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Differentiating a terrorist and a shaheed

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bhangra12345

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An interesting article, my comments in red

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
We are a nation bred on war. Not simply because we have been ruled by the military for much of our sixty-year existence, but also in terms of the national myths that sustain our national identity.

Every Pakistani child learns early to venerate the army and to idolise the martyrs that have sacrificed their lives for the country. We name streets after them and commemorate their birthdays. Even those of us who were born decades after the wars fought against India in the sixties and seventies, learn of heroic acts by our soldiers.

These images and practices of nationhood that sustain and create our identity through textbooks, the celebration of Defence Days and the commemoration of martyrs are all pivoted against fighting the non-Muslim and usually Indian enemy. In this war, Pakistani forces fight against enemies of Islam that are threatening our national integrity. Parallels are often drawn between those fighting and dying for Pakistan and the early Muslim fighters who were martyred in the name of Islam in the Battles of Badr, Uhud and Karbala. Undeniably, the “shaheed” who put the sanctity of his faith, and hence the interests of his nation, above his own life is the ultimate Pakistani hero.

But now Pakistan faces a new battle, and a new enemy. The national myth of a valiant Muslim army fighting against the enemies of Islam that has sustained us in interminable wars and hostilities against India can no longer serve us. This is because the new enemy, which has claimed over two hundred innocent Pakistani lives and left more than 600 injured and maimed since September, is not an “other” defined by religious and national difference; he is situated within our own territorial boundaries, connected to us by culture, ethnicity and language, and making claims to the same concept of martyrdom in the name of Islam as our own army.
This is most important point isnt it?
More worryingly, today’s enemy(the problem to solve first is whether he is an enemy or not, i.e. whether he is the other or not) was the vanguard in our battles against the infidels and while the state might have chosen to redefine some parameters of Pakistani nationalism, so it is Pakistan's defintion which has changed according to her he holds the ideals aloft and considers the state and its functionaries treacherous — not only because the state that sacralised itself by making the narrative religion-heavy is now reneging on those parameters but because by doing so it is also undermining the bigger ideal of pan-Islamism.this pan-islamism was propogated by the pakistani govt itself, Eg: The talk of pak's nuclear arsenal as muslim nuclear power, no other country ever tried to make it that way, but Pakistan chose to.

and now this same concept of pan-islamism is biting back.


It is this final fact that poses the biggest challenge to Pakistanis in facing down and defeating the new extremism that has led to us to be entitled by Newsweek magazine as “the most dangerous nation in the world”.

The increasing death toll from suicide bombings, the burning down of music and video shops, the overt threats of more violence by the likes of rebel cleric Maulana Fazlullah and Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud are all desperate signs of the urgent need to reassess how we will redefine our ideologies and our sense of national identity to truly understand that those who commit acts of aggression against innocent civilians are our greatest enemies(Defining everything as enemies as she is trying to do is a problem).

Most crucially, it requires us to define clearly the difference between a “shaheed’ and a “terrorist, such that the confusion that currently pervades our understanding of this distinction does not drag us deeper into the morass of senseless violence.

In other words, how do we turn into the “other” what belonged to us, indeed defined us?

The first task in delineating this crucial distinction is to recognise the battle being fought against extremism as our own distinctly Pakistani struggle. Much rhetoric has been expended on how the battles being fought in the tribal areas are being fought at the behest of the United States and have little do with Pakistani national interests. This ignores the blatant and glaring reality that the 222 dead in the past two months have been innocent Pakistani citizens who had no stake in the US or its strategic interests.

While the imperialist influence of the United States is certainly worth denouncing and resisting, it should not dull us into supporting the scourge that is condemning our nation to a grisly reality. If we fall into the illogical and self-sabotaging trap of denouncing the war against extremism and suicide terror simply because of our opposition to the imperialist actions of the US, we would be doing our nation a great disservice.

Secondly, it is important ideologically to refine our definitions of who constitutes an enemy to Pakistan. In the past, for a variety of reasons, such definitions have pivoted on our identity as Muslims and the identity of our enemies as non-Muslims. Since this is no longer the case, we must create the ideological iterations that see the misuse of Islam and the use of its doctrines to justify violence as something unequivocally intolerable and reprehensible.

This is a complicated task. How indeed must an army and a nation raised on sixty years of fighting a non-Muslim enemy now re-conceptualise the meanings of “enemy” to fit a foe that claims to still practice the ideals the state has abandoned? Recognising this perversion of Islam that our new enemy represents is a goal that will require much work and soul-searching by a Pakistani population used to looking at religion as a panacea.

I began by arguing that every Pakistani child is taught to venerate and respect the shaheeds who gave their lives for their nation. This fact bears important clues regarding how the future of Pakistan must be shaped. The new enemy, the Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders that have unleashed a spate of bombings on innocent civilians across the country, are adept at using our own identity and our national veneration of death and martyrdom as a weapon against us.

Unless we, as a nation, can define clearly the difference between a shaheed that dies for his nation as part of armed combat, and a terrorist who misuses religion to justify an act of aggression against innocent civilians, our future generations will fall into the deceptive trap of believing that the distinction between a shaheed and a terrorist is perhaps just a matter of opinion.
sorry had to rush.
 
As I had said earlier somewhere that these terrorists are no friends of Pakistan and are using Islam to suit their purpose and confusing the people.

Pakistan has to progress and be reckonable amongst the comity of nations, more so as an economic powerhouse than militarily or as the bastion of religion. Musharraf is the best answer to this end and he is doing all he can, even as the terrorists are trying their best to slide it back to the antediluvian days! Financial health is what makes a country great!

I am sure Musharraf will pull his vision through and all the best to him!

It is time for all to rise above sub nationalism and look to Pakistan as a country and it is for the govt to appear equitable and fair. But then, one should also have the courage to realise that things cannot be perfect! And it is not applicable to Pakistan alone, it is for all countries!

Even in the US, there is bickering that those of Louisiana after Katarina did not get a deal as good as the rich of California is getting in the horrendous forest fire that is blazing in California!

Nothing is perfect!
 
Pakistan never named it islamic or muslim bomb it was done by yours and western media and there was a big question raised that when india blasts a bomb it is not called a hindu bomb, similarly US bombs are not called christian bombs, same case with israel, why is pakistan's nuclear bomb being called islamic bomb. And the answer to this was that it is called so to show it as a threat to the rest of the unislamic world and to create an opinion in the world to consider this islamic country as an enemy. This is nothing more then BS propaganda and we never said that our bombs are islamic bombs.
Bombs dont have name or cast or religion.
 
Pakistan never named it islamic or muslim bomb it was done by yours and western media and there was a big question raised that when india blasts a bomb it is not called a hindu bomb, similarly US bombs are not called christian bombs, same case with israel, why is pakistan's nuclear bomb being called islamic bomb. And the answer to this was that it is called so to show it as a threat to the rest of the unislamic world and to create an opinion in the world to consider this islamic country as an enemy. This is nothing more then BS propaganda and we never said that our bombs are islamic bombs.
Bombs dont have name or cast or religion.

Islamic Bomb?

I have missed something somewhere.

Can't locate that! Poor eyesight maybe!

Where did that surface or is the issue raised for sidestepping!

I have used 'Find' also to locate the word 'Islamic bomb' in the original article of Daily Times.

Nowhere I could find anything to do with the Islamic bomb, nor do I see any posts alluding to it. Or has it been mentioned that I missed?

Is it your guilty conscience or hallucination that prompt this type of a interjection to take the thread off course and then make it a mess?

And then allow hell let loose with banning and things like that!

This forum is very balanced (as I see it) but some people are bent on making things silly with the usual Indo Pak, Hindu Moslem and such innateness to wreck up the forum and then blame people mischievously that they are hackers or flamers!

I am mentioning all this so that right in the beginning one is clear who is starting the rot!
 
Islamic Bomb?

I have missed something somewhere.

Can't locate that! Poor eyesight maybe!

Where did that surface or is the issue raised for sidestepping!

I have used 'Find' also to locate the word 'Islamic bomb' in the original article of Daily Times.

Nowhere I could find anything to do with the Islamic bomb, nor do I see any posts alluding to it. Or has it been mentioned that I missed?

Is it your guilty conscience or hallucination that prompt this type of a interjection to take the thread off course and then make it a mess?

And then allow hell let loose with banning and things like that!

This forum is very balanced (as I see it) but some people are bent on making things silly with the usual Indo Pak, Hindu Moslem and such innateness to wreck up the forum and then blame people mischievously that they are hackers or flamers!

I am mentioning all this so that right in the beginning one is clear who is starting the rot!

First of all you do need to get your eyes examined. I commented not on the article but the comment that was written in red. And so why are you suddenly started to flame up? what did i wrote that has agitated you?
My guilty conscience for what? And why would i wana take this thread off topic? What the hell are you talking about? You dont need to unleash your somesort of frustration on me. I'm not really in a mood to get engaged with you over nothing. You find my post disturbing, there is an ignore button that you can always press.
 
First of all you do need to get your eyes examined. I commented not on the article but the comment that was written in red. And so why are you suddenly started to flame up? what did i wrote that has agitated you?



i think icecold along with checking eyesight we should also advice some to check some brain checking also :P

BTW it is the most pathatic behaviour by some quarters who out of p*ssing off named out bomb as Islamic bomb

lol i dont know when will the Islamophobia will end .
 
First of all you do need to get your eyes examined. I commented not on the article but the comment that was written in red. And so why are you suddenly started to flame up? what did i wrote that has agitated you?
My guilty conscience for what? And why would i wana take this thread off topic? What the hell are you talking about? You dont need to unleash your somesort of frustration on me. I'm not really in a mood to get engaged with you over nothing. You find my post disturbing, there is an ignore button that you can always press.

Good one.

Yeh bhi wah wah, tan bhi wah wah!. Hopefully you understand the most popular language of Pakistan!

Who the Dickens said this when none mentioned it:

Pakistan never named it islamic or muslim bomb it was done by yours and western media and there was a big question raised that when india blasts a bomb it is not called a hindu bomb, similarly US bombs are not called christian bombs, same case with israel, why is pakistan's nuclear bomb being called islamic bomb. And the answer to this was that it is called so to show it as a threat to the rest of the unislamic world and to create an opinion in the world to consider this islamic country as an enemy. This is nothing more then BS propaganda and we never said that our bombs are islamic bombs.
Bombs dont have name or cast or religion.



Any one other than the good old tuchkoo called IceCold?


Once again you are running for cover attributing mental dilemmas and insecurities on the forum?

Be bold and stand up for what you write!

Can't be women!

What has religion to do with bombs?


i think icecold along with checking eyesight we should also advice some to check some brain checking also

BTW it is the most pathatic behaviour by some quarters who out of p*ssing off named out bomb as Islamic bomb

lol i dont know when will the Islamophobia will end .
Jana,

Who is stating one has a problem with Islam? What has Islam got to do with this?

The NWFP chaps require a brain check.

They are doing everything to ruin the intelligence of Musharaf!

Or are you also of the opinion that Musharraf is anti Islam and Mehsud the Pathan is right??
 
Any one other than the good old tuchkoo called IceCold???

:) if i can expect such a low from a person like you ????????????



Can't be women!??
care to explain sir ???

If you are terming women sheepish than well such a pitty you must be twice my age isnt it :) but than when lose your temper while even after abusive language from Bull and personal attacks from even you and some other indians but i did not lose temper. SO who is chicken :azn: you guys



What has religion to do with bombs???

exactly what has religion to do with bombs


Who is stating one has a problem with Islam? What has Islam got to do with this?

The NWFP chaps require a brain check.

They are doing everything to ruin the intelligence of Musharaf!

Or are you also of the opinion that Musharraf is anti Islam and Mehsud the Pathan is right??

One Mehsud does not represents all Pathans same as one fanatic Hinud does not represents all Hindus.
so next i guess you wont act like much naive person ;)

As far as having brain well we in NWFP have brian as well as dignity as well as courage to speak in the same tone and manner at every front and fora the way we speak on our own foras not unlike some people who behave like mannred chaps while on soile of their rivals and use dirty language while they are on their own.
:enjoy:
 
Good one.

Yeh bhi wah wah, tan bhi wah wah!. Hopefully you understand the most popular language of Pakistan!

Who the Dickens said this when none mentioned it:





Any one other than the good old tuchkoo called IceCold?


Once again you are running for cover attributing mental dilemmas and insecurities on the forum?

Be bold and stand up for what you write!

Can't be women!

What has religion to do with bombs?

I warned you not to engage with me but it seems you are willing to put up a fight over an old souls of yours. So i stand by what i said, i'm not the running type not when i'm up against an indian. I respect you because you are an elder person and belong to military i respect that but if you wana get personal with me so be it. Mods please let it continue since its time i kick some hardcore indian *** once and for all.:devil:
 
Nope, I used the term "muslim nuclear power" not "islamic bomb" though the meaning is the same. So if there is any confusion, it is due to this.

and by the way, icecold, there is no hindu-jewish-christo-american- what else remains? conspiracy behind this. It was named so because it was named such by the creator of nuclear program, Zulphikar Ali Bhutto. So, the blame is all in your country's leaders, why do you blame us in this way?
Icecold said:
Pakistan never named it islamic or muslim bomb it was done by yours and western media

If you want proof, here it is and this is from dawn, a Pakistani newspaper, so no no hindu-jewish-christo-american- what else remains? conspiracy behind this again.

"As far as I recall he did not call it an Islamic bomb when he launched the nuclear programme in 1974," said Ms Bhutto in a letter to a US news agency, United Press International.

He called it an Islamic bomb some time in 1978 or 1979 from the death cell. It was here that he wrote for the first time that the Christian, Jewish and Hindu civilizations had a nuclear bomb and that he had made one for the Islamic world," she writes.

N-plan not financed by Muslim states: Benazir -DAWN - Top Stories; 14 April, 2004

Though in that article BB tried to define it not as islamic bomb, but hey it was called as the islamic bomb by the creator itself. Now if we quote the idea from the creator, why should we be blamed?

None, I mean none of India's, USA's, China's leaders in rule/after rule EVER called it as hindu/christian/communist bomb. So why blame us? Blame on the creator of the Pakistan's nuclear program-ZAB.
 
This is nothing more then BS propaganda and we never said that our bombs are islamic bombs.
Nope, no BS propaganda, this is propaganda- but one started by Pakistan itself, proof already provided.
Bombs dont have name or cast or religion.
Unless the creator/handler chose to give it and your creator chose.
 
i think icecold along with checking eyesight we should also advice some to check some brain checking also :P

BTW it is the most pathatic behaviour by some quarters who out of p*ssing off named out bomb as Islamic bomb
No p*ssing off from others, it was p*ssing by ZAB.
lol i dont know when will the Islamophobia will end .
Nothing to do with islamophobia or as such. Your leaders defined it that way.
 
Nope, I used the term "muslim nuclear power" not "islamic bomb" though the meaning is the same. So if there is any confusion, it is due to this.

and by the way, icecold, there is no hindu-jewish-christo-american- what else remains? conspiracy behind this. It was named so because it was named such by the creator of nuclear program, Zulphikar Ali Bhutto. So, the blame is all in your country's leaders, why do you blame us in this way?


If you want proof, here it is and this is from dawn, a Pakistani newspaper, so no no hindu-jewish-christo-american- what else remains? conspiracy behind this again.



N-plan not financed by Muslim states: Benazir -DAWN - Top Stories; 14 April, 2004

Though in that article BB tried to define it not as islamic bomb, but hey it was called as the islamic bomb by the creator itself. Now if we quote the idea from the creator, why should we be blamed?

None, I mean none of India's, USA's, China's leaders in rule/after rule EVER called it as hindu/christian/communist bomb. So why blame us? Blame on the creator of the Pakistan's nuclear program-ZAB.

Who the **** are you trying to quote here? BB. No serious person would wana quote what she has to say, dont believe me ask any other person pakistani on this forum.
Like i said we never mentioned it islamic bomb, no ruler did except of BB, she can and will do so, and she doesnt need a reason too. She has always hurt pakistan's interests by propaganda stuff and she will continue to do so, nothing new here at all.
And kindly tell Salim to get his eyes and head examined, what he was trying to show as my guilty conscious was all in reality which i pointed out towards the article.
 
Who the **** are you trying to quote here? BB. No serious person would wana quote what she has to say, dont believe me ask any other person pakistani on this forum.
Like i said we never mentioned it islamic bomb, no ruler did except of BB, she can and will do so, and she doesnt need a reason too. She has always hurt pakistan's interests by propaganda stuff and she will continue to do so, nothing new here at all.

She might be the worst Pakistani hater in the world, I do not care.

But she was the Prime Minister of Pakistan and was in a position where she was the head of the Govt of Pakistan (which includes constitutionally the army and the nuke establishment by the way). So I am quoting a former Pakistan's prime minister on this issue.

WIth respect to decisions regarding nukes, no exceptions can be allowed, you need 100%, thats it. One leakage of radioactivity/ one mistake can be chernobyl or even worse the whole world ceasing to exist. So saying BB is an exception doesnt cut the ice. (and btw I was quoting her to say that ZAB said so.)
 
She might be the worst Pakistani hater in the world, I do not care.

But she was the Prime Minister of Pakistan and was in a position where she was the head of the Govt of Pakistan (which includes constitutionally the army and the nuke establishment by the way). So I am quoting a former Pakistan's prime minister on this issue.

WIth respect to decisions regarding nukes, no exceptions can be allowed, you need 100%, thats it. One leakage of radioactivity/ one mistake can be chernobyl or even worse the whole world ceasing to exist. So saying BB is an exception doesnt cut the ice. (and btw I was quoting her to say that ZAB said so.)

We know you indians enjoy quoting that b****. Do you think we pakistanies really care or give a damn about what she has to say about Pakistan. She is as worst as any western jewish and hindu media is with respect to anti Pakistan statements. She is known for her BS and really if you wana carry on the discussion with respect to her carry on, no one really bothers and frankly this is my last reply to you on this issue.
 
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