'Designed In India' The Focus As Defence Procurement Rules Change

[Water Car Engineer]

'Designed in India' will be emphasised, as this will not only help the country retain Intellectual Property Rights, but also build an "eco- system" for manufacturing defence equipment, it is felt.

To continue with Prime Minister Narendra Modi's Make in India push, under the new rules, indigenously made defence equipment must have at least 40 per cent Indian components. If the design is not Indian, 60 per cent of its components must be Indian.

To encourage research and development in the private sector, the department of defence production will bear 90 per cent of design and development cost of major systems.

Small and medium scale industries will be given from Rs. 3 crore to 10 crore in funding for design and development and contract within 24 months. "If we cannot give them the contract, then we propose to refund their entire cost," the minister said.

"I will try to ensure that at least 30% of our procurement is sourced from them. Defence public sector companies have been instructed to source as much as possible from small and medium industries," he added.

'Designed In India' The Focus As Defence Procurement Rules Change

 

[banvanaxl]

'Designed In India' The Focus As Defence Procurement Rules Change

This PM knows his shit. Beef ban and all such idiosyncrasies aside, he is a man with a very clear and pragmatic view of what should be and the road to get there.

Salut' ..

 

[Dungeness]

Los of "xxxx in India" type of slogans coming out these days, sounds more like Indian version of "Great Leap Forward". Let's take one step at a time, my friend, and not to put wagon before the horse. Without a extensive experience in manufacturing, how are you going to design a good product?

 

[Nilgiri]

sounds more like Indian version of "Great Leap Forward"

We are not about to tell our farmers to melt down their pots and pans to make useless scrap "steel" to pad up one years production...and then watch 10's of millions of them starve to death from the inevitable famine while continuing exports of grain to try hide the grandiose disaster from the world.

So no, its not anywhere in the category of the great leap forward.

The proliferation of such programs simply illustrates how much was not touched by previous administrations...even after the so called reforms of the 90s.

 

[Dungeness]

We are not about to tell our farmers to melt down their pots and pans to make useless scrap "steel" to pad up one years production...and then watch 10's of millions of them starve to death from the inevitable famine while continuing exports of grain to try hide the grandiose disaster from the world.

So no, its not anywhere in the category of the great leap forward.

The proliferation of such programs simply illustrates how much was not touched by previous administrations...even after the so called reforms of the 90s.

In the essence, the idea is the same though. I am not going to argue with you the death toll of the consequence of the "great leap forward", as we don't have any reliable data to base on. In terms of life expectancy, China has been always on top since 1949. That may tell you something.

Back to the topic, if you can not finish what you have started, like small civilian airplane "Saras", what is the point of emphasis on "design in India" right now? Like Chinese people always say “Stretch your legs too far, your balls would get hurt".

 

[Abingdonboy]

Los of "xxxx in India" type of slogans coming out these days, sounds more like Indian version of "Great Leap Forward". Let's take one step at a time, my friend, and not to put wagon before the horse. Without a extensive experience in manufacturing, how are you going to design a good product?

If it was easy, everyone would do it. Everyone has to start somewhere, right? India can't be a global power without significant domestic manufacturing capabilties- especially in the defence realm. By 2025-30 India will be the 3rd largest economy in the world, by then it needs to have lost the "world's largest defence importer" tag wouldn't you agree? These things don't happen overnight- you need to invest now for results decades down the line.

Besides, India is not a total newcomer to this game- it has some world class labs/institutions that have been stunted by chronic underinvestment over the decades, it's time for the shackles to come off...

 

[Nilgiri]

In the essence, the idea is the same though.

No its not. There is nothing essentially the same about either.

One was a reckless, unparalleled misguided and forced wholesale purge of an entire peasant class.....because some little red book guy decided he personally knew better than common sense and rational, scientific thought.

The other is simply a program to develop and cultivate more home grown talent through market driven forces by capital risk mitigation.....a tried and tested method worldwide.

China has been always on top since 1949. That may tell you something.

Yet China is the one that experienced this massive famine by its own doing (India never experienced such a terrible mass famine like that post independence or even in its entire history).

You are right, the true number is not known probably because it will make the Holocaust seem like a picnic. To try achieve the steel production of Britain, you ended up seeing the population of Britain die in China....and nothing to show for it other than a weakened embarrased leader who started up another disastrous revolution later because of his paranoia stemming from this grandiose failure.

Back to the topic, if you can not finish what you have started, like small civilian airplane "Saras", what is the point of emphasis on "design in India" right now?

There are plenty of things that we started and have finished excellently. Why pick on just the Saras? Why not look at the ISRO, BARC and plenty of other purely govt seeded projects (without even looking at private players today)..

Whats it matter to you anyway? You only expose either your disdain for anything India does or you highlight your fear about its long term strategy that is commencing now. Either way its a weak irrelevant hand you are showing.

 

[nang2]

Los of "xxxx in India" type of slogans coming out these days, sounds more like Indian version of "Great Leap Forward". Let's take one step at a time, my friend, and not to put wagon before the horse. Without a extensive experience in manufacturing, how are you going to design a good product?

I get what you meant. But your example isn't a good example. If they don't get it, don't try to push it. It is not worth the effort.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

In the essence, the idea is the same though. I am not going to argue with you the death toll of the consequence of the "great leap forward", as we don't have any reliable data to base on. In terms of life expectancy, China has been always on top since 1949. That may tell you something.

Back to the topic, if you can not finish what you have started, like small civilian airplane "Saras", what is the point of emphasis on "design in India" right now? Like Chinese people always say “Stretch your legs too far, your balls would get hurt".

The article would have explained you. The previous govt wanted Indian designed products with more than 80% Indian components, which is really tough to make a product cheaper in a globalised world.

U design the product in India, source 60% of parts from outside. Designed outside? SOurce 60% components from India. A clear benefactor will be India. They also propose to give back the cost of R&D

 

[Abingdonboy]

U design the product in India, source 60% of parts from outside. Designed outside? SOurce 60% components from India. A clear benefactor will be India. They also propose to give back the cost of R&D

Basicaly how every heavy manufacturing company in the world (regardless of industry) works. Even Boeing, Airbus, Sikorsky etc have manufacturing plants in India for their products such as the 787, CH-47, P-8, S-92, C-295, A319 etc etc


Heck, what does it say on every single Mac, Ipod, Iphone etc:

 

[dadeechi]

Los of "xxxx in India" type of slogans coming out these days, sounds more like Indian version of "Great Leap Forward". Let's take one step at a time, my friend, and not to put wagon before the horse. Without a extensive experience in manufacturing, how are you going to design a good product?

When you can have a country which manufactures with out any design capability then it is certainly possible for India to design something without having a manufacturing base.

Hint: Generally speaking Engineering departments don't know jack about manufacturing. That is always the domain of Manufacturing department.

In the essence, the idea is the same though. I am not going to argue with you the death toll of the consequence of the "great leap forward", as we don't have any reliable data to base on. In terms of life expectancy, China has been always on top since 1949. That may tell you something.

Back to the topic, if you can not finish what you have started, like small civilian airplane "Saras", what is the point of emphasis on "design in India" right now? Like Chinese people always say “Stretch your legs too far, your balls would get hurt".

Let me simplify for you

Project 1 :

Indian Design - India owns IPR
Indian Components - 40%
Foreign components - 60%

Project 2

Foreign Design - Foreign IPR
Indian Components - 60%
Foreign components - 40%


Project 3 (based on learnings from Projects 1 and 2)
Indian Design - India owns IPR
Indian Components - 100% (40% from Project 1 and 60% from Project 2)

 

[Dungeness]

If it was easy, everyone would do it. Everyone has to start somewhere, right? India can't be a global power without significant domestic manufacturing capabilties- especially in the defence realm. By 2025-30 India will be the 3rd largest economy in the world, by then it needs to have lost the "world's largest defence importer" wouldn't you agree? These things don't happen overnight- you need to invest now for results decades down the line.

Besides, India is not a total newcomer to this game- it has some world class labs/institutions that have been stunted by chronic underinvestment over the decades, it's time for the shackles to come off...

I agree everyone has to start somewhere, and I am not against the idea of "design in India". But everything should be based on previous word and a solid foundation instead of a slogan. All those slogan after slogan remind me of old days of China that had campaign after campaign. Some member tries to turn this into China famine discussion, and I will respectfully avoid.

As far as we know, in the past 30-40 years, India started many ambitious advanced defense projects, but met with tough reality and could not finish them on time and in spec. It is either your designs were not based on realistic goals, or your manufacturing capacity did not measure up to your design specifications.

Yes, the shortage of fund may contribute to the problem, but if you were able to turn all those "ToT" that you have spent a fortune on into your designing skills and manufacturing know-hows, "design in India" will come naturally without a slogan. So far, we have not seen many indigenous defense design effort turned into final defense products for India, which indicates there is a broken link between your designs and final products, which obviously is manufacturing.

We have not seen what "ToT" did for India, and we don't know how they benefit Indian defense designers. If your engineers can not digest what are transferred and subsequently improve upon the originals, what is the point of "design in India" slogan? I don't know what ToT means in India, it is merely "know-how" or "why so".

Will you put a newly graduated engineer who has not manufacturing experience in the position of chief designer? That's why all Chinese engineers will have to work in production floors for years before assuming designing roles. There is no easy way out.

A design can only be as good as your ability to make it. Considering the slogan of "Make In India" just came out a few months ago, the new slogan of "Design in India" is pointless.

 

[desimorty]

In the essence, the idea is the same though. I am not going to argue with you the death toll of the consequence of the "great leap forward", as we don't have any reliable data to base on. In terms of life expectancy, China has been always on top since 1949. That may tell you something.

Back to the topic, if you can not finish what you have started, like small civilian airplane "Saras", what is the point of emphasis on "design in India" right now? Like Chinese people always say “Stretch your legs too far, your balls would get hurt".

Source: 'Designed In India' The Focus As Defence Procurement Rules Change

Not arguing over life span. But should note that the CCP does monitor and closely regulate census data.

 

[dadeechi]

I agree everyone has to start somewhere, and I am not against the idea of "design in India". But everything should be based on previous word and a solid foundation instead of a slogan. All those slogan after slogan remind me of old days of China that had campaign after campaign. Some member tries to turn this into China famine discussion, and I will respectfully avoid.

As far as we know, in the past 30-40 years, India started many ambitious advanced defense projects, but met with tough reality and could not finish them on time and in spec. It is either your designs were not based on realistic goals, or your manufacturing capacity did not measure up to your design specifications.

Yes, the shortage of fund may contribute to the problem, but if you were able to turn all those "ToT" that you have spent a fortune on into your designing skills and manufacturing know-hows, "design in India" will come naturally without a slogan. So far, we have not seen many indigenous defense design effort turned into final defense products for India, which indicates there is a broken link between your designs and final products, which obviously is manufacturing.

We have not seen what "ToT" did for India, and we don't know how they benefit Indian defense designers. If your engineers can not digest what are transferred and subsequently improve upon the originals, what is the point of "design in India" slogan? I don't know what ToT means in India, it is merely "know-how" or "why so".

Will you put a newly graduated engineer who has not manufacturing experience in the position of chief designer? That's why all Chinese engineers will have to work in production floors for years before assuming designing roles. There is no easy way out.

A design can only be as good as your ability to make it. Considering the slogan of "Make In India" just came out a few months ago, the new slogan of "Design in India" is pointless.

You don't get the point. Design in India is part of Make in India and is going to be a great influencer

Design in India ensures two things

1) Allows lower Making in India (MII) content as an incentive to enable India to retain the IPR

2) If the design is foreign then it disincentives the deal by forcing them to increase the Make in India content to 60%

 

[Water Car Engineer]

@Dungeness

Make in India is a umbrella term. With design in India as a part of it. Buy and Make, etc.

They've been working on ways to nurture the upcoming private firms, especially the small-medium firms who dont have deep pockets(but might have innovative ideas) get a foothold in this sector.

Yes, those "ToT" or assembling work given to various public sector companies have gone to waste. Because they never felt the need, or urgency to do anything with it, they just wait for the next contract to hit their desk. That's the culture India has nurtured all this time, this is exactly the culture India is trying to get away from.