Departure of skilled professionals

[SaadH]

The average joe can't lead an entire society -- every group of people needs leadership. Pakistan's middle class put their eggs in the Imran Khan basket for one last go around, and they saw it all fail spectacularly. So, there's no hope unless and until a new elite rises up, cleans house, and builds an environment that nurtures innovation and growth.

Not quite, it was succeeding until the colonial sepoys saw progress as an existential threat and decided to nuke the whole d@mn thing...

 

[General Dong]

May work for 2 million, what about 240 million?

Eventually it will reach a boiling point, anybody's guess what will happen then.

 

[JX-1]

My issue is why do Pakistanis choose to leave instead of confronting their issues head on? Compared to India and Bangladesh, which do have high immigration but less compared to Pakistan when stacked against total population.

There is corruption & misgovernance in Bangladesh & India too, but people there solve their problems. There is high productivity & exports in Indian & Bangladesh, increasing number of startups, etc. Basically there is enough entrepreneurs to tackle the problem of unemployment.

The US does not have the greatest economy because the jobs & industry always existed, but because entrepreneurs struggled to create industries that led to its vibrant economy.

Even the Indians that do leave always find some way to benefit India- Google or Microsoft CEO directing investment to India, etc. Meanwhile, Pakistanis abroad wouldn't dare invest at home. I understand that recent military intervention has driven them away, but this was an issue even before this period.

They are docile and do not challenge problems or even themselves. Running abroad is an easy solution to everything, as is taking bribes & stealing to low wages. Everyone is willing to run abroad, including Corp Commanders, and that's why foreign policy is decided elsewhere.

I wonder, if immigration abroad was banned, might that help correct the brain drain problem? What if it resulted in a boom in startups? Increase in productivity, exports because people have no where to run?

Incentives for qualified people abroad to come back and work in Pakistan are need, including free/subsidised plot/car, discount on bills etc.

 

[HerbertPervert]

Incentives for qualified people abroad to come back and work in Pakistan are need, including free/subsidised plot/car, discount on bills etc.

This is a great idea. What turns expats away is poor sanitation, no electricity, poor schools, poor internet service, poor shopping choices, lack of law & order, etc. Why not build a modern small city or separate development, for expatriates, that solves these problems with luxuries at par or superior to that of western countries?

Schools can be built that match US public schools and offer standardized testing like SAT to ensure smooth transfer of students to western universities. Malls can be built to offer western brands. Postal delivery can be more efficient to facilitate e-commerce shipping. Law & order will work differently in these mini-cities, courts are set up for speedy justice. Stable electricity, new sewage & water lines, etc. Expats can be paid far more than what they earn in the west. Essentially Dubai does the same thing to attract top-notch talent.

 

[Rafael]

Incentives for qualified people abroad to come back and work in Pakistan are need, including free/subsidised plot/car, discount on bills etc.

O bhai - the treatment the overseas have got this time around from Fouj and Sanaullah - nobody is coming back for next 2 decades, rather everyone wants out.

 

[PakFactor]

The saddest part it, among these 800k people who left country in last 6 months - the most brightest and genius brain has also left the country. The guy is known as Ishaq Dar. Our Janta company had brought him in as our savior in an air force jet.

The stupidity of the military bringing that clown in an Air Force plane will forever haunt the establishment. An economic hit-man with autism is what Ishaq Dar was.

 

[fna]

BS, outsourcing productivity in india compared to a worker in US is 1/3X.

time difference. and just not having a cultural context. indian outsourced developers, working for months on my team, asked me what is a Rx ? This was a F500 company with many offices in India, not some mom and pop outsourcing place. loss of experienced folks for the next shiny thing is immeasurably high. Indian management will work the asses off their charges, only to fix things during bug cycle. throw shit against the wall to see what sticks and then try to fix it later.

This is a great idea. What turns expats away is poor sanitation, no electricity, poor schools, poor internet service, poor shopping choices, lack of law & order, etc. Why not build a modern small city or separate development, for expatriates, that solves these problems with luxuries at par or superior to that of western countries?

Schools can be built that match US public schools and offer standardized testing like SAT to ensure smooth transfer of students to western universities. Malls can be built to offer western brands. Postal delivery can be more efficient to facilitate e-commerce shipping. Law & order will work differently in these mini-cities, courts are set up for speedy justice. Stable electricity, new sewage & water lines, etc. Expats can be paid far more than what they earn in the west. Essentially Dubai does the same thing to attract top-notch talent.

its called Bahria town, built by someone so corrupt, that even the generals are employed by him.

 

[HerbertPervert]

The average joe can't lead an entire society -- every group of people needs leadership. Pakistan's middle class put their eggs in the Imran Khan basket for one last go around, and they saw it all fail spectacularly. So, there's no hope unless and until a new elite rises up, cleans house, and builds an environment that nurtures innovation and growth.

Sorry forgot to address this point. Imran Khan didn't fail to govern Pakistan. He was pretty successful with the cards given to him. The middle class that had faith in him, failed to meet his expectations. The expats also failed to meet his expectations.

Recall IK before in-power and a year into government. His initial speeches painted corrupt politicians as the source of all of Pakistan's problems and throwing them into jail would solve everything. Later, his speeches became more about the duty of every citizen to pay taxes and not endorse corruption. He even held a conference with ulama to encourage society to do good and not support corruption. Why do you think that is?

It's because IK figured out that Pakistani middle class wants a modern western country without having to pay taxes or contribute anything, even good citizen behavior, to attain that utopia. What's going to happen to a country with one of the lowest tax-GDP ratio?

Those same middle class people, including doctors, lawyers, engineers started cursing him. Traders did shutter-down strikes because they wanted to pay zero taxes. They didn't even want to declare their assets. Some started freaking out when FBR sent notices upon finding their bank transactions. Please watch videos with FBR chairman Shabbar Zaidi. It's illuminating.

My point is that the society itself is diseased. They don't even accept haram as haram. They want to pay bribes. They want to appoint their nephew in high places. They want modern infrastructure, good schools, or even fighter aircraft without paying taxes. Yet, they'll happily run from the country for a better life.

Regarding expatriates, IK was thinking that expats would come swooping down with billions of dollars. Actually, he still thinks that right now. Pakistani expats don't care for their country anywhere near as much as Indians do for theirs.

Where is the Pakistan lobby? It was practically nonexistent until IK went to jail and even then, it's just a bunch of ordinary middle class people writing letters. Nothing compared to the Indian lobby which rivals even Israel lobby.

How much funding did expats supporting IK bring? Not even $2.5 billion compared to the who knows how many billions Indians bring to India. Indians help India no matter where they go or whether BJP or Congress is in power. Pakistanis don't give a - about Pakistan even if IK is in charge

 

[ziaulislam]

My issue is why do Pakistanis choose to leave instead of confronting their issues head on? Compared to India and Bangladesh, which do have high immigration but less compared to Pakistan when stacked against total population.

There is corruption & misgovernance in Bangladesh & India too, but people there solve their problems. There is high productivity & exports in Indian & Bangladesh, increasing number of startups, etc. Basically there is enough entrepreneurs to tackle the problem of unemployment.

The US does not have the greatest economy because the jobs & industry always existed, but because entrepreneurs struggled to create industries that led to its vibrant economy.

Even the Indians that do leave always find some way to benefit India- Google or Microsoft CEO directing investment to India, etc. Meanwhile, Pakistanis abroad wouldn't dare invest at home. I understand that recent military intervention has driven them away, but this was an issue even before this period.

They are docile and do not challenge problems or even themselves. Running abroad is an easy solution to everything, as is taking bribes & stealing to low wages. Everyone is willing to run abroad, including Corp Commanders, and that's why foreign policy is decided elsewhere.

I wonder, if immigration abroad was banned, might that help correct the brain drain problem? What if it resulted in a boom in startups? Increase in productivity, exports because people have no where to run?

Because there is much more prosecution in Pakistan

Trust me being involved in APPNA you can't imagine how difficult is it to deal with bureaucracy and even doctors back home

I have seen how supportive indians are and how toxic Pakistanis are

There is no competition

Lastly check how many people are kidnapped killed and their properties confiscated in Pakistan as compared to India /bengaldesh

 

[HerbertPervert]

Because there is much more prosecution in Pakistan

Trust me being involved in APPNA you can't imagine how difficult is it to deal with bureaucracy and even doctors back home

I have seen how supportive indians are and how toxic Pakistanis are

There is no competition

Lastly check how many people are kidnapped killed and their properties confiscated in Pakistan as compared to India /bengaldesh

You would be surprised at how much corruption, persecution, and other sorts of problems exist in India. That never stops Indians from working nor does it stop India from functioning.

I'm glad you admit Pakistanis themselves are toxic. They blame corrupt leaders, the heavens, anyone but themselves. If Pakistanis need an excuse they will always find one.

 

[General Dong]

Sorry forgot to address this point. Imran Khan didn't fail to govern Pakistan. He was pretty successful with the cards given to him. The middle class that had faith in him, failed to meet his expectations. The expats also failed to meet his expectations.

Recall IK before in-power and a year into government. His initial speeches painted corrupt politicians as the source of all of Pakistan's problems and throwing them into jail would solve everything. Later, his speeches became more about the duty of every citizen to pay taxes and not endorse corruption. He even held a conference with ulama to encourage society to do good and not support corruption. Why do you think that is?

It's because IK figured out that Pakistani middle class wants a modern western country without having to pay taxes or contribute anything, even good citizen behavior, to attain that utopia. What's going to happen to a country with one of the lowest tax-GDP ratio?

Those same middle class people, including doctors, lawyers, engineers started cursing him. Traders did shutter-down strikes because they wanted to pay zero taxes. They didn't even want to declare their assets. Some started freaking out when FBR sent notices upon finding their bank transactions. Please watch videos with FBR chairman Shabbar Zaidi. It's illuminating.

My point is that the society itself is diseased. They don't even accept haram as haram. They want to pay bribes. They want to appoint their nephew in high places. They want modern infrastructure, good schools, or even fighter aircraft without paying taxes. Yet, they'll happily run from the country for a better life.

Regarding expatriates, IK was thinking that expats would come swooping down with billions of dollars. Actually, he still thinks that right now. Pakistani expats don't care for their country anywhere near as much as Indians do for theirs.

Where is the Pakistan lobby? It was practically nonexistent until IK went to jail and even then, it's just a bunch of ordinary middle class people writing letters. Nothing compared to the Indian lobby which rivals even Israel lobby.

How much funding did expats supporting IK bring? Not even $2.5 billion compared to the who knows how many billions Indians bring to India. Indians help India no matter where they go or whether BJP or Congress is in power. Pakistanis don't give a - about Pakistan even if IK is in charge

All your posts you bash politicians including IK, but you fail to mention the FA pass duffers, who have hijacked Pakistans since the 50s. It's almost as if you have an agenda to divert attention away from them.. I agree our politicians are scum, and even IK who while had the right intention, made many blunders. But its now public knowledge army and isi have been engaging in political engineering for a long time now.

 

[Goritoes]

No worries, let those bloody civilians go, we have retired Fauji who will take their place.

 

[HerbertPervert]

All your posts you bash politicians including IK, but you fail to mention the FA pass duffers, who have hijacked Pakistans since the 50s. It's almost as if you have an agenda to divert attention away from them.. I agree our politicians are scum, and even IK who while had the right intention, made many blunders. But its now public knowledge army and isi have been engaging in political engineering for a long time now.

Maybe you should search my post history or would you like me to repost examples for you to show you that you are wrong?

Even my post that you quote shows that I'm supporting IK. At least read it.

 

[khansaheeb]

Departure of skilled professionals | The Express Tribune

Pakistan is facing a severe brain drain crisis

tribune.com.pk

Pakistan is facing a severe brain drain crisis as a significant number of its citizens, including highly skilled professionals, are moving abroad in search of better opportunities. In the first six months of the current year, over 800,000 Pakistanis have emigrated, about 100,000 of whom are highly trained individuals such as doctors, nurses, engineers, IT experts and accountants.

The surge in emigration has been a growing concern for our country in recent years, but the departure of highly trained professionals has intensified the issue. The nation is grappling with multiple challenges that contribute to this brain drain, including a crumbling economy, political instability, rising unemployment, soaring inflation and the prevalence of extremist ideologies. These factors have created an environment that pushes skilled individuals to seek better prospects abroad.

According to Pakistan Bureau of Statistics, 832,000 individuals — 400,000 of whom are educated and qualified professionals — have left the country by June this year. The figures for 2022 — during which 225,000 Pakistanis emigrated — are three times higher than those for 2021; while 2020 had seen 280,000 individuals leaving the country. Since both 2020 and 2021 were pandemic years with global travel restrictions in place, it makes the current figures even more concerning.

The brain drain crisis has far-reaching consequences for a developing country like Pakistan. Its healthcare sector suffers from the departure of doctors and nurses. The loss of skilled engineers and IT experts hampers technological progress and industrial development in the country.

Brain drain diminishes productivity, deterring economic growth and causing dependency on expatriate remittances which exposes the economy to global instability. Departing skilled workers disrupt families, fracturing social unity and dynamics. The nation forfeits precious intellectual capital crucial for advancing research, education and societal advancement.

Underlying factors regarding Pakistan’s brain drain also involve political instability, life-threatening social deviance, extremist upsurge, absence of quality employment and more.

The country’s economy is crumbling, leading to limited job opportunities and inadequate wages for skilled professionals. Soaring inflation has eroded the purchasing power of the population, making it challenging to sustain a decent standard of living.

Frequent changes in government and political unrest create an uncertain environment, deterring foreign and domestic investments. Inconsistent policies thwart business growth and undermine confidence in the government.

There is an absence of foolproof security too. The rise of extremist ideologies has created an atmosphere of fear and insecurity among professionals and their families. Persistent security challenges in certain regions discourage professionals from staying in the country.

There is a dire need to prioritise a quality education as well as job creation in sectors with a demand for skilled professionals. We should offer competitive salaries and benefits to incentivise skilled individuals to stay in the country; establish transparent governance systems to build trust in institutions and attract favourable market; ensure policy consistency to provide businesses and professionals with a predictable environment; work to promote education, research and vocational training to empower youth with job-relevant skills and stimulate research-driven economic growth; tackle extremist ideologies to improve the overall security environment; and launch social welfare programmes to provide a safety net for vulnerable populations, including skilled professionals.

Brain drain crisis is a pressing issue that demands urgent attention and collective efforts from the government and stakeholders. There is need to embark upon a comprehensive reforms programmes in various sectors to create an environment that ensures growth and opportunities for citizens. It is crucial for the country to address the underlying causes of brain drain and work towards creating a conducive environment for its skilled workforce to flourish and contribute to its development and progress.


Published in The Express Tribune, September 6th, 2023.

Paltry number compared to the number of Indians running abroad:-

More undocumented Indians attempt to enter the United States – DW – 02/01/2023

The arrivals of Indians without visas at the US border shot up drastically in 2022. With India growing its middle class, what is drawing more people to take the risk?

www.dw.com

 

[PakFactor]

Paltry number compared to the number of Indians runniong abroad:-

More undocumented Indians attempt to enter the United States – DW – 02/01/2023

The arrivals of Indians without visas at the US border shot up drastically in 2022. With India growing its middle class, what is drawing more people to take the risk?

www.dw.com

A million for Pakistan is more valuable than a million for India compared to the size of the population, the quality of education, and how many graduates they pump out of the system compared to our useless schools.