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Diplomatic row jeopardizes $1.5B helicopter deal between Turkey and Pakistan

Correct but now Turkey and US relations are bad so we will have to see how it turns out to be.
mark my words, India will pay heavy price if you go along too close with USA and buying their weapons. you better stick with France and Israel.

Still it will remain highly under power and its power to weight ratio shall be much lower than Turkey chopper and will remain unfit for high altitude operations if Pakistan has a plant to use it in Himalaya.
oh, come on. pt 6c only fields 1600HP.
 
mark my words, India will pay heavy price if you go along too close with USA and buying their w
eapons. you better stick with France and Israel.
Our current policy is to buy which suites our requirements most. We buy it with loads of terms and conditions including availability spare gaurantee , weapons etc.

oh, come on. pt 6c only fields 1600HP.
What is the weight of Z 10?
 
Our current policy is to buy which suites our requirements most. We buy it with loads of terms and conditions including availability spare gaurantee , weapons etc.


What is the weight of Z 10?
its actually reduce the weight of armout to make a heli lighter, does it make sense? a engine of 1800HP is more.than eough, and with potential to be escalated to 2000HP.
 
its actually reduce the weight of armout to make a heli lighter, does it make sense? a engine of 1800HP is more.than eough, and with potential to be escalated to 2000HP.
You are talking about 1800 hp with 5.5 ton weight which can work at low altitude but it can not go beyond 10000 ft with useful load.
 
It is premature to think that the deal to explore possibility of joint defence production will help in the acquisition of engines for the T129. Besides, Turkey and US will get past this spat in the coming few months and we will get the delivery of these choppers inshallah.

As for your view on Z-10, you are wrong on its its strengths unfortunately. Its neither fast nor maneuverable as both these variables are tied to an underpowered engine. As for stable, when the requirement is to be able to hover, which helicopter isn't? Don't see that as a "strength" to be espoused. Given that PA has already inducted a handful of Mi-35s, those are logically the only other helicopter that should be pursued. Z-10 will never see a day in active service in PA on its merits, unless there are massive kickbacks and corruption involved.

For the Thunderbolts, if you are referring to A-10s, then I am afraid you are living in some fairyland. And this is not just for the fact that US will never sell any to Pakistan, but the fact that you want PAF to be the sole operator of an American aircraft and that too of a non-multirole plane that has no room on a modern battlefield unless the side operating it has absolute air dominance (read not PAF vs IAF in any scenario).

I wouldn't called Z-10 gunship non maneuverable or not fast after seeing those video. Even a Mi-24/35 Hind cant do a 360 degrees loop. We are talking about a 5.5 tons helo making a complete loop. More or less show its power to weight ratio.

The only approve gunship for export so far from PLA is Z-19E, latest photo show it can carry 16 ATGM plus a wave radar. More or less tells you its engine power.

 
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Its a risk nevertheless and the US in the past has embargoed and used the F-16s and AH-1s for leverage over Pakistan.

Given the trajectory on which Pakistani geostrategic alignment is, is the superior capability of T-129 compared to the Chinese WZ-10 (if there is any at all) really worth the risk?

Personally I don't think Pakistan should put all its eggs in one basket, and I see the trajectory and I don't think it should be about letting the pieces fall where they may. It should be about expanding your opportunities and planning for long term success. If the Turkish industry grows Pakistan will have two reliable allies willing to supply it according to Pakistan's needs

If testing revealed the Z-10 to be the best and Pakistan is still going for Turkey then I'd probably disagree
 
Bottom line is are you going to be able to get the heli's or not ?
 
Bottom line is are you going to be able to get the heli's or not ?
1. The T129's engine - i.e. CTS800 - requires US approval as it's under ITAR.

2. In terms of engines, Pakistan has been good in terms of getting ITAR clearance (e.g. various US engines power our F-16s, C-130s, Saab 2000s, AW139s, Bell 412s, etc).

3. But Turkish analysts are not sure if Turkey will get a license to re-export the ITAR (in general, not just to Pakistan) due to Turkey's issues with the US.

4. But since Pakistan isn't sanctioned (...at least not yet...) it should be able to buy the CTS800 directly from the US (or the UK or Italy) and then look at assembling the T129 at PAC.

So overall, folks are unsure, but it might not be a deal-breaker.
 
1. The T129's engine - i.e. CTS800 - requires US approval as it's under ITAR.

2. In terms of engines, Pakistan has been good in terms of getting ITAR clearance (e.g. various US engines power our F-16s, C-130s, Saab 2000s, AW139s, Bell 412s, etc).

3. But Turkish analysts are not sure if Turkey will get a license to re-export the ITAR (in general, not just to Pakistan) due to Turkey's issues with the US.

4. But since Pakistan isn't sanctioned (...at least not yet...) it should be able to buy the CTS800 directly from the US (or the UK or Italy) and then look at assembling the T129 at PAC.

So overall, folks are unsure, but it might not be a deal-breaker.
US will never direct export engine to Pakistan. And Turkey will never give engineless helo . All required rugged testing and lot of equipment . I don't know if TAI will move all equipment to Pak , if even engine export to Pak. But, Yes situation is not good. I don't see any T129 near future until this Turkish-US standoff ends.
 
Any engine has a limit of uplifting the total load. Z 10 with its weak engine and heavy weight can not carry 500 kg above 10000 ft. This is a simulation result and not my wishful thinking.
Dear the chopper have been tested with pay load at height about 10000ft, that is real testing!! Not simulations. Yes you are right, even engine will have its limitations, it is just that you are getting the limitations of Z10 totally wrong.
 
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