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DID THE ARABS CONQUER ALGERIA?

Ceylal

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History and Identity: Did the Arabs conquer Algeria?
The debate shaking Algerian society on the crucial question of the Arab or Berber identity of Algeria requires a return to the source of this cleavage. The origin is, of course, the Arab expansion in North Africa.

Some argue that the Arabs have never conquered Algeria, others claim an Arab origin justifying the Arab identity of Algeria. What is it really? In order to answer this question, two periods, marked by two major expansion movements, must be taken into consideration: The period of the first expansion and that of the second, that of the Beni-hillals

First wave: Period 700-973

The Arabs, having imposed their domination on Tripolitania (Libya) and Ifrikiya (Tunisia) will prevail against the Berbers (698) led by Tarik Ibn-Ziad, integrate them into their army and continue their expansion to the West following the axis Biskra-Tlemcen and Tangier to finally conquer Andalusia (711). In the Algerian context, only the Constantinois will be the object of a military-type presence, characterized, moreover, by a strong mistrust vis-à-vis the local populations. Indeed, the region sees the installation, on its soil, of fortresses in the Hodna and the Mzab which stood guard against the Aurès and others in the region of Annaba against Kabylie, thereby reinforcing the rooting of Berber populations in the mountains.

The Arabs will establish distant relations with the Berbers, marked above all by the desire to subject the inhabitants to the payment of taxes (cities) or tribute (campaigns). This policy will trigger many insurrections by the Berber communities that will spread throughout the 8th century and create a context appropriate to the birth of a non-Arab opposition movement: it is kharidjism (700-799). ), which is the first movement to question the ethno-Arab presence in North Africa. The Berber rebels indeed adhere to this movement, of Islamic type, and use it as an ideology of protest and mobilization against the Arab power. It will be located in the Mzab, and will lead, under the direction of Ibn Rustum, Emir of Tahart, the war against the Arab troops but it will not succeed to extend outside the Saharan regions. The Arab troops, led by the governor of the Mzab, Aghlab will defeat the Kharidjites, and force them to commit to living in their Mzab cities.

The Aghlab benefit for this victory of power in the Maghreb. Indeed in 800, the first Aghlab obtains the title Emir and will leave it to his heirs. The Aghlabid dynasty will reign over the Maghreb throughout the 9th century (800-900). It concentrated its actions on Tunisia and Morocco, rich and prosperous regions and sources of taxes and tribute. The Aghalabids were not interested in the Algerian territory because it offered no economic interest. Even the Constantine, near the center of power (Kairouan) is ignored, because it shines, compared to Tunisia, by its poverty. Poor, the region is abandoned to itself, so that the Aghlabids did not undertake any campaign that could lead to the installation of an Arab population in this country. Moreover, they established with the populations a report based on force and distance, a ratio symbolized by the fortresses, as mentioned above. This marginalization, of which the Berbers were victims, will make it a fertile ground for the enemies of the Aghlabids, namely, the Fatimids. Allies of the Abbasid movement, the Aghlabids will indeed be the target of a second movement of questioning their presence in North Africa, between 900 and 976. This is Shiism. Adepts of Imam Ali, the Shiites or Fatimids, posed as opponents of the ruling Abbassids in the East and the Maghreb. The counterpoint was the succession of the prophet of Islam. will make it a fertile ground for the enemies of the Aghlabids, namely, The Fatimids. Allies of the Abbasid movement, the Aghlabids will indeed be the target of a second movement of questioning their presence in North Africa, between 900 and 976. This is Shiism. Adepts of Imam Ali, the Shiites or Fatimids, posed as opponents of the ruling Abbassids in the East and the Maghreb. The counterpoint was the succession of the prophet of Islam. will make it a fertile ground for the enemies of the Aghlabids, namely, The Fatimids. Allies of the Abbasid movement, the Aghlabids will indeed be the target of a second movement of questioning their presence in North Africa, between 900 and 976. This is Shiism. Adepts of Imam Ali, the Shiites or Fatimids, posed as opponents of the ruling Abbassids in the East and the Maghreb. The counterpoint was the succession of the prophet of Islam.

A war between the two camps followed and the conflict was transposed to the Maghreb. The Arab leaders of the movement managed to convince certain Berber tribes of South-Constantinois to join their struggle. These Berbers will constitute the strike force of the Fatimid army and participate in the assaults against the Arab power in North Africa. The war between the two tendencies (Abbasids and Fatimids) spread from 902 to 946 to finally conclude with the victory of the Fatimids. This movement, led by Arabs with Berber groups, as supports, which had as its field of action the axis Tunisia-Sahara-Morocco but not Algeria-North (Constantinois, Kabylie, Algérois, Oranie), n had virtually no impact on the ethno-Berber composition of the Algerian population. Even more, his victory over the Aghlabids gave rise to a major event that would bring down the Arab presence in Algeria at zero point. This is the decision of the Fatimid caliph Al-Mu'izz, last Arab overlord in the Maghreb (Tunisia), to conquer Egypt.

This action, with the help of an army of 100,000 Berber riders (Kotamas, Sanhadjas), mostly from South-Constantinois, saw the departure of Arab populations from North Africa and the transfer of power to Islamized Berbers (Zirids). This evolution leads to a complete disappearance of the Arab element in Algeria so that it can be said that the first Arab wave having established its domination over North Africa, was not, in the Algerian space, a colonization of stand. The Arab presence was located in Tunisia, Morocco and Andalusia, because of their potential in agriculture and agriculture. Algeria was essentially a transit zone along the South-Constantine-Biskra-Tahert-Tlemcen axis. What will happen with the second wave, that of the Beni-hillal (1051)? Will it be a settlement colonization, or a transient movement with no effect on the Berber character of Algeria?

Second Wave: The Beni-hillals (1051-1163)

These Arab tribes, migrated to North Africa in 1051. Their movements were registered in relation to three axes.

First Tunisia. The Arab tribes overthrow the central power of the Zirids and impose their domination. Each tribal chief monopolizes a principality, imposes his authority, submits the inhabitants of the cities to pay a royalty and the farmers and arborists to give part of their harvests of wheat, dates, and olive (a tribute), takes charge trade or control.

Second, Morocco. Their advance, initially towards the West is stopped clean by Berber tribes (Zenetes), faithful to the Moroccan power, so that they will not conquer the Morocco. They will turn back to Tunisia, or engage in raids, towns bordering the highlands, thus causing the ruin of Tahert, or against commercial caravans from east to west, thus causing a shift of traditional trade routes into the interior of the Sahara.

Third, the Sahara: Part of the tribes find themselves integrated over time in the trans-Saharan trade crisscrossing the Saharan regions. A trade especially around Sidjilmassa, zone where the nomads would exchange the gold powder against the salt, to then pass by twenty four oases-stopovers, place of loading of the dates and finally to go towards the East, Andalusia or Morocco or Tunisia, a region that has also received the largest number of Arab nomads. What about Algeria on this point? In other words, did the Arab nomads settle in the area that today forms Algeria? Four areas that can answer this question are to be distinguished: Constantine, Kabylie / Aures, Algiers and Oran. With regard to Constantine, exposed to Tunisia, it is marked by a relative peace between Arabs and Berbers during the first fifty years. Nevertheless, later the Arabs pushed their incursions and raids towards this region remained under the authority of the Hammadids, dynasty Berber. The Emir An-nasir, head of this dynasty, shaken by Arab attacks, evacuated the region and fled westward, beyond the mountains of Little Kabylia. He founded An-nasiriya (bedjaia), a place chosen because the mountains, inaccessible to camels, means of displacement of the nomads, offered a certain protection against Arab attacks. The evacuation by the emir of Constantinois created a free field for the Arab troops. Will they occupy it as in the case of Tunisia? The Constantinois who overlooked Tunisia consisted, schematically, of three regions:

a) - the plain of Annaba which did not offer an anchor, that is to say an agricultural economy, in other words a peasantry which could, as in the case of Tunisia, provide a tribute or a tax. It is a region traveled by sheep farmers, living on the verge of survival, refusing to pay taxes or a tribute. The surrounding mountains were a safe haven for them in the face of Arab incursions. In fact, the plain of Annaba did not constitute a strong attraction for the Arab nomads. The latter did not settle in this region.

b) - Plain axis of Annaba-South Constantinois. This area, which ran from the plain of Annaba to the south-Constantinois, was a forested region also traversed by Berber herders, relatively poor, and who, in case of nomadic attacks, took refuge in the mountains. They did so, fleeing Arab raids, giving birth to villages still present today. As in the preceding case, the Arabs, powerless to oblige the Berbers of this region to provide them with means of subsistence, did not establish themselves there.

c) - The third region is the south of Constantine, a region marked by two elements that aroused the greed of the Arab tribes (Athbej): an agricultural activity around the production of cereals which subjected the peasants to harassment and raids as well as a road taken by caravans from the Sahara and heading towards the port of Bedjaia or Tunisia. This region, which was under the control of the Hammadites, became the scene of frequent battles between the Arab nomads who controlled much of Tunisia and the Berbers.

The nomads sought to impose their domination on the peasants and their control over this new caravan route from the Sahara to Bedjaia, which became an export port. The outcome of the conflict between the two groups seemed uncertain when an element outside the region was going to precipitate the events: The rise of the Mouahidines (Almohades) in Morocco. Abdelmoumem, the emir of this dynasty, decided, in fact, to organize a military expedition in order to impose his authority on Ifrikiya where the Hillalians had power.

A battle which lasted four days was held in 1151 at Setif. The Almohad army faced the Hillalians, crushed them and led them to flee the region towards the Tunisian and Libyan desert. The Almohade troops continued their deployment towards Tunisia, in order to definitively put an end to the power of the Beni-hillals: At the beginning of 1159, Tunis was conquered, Mahdiya taken, as well as Sfax, Sousse, Gabes and Tripoli. Defeated and finally overwhelmed, the Arabs will disappear totally as power of the whole of North Africa. They will disperse to the point where perhaps many of them will return to the East.

On n’entendra parler d’eux par la suite, dans les écrits de Ibn-khaldoun, que comme individus enrôlés comme soldats-mercenaires dans les armées marocaines. En ce qui a trait à l’Algérie, la plus grande des conséquences de cette victoire fût la disparition de l’ethnie arabe du Constantinois. Une disparition qui évita à cette région la même évolution que la Tunisie. Une situation que la Kabylie et les Aurès ont pu aussi éviter en raison de la topographie. Les montagnes furent en effet, une forteresse à laquelle les Arabes évitèrent de s’attaquer. En effet, ils n’y mirent jamais les pieds. Et pour cause, les nomades, ne sont à l’aise que dans le désert ou bien dans les plaines. Des régions qui ne les attirent que dans un cas: la présence d’une paysannerie qu’ils peuvent soumettre et exploiter à outrance. Une situation qui n’existe, par ailleurs, ni dans l’Algérois, ni dans l’Oranie et qui explique que ces deux régions n’aient pas été investi par les nomades arabes, n’aient pas connu de présence ou de conquête arabe. L’Algérois, région boisée, ne fut pas aussi une zone attractive.

The plains of Algiers were, in fact, wooded, uncultivated, relatively deserted. In this region, as in the case of Tunisia, there was no peasantry that could arouse the envy of the Arabs. Oranie offered the same face as the Algerian. Moreover, it was not only forested but also covered with swamps. That said, if for Kabylie and Aures, the lack of interest of the Arabs for these regions is obvious because of their inaccessibility to camels, their main means of transport, which they never separate, with regard to the Algiers and Oran, the nomads could, one would say, occupy the soil and work the land or become livestock breeders. The answer is no because such a situation is unimaginable and impossible and it can be explained by the sociology of the nomads.

Indeed nomads are only seen in the nomadism he practices in the desert through the conveyance of caravans, the transport of goods, raids and breeding camels. Noble activity par excellence. Below, comes the category raising sheep, a degrading situation. Below the latter, the cattle or buffalo farmer belongs to the last category, that of the dreadful sedentary. The work of the land is foreign to the life of the nomad, a contemptuous and degrading activity, because the nomad rejects sedentarization. He is always moving.

The only compromise for him to stabilize in a specific environment is the possibility, as in the case of Tunisia, to subject to serfdom a peasant population, population it exploits funds, pushing, unconsciously, the peasants to ruin and to escape. A situation, bringing him back to the breeder life and again at the start to other skies. A cycle reported by Abdellah Laroui, in his book, History of the Maghreb. Such a situation could not be achieved in Algiers and Oran, given the absence of an agricultural and arboreal economy (fruit trees). A case in point which explains why the Arab tribes did not impose their domination on Algeria. The Arab presence has been restricted in the Algerian space, the Sahara (Mzab) and it will eventually disappear. Indeed,

All these facts explain why the phenomenon of migration of Arab tribes in North Africa did not lead to their installation in the Algerian space. The analysis of this aspect from the aspect of the sociology of nomads and their philosophy of life (nomadism and disregard for sedentarization), the Algerian topography (mountains-fortresses), the economy practiced (livestock farmers in the constantinois, absence of peasants), geography (swampy plains and woodlands), the attraction of Morocco and Tunisia, regions very prosperous economically and led by powers, especially Morocco, great recruiters, after 1151 (battle of Setif) of Hilalians, as mercenaries, helps to understand why Algeria has not been conquered
 
Last time I checked the Arabs conquered North Africa and the Berbers today are crying like babies.

The Berbers are no different than the Kurds. Inferior and a bunch of crying bitches who cant hack it that the Arabs took their women.

Pretty pathetic you got conquered deal with it.
 
The debate shaking Algerian society on the crucial question of the Arab or Berber identity of Algeria

Why can't you just say you're a mix of Arabs and Berbers? Your country doesn't need to be mono-cultural.
 
I do not know if arabs conquered algera but Capslock has conquered Algeria.

And

If Nobody is claiming. Let the indians claim it like they claim IVC.

#SoftPower
 
Why can't you just say you're a mix of Arabs and Berbers? Your country doesn't need to be mono-cultural.
It can’t be a mix..a mix is at least 50/50...The Arab gene is ZERO%... in Algeria ...How can we be Arab when we are not Arab...but Muslim...Saying that Algerian speaks Arabic, is a fallacy of the century....All you have to o is listen to our ministers speaking it.

Last time I checked the Arabs conquered North Africa and the Berbers today are crying like babies.

The Berbers are no different than the Kurds. Inferior and a bunch of crying bitches who cant hack it that the Arabs took their women.

Pretty pathetic you got conquered deal with it.
Says it the basket of the déplorables...

Berber vs 500 million Arab ahahah.
If you take the Berbers out of the equation..Arabs are bearely half of that...
 
It can’t be a mix..a mix is at least 50/50

No, a mix is when you have multiple different cultures. It doesn't necessitate that the different cultures all exist in all equal proportion to each other.

The Arab gene is ZERO%

I'm pretty sure that just like other North Africans (and most Muslims near or in the Middle East), Algerians do have small amounts of ancestry from the core Arab countries.

How can we be Arab when we are not Arab.

You come from a culture that speaks Arabic (albeit a butchered version of it), that makes you Arab.

but Muslim

Considering the contempt you've shown for other Muslims in the past, I'm dubious about how much of Islam you take seriously.
 
The Arab-obsessed and Arabized stateless Kabyle migrant that escaped to the US, barking once again.

You can identity as a Martian or as a off-spring of a prostitute. Nobody gives a crap. 90%+ of all Algerians identify as Arabs proudly. Share ancient history, blood, language, culture, phenotype, geography etc. with us.

To make it short, yes. Ruling it for almost 1000 years as well. To this very day as well. Not only Algeria but the largest empire to date (back then) stretching from Southern France to Xinjiang (China) and Sindh (Pakistan).

The longer version was already posted a week ago when the Barbarian posted his nonsense.

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Practically every DNA tests available shows Maghrebis (Moroccans, Tunisians and Algerians) clustering closely with populations of the Arab world. Closer than any other group of people in the world.

That's not even included the language, culture, phenotype, history, geography etc.

The article above provides zero proof and might as well have been written by a drunk guy. It's laughable really.

As for the thread starter he is an Arab-obsessed (in particular about KSA, Egypt, Morocco and Iraq) stateless Kabyle fanatic (some 4-5 million people worldwide) that lives in La La Land. Arabized for 40 generations + and indistinguishable from Arabs by large. DNA wise as well. Zero personal contact with any Arabs. Only the ones in Algeria that those fanatics see as "enemies". Ironically extremism is most prevalent in that province in all of Algeria. Either you have extremists or extreme anti-Muslims. There is rarely any middle ground.

The guy is so dumb that he does not know that Arabs and Berbers are closely related people (cousins), belonging to the same language family (Afro-Asiatic), geography and phenotypes. In the Maghreb there is no pure Arab or Berber. Most are Arab-Berber mixtures.

All the Maghrebi users on PDF understand this as they are educated people and not obsessed fanatics.

Not only that 90% of all Maghrebis identity as Arabs and 99% of the world as well. Most people do not know what a Berber is. No matter how much he barks he will be considered as an Arab by 99% of the world's 7.6 billion big population.






10 + million Banu Hilal descendants in Algeria alone:

Anyway just a single visit to any Arab forum or even social media like Youtube, will quickly show the warm brotherly ties and mutual respect between Saudi Arabians and Algerians.



Belmokaddem Adilfor
I'm Algerian, and my tribe came originally 1200 years ago from the Arabian Peninsula, I feel 100% Saudi <3



Los Santosfor
i love saudi arabia your brother from algeria f-word the white pigs f-word usa pigs long live to saudi arabia and alla arabs muslims countries


Adel Adel
for
حتى وإن كان هناك خلاف مع السعودية .فامنها خط احمر لكل الجزائريين وبدمنا نفديها


Rime Rima
for
تعيش السعودية و الجزائر ⁦⁩⁦⁩⁦⁩⁦⁩


Chawki Malek
for
مهما كانت الاسباب . الله له مخطط اخر ، هذه بوادر توحد المسلمين ، مهما اختلفنا يجب ان ندعم بعضنا البعض ونشجع التقارب وكفانا تخوين احدنا للاخر ، الماضي ماضي ، لا نريد خسارة السعودية و لا خسارة مصر ولا خشارة الجزائر لان العدو الخارجي يتقرب في الزاوية



Assam Man
for
الحمد لله على كل حال المهم كي رحبو خاوتي باهد الظيف بارك الله فيهم حمترو وجوهنا ومرحبا بيهم في كل ولاية يجدون حسن الظيافة


gamer dz
for
اشتركو في قناتي اخواني الكرام ارجوكم نحن العرب نساعد بعضنا بعض احبكم ❤❤❤❤ و انا عربي و ليس امازيغي

I feel sad for the small minority of Kabyle people who still, in this day and age (2018) do not understand that Arabs and Berbers are brothers and cousins (closely related people, same language family (Afro-Asiatic - the oldest in the world), that there are no pure Kabyle (never were - Semitic Phoenicians, Carthaginians, Germanic Vandals, Romans, Africans (hence the African admixture in Maghrebis) etc. Luckily those, mainly few diaspora Kabyle, are insignificant (a drop in the ocean) but if reading their nonsense (also aimed at other Algerians and Algeria itself) a foreigner could quickly believe that there is some kind of great hostility which in reality is non-existent.

Their national hero and most famous contemporary personality (past many centuries at least) is called Abdelkader ibn Muhieddine al-Hasani. Otherwise known as Emir Abdelkader (عبد القادر الجزائري). A national hero of Hijazi origin.





Many Adnanites settled in Algeria including Quraysh and 5 clans of Ghatafan so the close resemblance is not surprising.


Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa

"In a recent publication, Bosch et al. (2001) reported on Y-chromosome variation in populations from northwestern (NW) Africa and the Iberian peninsula. They observed a high degree of genetic homogeneity among the NW African Y chromosomes of Moroccan Arabs, Moroccan Berbers, and Saharawis, leading the authors to hypothesize that “the Arabization and Islamization of NW Africa, starting during the 7th century ad, … [were] cultural phenomena without extensive genetic replacement” (p. 1023). H71 (Eu10) was found to be the second-most-frequent haplogroup in that area. Following the hypothesis of Semino et al. (2000), the authors suggested that this haplogroup had spread out from the Middle East with the Neolithic wave of advance. Our recent findings (Nebel et al. 2000, 2001), however, suggest that the majority of Eu10 chromosomes in NW Africa are due to recent gene flow caused by the migration of Arabian tribes in the first millennium of the Common Era (ce).

In the sample of NW Africans (Bosch et al. 2001), 16 (9.1%) of the 176 Y chromosomes studied were of Eu10 (H71 on a haplogroup 9 background). Of these 16 chromosomes, 14 formed a compact microsatellite network: 7 individuals shared a single haplotype, and the haplotypes of the other 7 were one or two mutational steps removed. This low diversity may be indicative of a recent founder effect. Where did these chromosomes come from?

The highest frequency of Eu10 (30%–62.5%) has been observed so far in various Moslem Arab populations in the Middle East (Semino et al. 2000; Nebel et al. 2001). The most frequent Eu10 microsatellite haplotype in NW Africans is identical to a modal haplotype (DYS19-14, DYS388-17, DYS390-23, DYS391-11, DYS392-11, DYS393-12) of Moslem Arabs who live in a small area in the north of Israel, the Galilee (Nebel et al. 2000). This haplotype, which is present in the Galilee at 18.5%, was termed the modal haplotype of the Galilee (MH Galilee) (Nebel et al. 2000). Notably, it is absent from two distinct non-Arab Middle Eastern populations, Jews and Muslim Kurds, both of whom have significant Eu10 frequencies—18% and 12%, respectively (Nebel et al. 2001). Interestingly, this modal haplotype is also the most frequent haplotype (11 [∼41%] of 27 individuals) in the population from the town of Sena, in Yemen (Thomas et al. 2000). Its single-step neighbor is the most common haplotype of the Yemeni Hadramaut sample (5 [∼10%] of 49 chromosomes; Thomas et al. 2000). The presence of this particular modal haplotype at a significant frequency in three separate geographic locales (NW Africa, the Southern Levant, and Yemen) makes independent genetic-drift events unlikely.

It should be noted that the Yemeni samples (Thomas et al. 2000) were not typed for the binary markers (p12f2 and M172) that define Eu10. However, both Yemeni modal haplotypes are present on a haplogroup background compatible with Eu10. These haplotypes carry a DYS388 allele with a high number of repeats (i.e., 17). High repeat numbers of DYS388, ⩾15, were found to occur almost exclusively on Hg9, which comprises Eu9 and Eu10. Furthermore, in a sample of a six Middle Eastern populations, chromosomes with 17 repeats are frequent (40%) in Eu10 and rare (7%) in Eu9 (Nebel et al. 2001).

The term “Arab,” as well as the presence of Arabs in the Syrian desert and the Fertile Crescent, is first seen in the Assyrian sources from the 9th century bce (Eph'al 1984). Originally referring to nomads of central and northern Arabia, the term “Arabs” later came to include the sedentary population of the south, which had its own language and culture. The term thus covers two different stocks that became linguistically and culturally unified yet retained consciousness of their discrete origins (Grohmann et al. 1960; Rentz 1960; Caskel 1966, pp. 19–47; Goldziher 1967, pp. 45–97, 164–190; Beeston 1995; also see Peters 1999). Migrations of southern Arabian tribes northwards have been recorded mainly since the 3d century ce. These tribes settled in various places in central and northern Arabia, as well as in the Fertile Crescent, including areas that are now part of Israel (Dussaud 1955; Ricci 1984). The emergence of Islam in the 7th century ce furthered the unification of the Arabian tribal populations. This unified Arab-Islamic community engaged in a large movement of expansion, the Fertile Crescent and Egypt being the first areas to have been conquered. It is very difficult to trace the tribal composition of the Muslim armies, but it is known that tribes of Yemeni origin formed the bulk of those Muslim contingents that conquered Egypt in the middle of the 7th century ce. Egypt was the primary base for raids further west into the Maghrib. The conquest of North Africa was difficult and took a few decades to complete (Abun-Nasr 1987). The region was militarily and administratively attached to Egypt until the beginning of the 8th century ce. Arab tribes of northern origin entered North Africa as well, both as troops and as migrants. A major wave of migration of such tribes, the Banu Hilal and Banu Sulaym, occurred during the 11th century ce (Abun-Nasr 1987). Thus, the Arabs, both southern (Yemeni) and northern, added to the heterogeneous Maghribi ethnic melting pot.

Little is known of the origins of the indigenous population of the Maghrib, the Berbers, except that they have always been a composite people. After the 8th century ce, a process of Arabization affected the bulk of the Berbers, while the Arab-Islamic culture and population absorbed local elements as well. Under the unifying framework of Islam, on the one hand, and as a result of the Arab settlement, on the other, a fusion took place that resulted in a new ethnocultural entity all over the Maghrib. In addition, Berber tribes sometimes claimed Arab descent in order to enhance their prestige. For example, the Berber nomadic tribe of the western Sahara, the Lamtuna, claimed descent from one of the South Arabian eponyms, Himyar. One of the chiefs of this Berber tribe, Lamtuna, is sometimes referred to as Saharawi, meaning “one of the nomads” or “one who comes from the Sahara” (Ibn al-Athir 1898, p. 462; Ibn Khallikan 1972, pp. 113, 128–129; Lewicki 1986). In Arabic sources, however, the name Saharawi is seldom used and does not seem to refer to a specific genealogical group. In light of these historical data, it is not surprising to find, among the Berbers and contemporary Saharawis of northern Africa, Y chromosomes that may have been introduced by recurrent waves of invaders from the Arabian Peninsula.

These documented historical events, together with the finding of a particular Eu10 haplotype in Yemenis, Palestinians, and NW Africans, are suggestive of a recent common origin of these chromosomes. Remarkably, the only non-Arabs in whom this haplotype has been observed to date are the Berbers (Bosch et al. 2001). It appears that the Eu10 chromosome pool in NW Africa is derived not only from early Neolithic dispersions but also from recent expansions from the Arabian peninsula.

American Society of Human Genetics"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC379148/


Also I was not aware of their being an "Arab" or "North African" genome considering the fact that all haplogroups predate all living ethnic groups by millennia and given that all ethnic groups are social constructs.

Anyway this runs contrary to ground realities which show the following:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)

afip85.png


Basically across the entire Arab world (which shares a millennia long common Semitic and Afro-Asiatic history and ancestry that predates the Neolithic period and all existing ethnic groups in the Arab world) the same haplogroups are found. The only difference is their frequency but Arabs cluster with each other more than any other people on all genetic tests which is not strange given history.


Genetics

Haplogroup J and E1b1b are the most frequent Y-DNA haplogroups in the Arab world. E1b1b is the most frequent paternal clade among the populations in the western part of the Arab world (Maghreb, Nile Valley and Horn of Africa), whereas haplogroup J is the most frequent paternal clade toward the east (Arabian peninsula and Near East). Other less common haplogroups are R1a, R1b, G, I, L and T.[304][305][306][307][308][309][310][311][312][313][314][315][316]


J-M267

J-M172

E-M215

Listed here are the human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroups in Arabian peninsula, Mashriq/Levant, Maghreb and Nile Valley.[317][318][319][320][321][322][323] Yemeni Arabs J(82.3%), E1b1b (12.9%) and E1b1a (3.2%).[324][325] Saudi Arabs J1 (58%), E1b1b(7.6%), E1b1a (7.6%), R1a (5.1%), T (5.1%), G (3.2%) and L (1.9%).[326][327] Emirati Arabs J (45.1%), E1b1b (11.6%), R1a (7.3%), E1b1a (5.5%), T (4.9%), R1b (4.3%) and L (3%).[324] Omani Arabs J (47.9%), E1b1b (15.7%), R1a (9.1%), T (8.3%), E1b1a (7.4%), R1b (1.7%), G (1.7%) and L (0.8%).[328] Qatari Arabs J (66.7%), R1a (6.9%), E1b1b (5.6%), E1b1a (2.8%), G (2.8%) and L (2.8%).[329][330] Lebanese Arabs J (45.2%), E1b1b (25.8%), R1a (9.7%), R1b (6.4%), G, I and I (3.2%), (3.2%), (3.2%).[331] Syrian Arabs J (58.3%),[332][333] E1b1b (12.0%), I (5.0%), R1a (10.0%) and R1b 15.0%.[331][333] Palestinian Arabs J (55.2%), E1b1b (20.3%), R1b (8.4%), I(6.3%), G (7%), R1a and T (1.4%), (1.4%).[334][335] Jordanian Arabs J (43.8%), E1b1b (26%), R1b (17.8%), G (4.1%), I (3.4%) and R1a (1.4%).[336] Iraqi Arabs J (50.6%), E1b1b (10.8%), R1b (10.8%), R1a (6.9%) and T (5.9%).[337][338] Egyptian Arabs E1b1b (36.7%) and J (32%), G (8.8%), T (8.2% R1b (4.1%), E1b1a (2.8%) and I(0.7%).[319][339] Sudanese Arabs J (47.1%), E1b1b (16.3%), R1b (15.7%) and I (3.13%).[340][341] Moroccan Arabs E1b1b (75.5%) and J1 (20.4%).[342][343] Tunisian ArabsE1b1b (49.3%), J1 (35.8%), R1b (6.8%) and E1b1a (1.4%).[344] Algerian Arabs E1b1b (54%), J1 (35%), R1b (13%).[344] Libyan Arabs E1b1b (35.88%), J (30.53%), E1b1a (8.78%), G (4.20%), R1a/R1b (3.43%) and E (1.53%).[345][346]

The mtDNA haplogroup J has been observed at notable frequencies among overall populations in the Arab world.[347] The maternal clade R0 reaches its highest frequency in the Arabian peninsula,[348] while K and T(specifically subclade T2) is more common in the Levant.[347] In the Nile Valley and Horn of Africa, haplogroups N1and M1;[348] in the Maghreb, haplogroups H1 and U6 are more significant.[349]

There are four principal West Eurasian autosomal DNA components that characterize the populations in the Arab world: the Arabian, Levantine, Coptic and Maghrebi components.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs#Genetics



Haplogroup J and E are those that dominate the Arab world and surprise, surprise, those two haplogroups are found at its highest frequencies in all as in all, Arab countries and populations.

Not only that almost everyone in the Arab world identifies as an Arab and follows Arab culture, excluding closely related fellow Semitic and Afro-Asiatic peoples, which is the most important thing, even if we assume that there was no genetic relation, which is obviously the case.

We share language, Islamic history as well as ancient pre-Islamic history, ancestry, culture, religion (s), geography, cuisine, climate and we look alike, excluding our Afro-Arab minorities.

I guess more than 99% of all other ethnic groups.

Case closed.



@HannibalBarca @Hamilcar @SALMAN F

Anyway this stateless guy (fanatical troll) can claim to be a pure Saharan Toureg. For all I care he can identify as a Papuan. There are 500 million Arabs out there and the Maghreb will not erase 1400 years of history nor kill off 99% of its people (those with Arab ancestry or partial Arab ancestry = basically everyone).

As a side note the mentally ill guy called a Pakistani woman on PDF ( @Hiraa ) a whore directly in French for her praising the beauty and historical depth of Saudi Arabia (as numerous users did) in a thread that I created about tourism in KSA, opportunities and challenges. Unmotivated, just to derail a thread.

Post 47 below:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/tour...-and-challenges-open-discussion.564089/page-4

I suggest reporting it.


That is his level and not the first of such comments.

Post 21 in this thread below:

Admit what? How can you hate somebody that you don't even freaking know? And Can you say that I hate arabs, when we share blood and culture... For a supposed learned individual, you are really lacking in social skills. Sometimes, you act like an imbecile..and you are showing it here...

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/9-11-the-rothschild-zionist-connection.295272/page-2

The guy is mentally ill. As in really mentally ill. He is known as the "village idiot" on the Arab section for a reason.

Last time I checked the Arabs conquered North Africa and the Berbers today are crying like babies.

The Berbers are no different than the Kurds. Inferior and a bunch of crying bitches who cant hack it that the Arabs took their women.

Pretty pathetic you got conquered deal with it.

:lol:

Why can't you just say you're a mix of Arabs and Berbers? Your country doesn't need to be mono-cultural.

They are. Most Algerians have 40-50% of their DNA from Arabia. The remaining 30-40 is from the Middle East (Arab/Semitic Near East) as well as Berbers are originally from the Middle East. The phenotypes are also more or less the same if not the same.

I currently live in Western Europe. I have lived/studied in 3 Western European countries (France, Denmark and Spain). Have family in London as well.

Maghrebi Arabs are not different allies. Rather they are mostly indistinguishable from us "Eastern Arabs".

It's the same composition of demographies.

City dwellers, farmers (villagers) and nomadic populations (traditionally).

They too have Afro-Arabs and admixture from Southern Europe as we Eastern Arabs.



None would look apart in any Arab country.





For God's sake their national hero is an Hijazi Arab by blood, lineage, appearance and culture.



Most Maghrebis are Arab-Berber mixtures. There are no pure Berbers outside of nomadic Black Tuareg Berbers in Southern Algeria, Mali and Niger. Not only that Arabs and Berbers are closely related people, inhabit the same geography and are part of the same linguistic family (Afro-Asiatic).

We are brothers and sisters and outside of some animosity towards Arabs from fanatical stateless Kabyle cretins like the thread starter Ceylal and some racist Arabs, there are no problems whatsoever. Rather the contrary.

@SALMAN F
 
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No, a mix is when you have multiple different cultures. It doesn't necessitate that the different cultures all exist in all equal proportion to each other.
Per your definition, if I take it word by word, our mix is any thing but Arab..All you have to do is read the North African history..Arabs are le least mix that came in contact with North Africa.



I'm pretty sure that just like other North Africans (and most Muslims near or in the Middle East), Algerians do have small amounts of ancestry from the core Arab countries.
Négligeable..more of us in them then their in us...



You come from a culture that speaks Arabic (albeit a butchered version of it), that makes you Arab.
That is a stupid ...very stupid deduction..Well, West Algerians have a lot Spanish..the center a lot of French, the East Italian And Turkish..in their dialect , does it make them Spaniard, French , Italians or Turks....



Considering the contempt you've shown for other Muslims in the past, I'm dubious about how much of Islam you take seriously.
No very much...mine, that came from my ancestor, is all about love , kindness, humility ...yours is about blood, death, mayhem..same of the one hyenas will believe if they had a religion.
 
Per your definition

My definition is the actual definition, yours is incorrect.

more of us in them then their in us...

That's just laughably incorrect.

Well, West Algerians have a lot Spanish..the center a lot of French, the East Italian And Turkish..in their dialect , does it make them Spaniard, French , Italians or Turks....

No, because they don't speak any of those languages, and even if they did, it would be an adopted culture since such languages are not (AFAIK) part of the native culture of Algeria, unlike Arabic.

No very much...mine, that came from my ancestor

Didn't you say you were Muslim? You do realise that Islam came from Arabia right? So you saying that Islam comes from your ancestors is you admitting you're an Arab.

same of the one hyenas will believe if they had a religion.

That's funny considering you claim to believe in the same religion as me.
 
Didn't you say you were Muslim? You do realise that Islam came from Arabia right? So you saying that Islam comes from your ancestors is you admitting you're an Arab.
Islam was spread in North Africa and Southern Europe by Berbers, not by Arabs..Being Muslim is not an affiliation to Arabs ...we just share a religion that is a lot different than theirs...



That's funny considering you claim to believe in the same religion as me.
Mine is quite different than yours..Mine is tolerant, yours is brutal, mine is all about love thy neihbors, your is about death to my neighbors...Mine, God gave us a way to better our lives, yours about to destroy life and anything living on this earth..
 
And the Berbers received said religion from the Arabs.
Not from Arabs, from paid mercenaries..Islam was a very violent religion to this day.



I'll say it again, you literally claim to belong to the same religion as me. That alone makes your statement ridiculous.
I belong to an Islam that is totally different than yours..Yours is stuck in its bloody past, mine is modern...is peaceful, yours is about surrendering, killing, butchering in the Name of Allah...Mine preach love and peace in the name of Allah..My Allah and yours are totally the opposite of each other as Kane and his Abel...
No freaking comparison!
 
Not from Arabs, from paid mercenaries..Islam was a very violent religion to this day.




I belong to an Islam that is totally different than yours..Yours is stuck in its bloody past, mine is modern...is peaceful, yours is about surrendering, killing, butchering in the Name of Allah...Mine preach love and peace in the name of Allah..My Allah and yours are totally the opposite of each other as Kane and his Abel...
No freaking comparison!

Which Violent type of Islam are you speaking of? Sunni?
What do you mean by "Mine"? are you not Sunni? So Ahmadis then? or Soufis? I don't think you are Shia...
 

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