DF-21D "carrier killer" missile for Pakistan?

[ZeEa5KPul]

Here's a question, what does Pakistan need a medium range AShBM for? It doesn't have the sensors to use the missile to its full capability. Something shorter ranged like the CM401 would be better

China Reveals Short-Range Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile Designed To Dodge Enemy Defenses

The Chinese have their own plans to use the missiles on land and at sea, but also hope to court foreign buyers.

www.thedrive.com

 

[White and Green with M/S]

This just a hypothetical scenario

"The Dong Feng-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), which can accurately strike aircraft carrier 1,500 kilometres away. An improved version, the Dong Feng-26, targets aircraft carriers 3,000-4,000 kilometres away". 'The DF-21 system has a warhead capable of Mach 10. With speeds of up to Mach 10 during the terminal phase, the DF-21D is the fastest-ever MRBM. It is capable of outperforming current US missile defence systems such as the AEGIS ballistic missile defence system".

If Pakistan wants to develop its own intermediate-range ballistic missile with a 1500/3000-4000 km range equivalent to China's DF-21D/DF-26 it may cost as much as 1 billion USD to develop. In other words it would be waste of money. The better option would be to buy the DF-21D/DF-26 directly from China. China's DF-21D/DF-26 missile may cost $25 million apiece.

"If Pakistan Navy inducts the DF-21D it could upset India’s clear naval advantage over Pakistan". If the DF-21D is installed at any point along the Makran coast of Pakistan between Pasni and Karachi it will be able to hit any of the Indian Navy aircraft carriers. In fact it could strike any naval target in the Persian gulf. DF-21D will dominate the whole of the Arabian Sea including the littorals of India on one flank and that of Middle east/Gulf on the other. An Indian aircraft carrier with MiG-29K and Tejas on board will not be able to blockade Pakistan if the carrier has to stay out of range of the missile. Which out be impossible considering the DF-21D 1500-km range. The DF-21D could prevent Indian or any other countries warships from approaching coastal targets like Karachi or Gwadar.

Here is the range of the DF-21D/DF-26 if installed on Pasni naval base:

DF-21D 1500-km range

View attachment 731513

DF-26 3000-km minimum range

View attachment 731514

DF-26 4000-km maximum range

View attachment 731516

Not possible that China can't give Pakistan DF-21D because China is signatory of MTC accord but may be Will give tech for DF-21 to Pakistan, and its range is also useless for Pakistan (3000-4000 km range) is not needed 500-1500 km range is more than enough for Pakistan to deter Indian Carriers in northern Arabian sea and Indian ocean

A lot of american equipmtent is overrated. American patriot defence system failed to intercept yemeni houthi missiles. Yugoslav army unit (The 3rd Brigade of the 250th Air Defense Missile Brigade) shot down the "stealth" F-117A by using soviet S-125 Neva/Pechora surface-to-air missile. The DF-21D/DF-26 poses a real threat to american aircraft carriers in the South China sea:

The National Interest: Blog

nationalinterest.org

Also if Pakistan gets the DF-21D/DF-26 its primary target would be India's aircraft carriers.

Oh bhai do research before you post you're referring oil refinery attack in S.A. for defense these oil refineries S.A did use PAC-2 which haven't any capability to intercept low RCS low flying UAVs becuase its lack the algorithms/software to detect/track and engage low flying low RCS UAVs

and 3000-4000 km range is useless for pakistan 500-1500 km range is more than enough for Pakistan to deter Indian carriers in Northern Arabian sea

 

[FuturePAF]

Better to spend resources to develop a hypersonic glider that can be put on a shaheen 1A (900 km). It’s not the missile but the warhead and its guidance/kill chain that needs developing. The risk even with a shaheen class missile is that it can be misinterpreted as a strategic attack. Long range Hypersonic cruise missiles are probably the most cost effective and salvo-able weapon that could be used against an enemy CBG, while minimizing reaction time for the enemy.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Better to spend resources to develop a hypersonic glider that can be put on a shaheen 1A (900 km). It’s not the missile but the warhead and its guidance/kill chain that needs developing. The risk even with a shaheen class missile is that it can be misinterpreted as a strategic attack. Long range Hypersonic cruise missiles are probably the most cost effective and salvo-able weapon that could be used against an enemy CBG, while minimizing reaction time for the enemy.

Yes Sir you're Right but who can give us hypersonic cruise missile China I don't think so Sir

Are you talking about BOOST GLIDE VEHICLE SIR

I think shaheen 1A already have some kind of maneuvering warhead tech in it

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes Sir you're Right but who can give us hypersonic cruise missile China I don't think so Sir

Are you talking about BOOST GLIDE VEHICLE SIR

I think shaheen 1A already have some kind of maneuvering warhead tech in it

Boost glide if we are going for a hypersonic gliding warhead. While China would probably be the partner most likely to share warhead technology, if they are fit to share, it’s not the only way to maximize what we have already developed for the shaheen 1A.

The Recent work out of a US crash program for a hypersonic warhead for an existing missile body if probably the best way to go about it. The warhead can reverse on itself to make extreme maneuvers in the terminal phase.

look into the recent “Castor 4B IRBM” test

https://twitter.com/x/status/1205571421235269643

Here's What The Army's First Ever Operational Hypersonic Missile Unit Will Look Like

The service plans to use the unit mostly for testing and evaluation, but it will be ready for combat within the next four years, if necessary.

www.thedrive.com

https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1210721/fancy-***-swerve/

P.s. you don’t need to call me sir.

 

[War Thunder]

That's why several Chinese companies are competing in the market for fast launching of preloaded satellites using solid fuel rockets from canisters usually for ICBMs. Such rockets like CZ-11 can send dozens satellites to orbits at once. Hypersonic UAVs will also help in war time by flying suborbits.

BTW there is no such a thing called China vs NATO. The US needs to fight China mostly on its own whenever a conventional war arises. Japan is not qualified to help in such a war as China wouldn't mind throwing some H-bombs to it for historical reason, North Korea will look after South Korea, Iran will block the gulf and Russia will enter Ukraine as implied by their recent movements.

The US military will have to travel long distances to fight directly against the other 2 super powers at the same time in the next conventional war or even a nuclear war.

True, but I don't think the English and French won't follow US into the madness.
I don't know about Aussies and how crazy they are in their clinging to US policies but all of these countries might just see the need to jump into the war, knowing if the US loses then they are next.

 

[Abid123]

All i can say is LOL. This would give pakistan huge advantage over india its like 5x bigger threat then S400. And even China wont allow it because they dont want to upset economic deals with India let alone west opposition. Pakistan can only have it in a wild dream.

S-400 is not actually such a big threat. Pakistan could easily counter the S-400 by buying the HQ-9C. This will make make no fly zone for both countries.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Hi,

2-3 sqdrn's of JH7A's equipped with the right kind of AShM can do that job very well.

Think its time to give this idea a break. There is a reason why its not in PAF service despite some people's deepest wishes.

 

[MastanKhan]

Think its time to give this idea a break. There is a reason why its not in PAF service despite some people's deepest wishes.

View attachment 738471View attachment 738472

Hi,

"It is the man behind the machine"---what happened to that mantra.

Alike many others---you want to talk and have no say of your own---and have NO understanding of the design and utility of why a machine was designed the way it was

The design & flight parameters of the JH7A are totally different to that of the SU30MKK's.

The SU's have not been able to compete with the JH7A's---ever heard the term " horses for courses---".

What was so great about the A-5 Fantan---or the F7PG?

 

[ZY-CN-CA]

please google C4ISR - it represents billions of dollars of investment in space , surface and sub surface assets which is beyond the reach of many developing nations.

may be they can use chinese C4ISR..we op 21D together?that will be save money

That's why several Chinese companies are competing in the market for fast launching of preloaded satellites using solid fuel rockets from canisters usually for ICBMs. Such rockets like CZ-11 can send dozens satellites to orbits at once. Hypersonic UAVs will also help in war time by flying suborbits.

BTW there is no such a thing called China vs NATO. The US needs to fight China mostly on its own whenever a conventional war arises. Japan is not qualified to help in such a war as China wouldn't mind throwing some H-bombs to it for historical reason, North Korea will look after South Korea, Iran will block the gulf and Russia will enter Ukraine as implied by their recent movements.

The US military will have to travel long distances to fight directly against the other 2 super powers at the same time in the next conventional war or even a nuclear war.

emm..want ask,Five Eyes Alliance. . not dispatch soldiers?

 

[dbc]

may be they can use chinese C4ISR..we op 21D together?that will be save money

emm..want ask,Five Eyes Alliance. . not dispatch soldiers?

China does not trust Pakistan enough to risk potentially compromising its entire network.
Edit: I don't know if Pakistan will risk being at the mercy of China either.

 

[khanasifm]

Think its time to give this idea a break. There is a reason why its not in PAF service despite some people's deepest wishes.

View attachment 738471View attachment 738472

Thank you for killing the Jh-7 rattling on the forum [emoji23]

 

[White and Green with M/S]

This just a hypothetical scenario

"The Dong Feng-21D anti-ship ballistic missile (ASBM), which can accurately strike aircraft carrier 1,500 kilometres away. An improved version, the Dong Feng-26, targets aircraft carriers 3,000-4,000 kilometres away". 'The DF-21 system has a warhead capable of Mach 10. With speeds of up to Mach 10 during the terminal phase, the DF-21D is the fastest-ever MRBM. It is capable of outperforming current US missile defence systems such as the AEGIS ballistic missile defence system".

If Pakistan wants to develop its own intermediate-range ballistic missile with a 1500/3000-4000 km range equivalent to China's DF-21D/DF-26 it may cost as much as 1 billion USD to develop. In other words it would be waste of money. The better option would be to buy the DF-21D/DF-26 directly from China. China's DF-21D/DF-26 missile may cost $25 million apiece.

"If Pakistan Navy inducts the DF-21D it could upset India’s clear naval advantage over Pakistan". If the DF-21D is installed at any point along the Makran coast of Pakistan between Pasni and Karachi it will be able to hit any of the Indian Navy aircraft carriers. In fact it could strike any naval target in the Persian gulf. DF-21D will dominate the whole of the Arabian Sea including the littorals of India on one flank and that of Middle east/Gulf on the other. An Indian aircraft carrier with MiG-29K and Tejas on board will not be able to blockade Pakistan if the carrier has to stay out of range of the missile. Which out be impossible considering the DF-21D 1500-km range. The DF-21D could prevent Indian or any other countries warships from approaching coastal targets like Karachi or Gwadar.

Here is the range of the DF-21D/DF-26 if installed on Pasni naval base:

DF-21D 1500-km range

View attachment 731513

DF-26 3000-km minimum range

View attachment 731514

DF-26 4000-km maximum range

View attachment 731516

Not possible and useless for deterrent, but if China can give the DF-21 tech to Pakistan, it is possible to upgrade our SHAHEEN-1 or SHAHEEN-2 but we have no satellites to update its MID course flights, without satellite guidness its become less and less accurate for Anti ship missions

 

[applesauce]

you cant just buy the DF-21D...

The reason is that for it to be effective you need the whole ecosystem of sensors. 2000km is worthless if you cant detect anything out that far. China has an entire system in place,, satellites, drones(both ultra high flying for wide scans and lower flying for precision), forward vessels, subs, to detect and allow the DF-21D to target ships 1000s of kms away. if youre only going to use it near your own shores then you might as well opt for far cheaper shorter ranged missiles.

 

[Abid123]

Instead of going for DF 21 D. Pakistan should develop its own and not just Anti Ship Ballistic Missiles but also ICBM and SLBM.

We absolutely need a 2nd strike capability. For that we must have SSBN'S. SSBN can be said to be the most lethal weapon system created in the history of mankind. We should be able to strike anywhere on the planet with a nuclear strike. I know that some people are going to disagree with me. But remember: Expect the best, prepare for the worst.

The best and cheapest option if we can is to buy two SSBN's from China. You have the Jin class submarine also known as "Type 094". The "Type 094" can carry 12 JL-2s. "is a Chinese second-generation intercontinental-range submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM)". The JL-2 has a maximum range of 7200 km. It is MIRV capable. It also has a single megaton blast yield. Can have smaller blast yield in MIRV. The unit cost is 750 million USD. So two Type 094's should cost Pakistan 1.5 bilion USD. Maybe little higher.

Here is a picture of the JL-2's range if fired close from Pakistan's coast. It is launched between Pasni and Ormara.

Another option not available right now would be the "Type 096". The "Type 096 would be China's equilavent to Americas "Ohio-class submarine". The Type 096 would be able to carry 24 JL-3 SLBM. Not only will it carry twice the amount of ICBM's, but the range of JL-3 will be far longer. According to most sources the JL-3 will have a maximum range of 12000 km. Two Type 096 will in total carry 48 JL-3 ICBM's. Twice that of two type 094 with also far longer range as mentioned earlier. Two Type 096 equipped with JL-3 would be far better for PN rather than 2 Type 094 with JL-2. China is part of the MTCR so it cant export missiles beyond the range of 300 km. But I am sure Pakistan and China can find a "way".

Here you can see the range of the JL-3. Also launched between Pasni and Ormara.