency.
We can cry about the destruction of Babri mosque.
We can cry about the activities of hardliner Hindu organizations which resort to arson and killing against innocent minorities.
We can cry about the Samjhota express killings.
And yet there is so much more to cry about !

The situation in Karachi is only natural, we are a nation in a state of War, but what's your excuse for the actions of Indian Army/Para-Military in Kashmir and other areas ?
Waziristan is hardly a backward area, it has it's own Cadet Colleges(2), A dam and an extensive irrigation system. It's more well developed that much of India !

 

[Icarus]

But there are tons and tons of sources including DAWN, Express Tribune to name a few which quote otherwise. Does Dunya TV know something that DAWN does not ?

Everybody knows this, I just saw it on Dunya which is why quoted it. If you find a subtitled video from by Dawn, then by all means......you may watch that.

 

[Perceptron]

Condemning is all you can do ? That won't cut and neither will it bring the 4000 odd people back. And that is not the only thing we can cry about.
We can cry about the Killings and rapes of innocent kashmiris.
We can cry about the Killings of Christians in Orissa.
We can cry about the massacre of Sikhs during the Sikh Insurgency.
We can cry about the destruction of Babri mosque.
We can cry about the activities of hardliner Hindu organizations which resort to arson and killing against innocent minorities.
We can cry about the Samjhota express killings.
And yet there is so much more to cry about !

The situation in Karachi is only natural, we are a nation in a state of War, but what's your excuse for the actions of Indian Army/Para-Military in Kashmir and other areas ?
Waziristan is hardly a backward area, it has it's own Cadet Colleges(2), A dam and an extensive irrigation system. It's more well developed that much of India !

The mass Genocide the Pakistani army carried out in Bangladesh, will account for all massacres in Gujarat, Kashmir, the Sikhs and the Samjhota bombings put together, and will still leave room for a couple of more Kashmirs. Please, let us stop this flip-flopping and get back on topic : Balochistan.

 

[Icarus]

You are moving away from the topic of discussion ; It does not behove a Senior Professional like you to be trolled away by someone. You have to confess that some Balochis are grossly mistreated, and were this to continue you guys have another "Bangladesh" coming along there. My tone here is not deprecatory here, but entirely empathic to the situation out there.

I agree, Balochistan has been neglected in the past. But steps are being taken to bring the Balochistan back into the mainstream. It was hard to maintain a civil discussion along the line that Chow Chow was taking this argument. Insurgency never broke countries,
LTTE in Srilanka is an example.
IRA in Northern Ireland.
Southern States in USA.
Punjab and Tamil Nadu in India.
These are just some examples, Insurgencies need to be quelled swiftly, which in some cases leads to excesses from both sides which may be regretted later.
Security in this region demands that these insurgencies be dealt with in proper fashion. Should Balochistan break away as many Indians would hope, it would trigger a chain reaction which will add a catalyst to the insurgencies from the Caucasus to Xinjaing and India itself may have to let go of lands constituting much greater area than Balochistan.

 

[Icarus]

The mass Genocide the Pakistani army carried out in Bangladesh, will account for all massacres in Gujarat, Kashmir, the Sikhs and the Samjhota bombings put together, and will still leave room for a couple of more Kashmirs. Please, let us stop this flip-flopping and get back on topic : Balochistan.

A massacre which has never been proven ? No physical evidence found, no skeletons, no mass graves, no numbers, no reports ?
Even the head count fluctuates from 30,000 to 3 million.
Truth is that many of these "Massacre" victims were Non-Bengalis who were left behind to face the wrath of the Mukti-Bahini and other Armed Bengali groups. Entire villages of Biharis were wiped out, as I'm sure you would know. The entire episode(Bangladesh Independence) was fuelled by India and your relations with them are hardly enviable. So in this episode India lost, twice, you sacrificed good relations with Pakistan and now you have problems with Bangladesh as well.
I'm not the one trying to flip-flop here, I am trying to bring this argument to ground realities, however Chow Chow keeps bringing in some weird type of posts that distract me from the discussion at hand.

 

[Chow chow]

Source ? And did the Pakistani security forces leave a calling card with these corpses, with the confidence that you attribute it to them. I would think so !




Condemning is all you can do ? That won't cut and neither will it bring the 4000 odd people back. And that is not the only thing we can cry about.
We can cry about the Killings and rapes of innocent kashmiris.
We can cry about the Killings of Christians in Orissa.
We can cry about the massacre of Sikhs during the Sikh Insurgency.
We can cry about the destruction of Babri mosque.
We can cry about the activities of hardliner Hindu organizations which resort to arson and killing against innocent minorities.
We can cry about the Samjhota express killings.
And yet there is so much more to cry about !

The situation in Karachi is only natural, we are a nation in a state of War, but what's your excuse for the actions of Indian Army/Para-Military in Kashmir and other areas ?
Waziristan is hardly a backward area, it has it's own Cadet Colleges(2), A dam and an extensive irrigation system. It's more well developed that much of India !

whatever you mentioned is Normal and happens in every country..and they cannot be considered as massacre..excluding Samjhota killing

if you have observed behaviour of defferent countries towards Minorities and especially Muslims you will understand how much tolerant India is

karachi , where only in 4 days 100+ were killed witnessed masacre

Balochistan where daily a son and father are martyred and waziristan where Drones are killing innocents in dozens shows the lack of responsibility by your own army towards your won people

and yes nothing of this sort happen in any where in India..yow may cry about a single rape in India but we can only laugh about hundreds of killing you do to minorities, balochis in your own country

just look at terrorist control kashmir you have...Human right violation is nothing new there

and as your Backward area is concerned ..i was a bit generous in calling it backward and not stone age..!!..you need to learn the defination of "developed" area...