Democrazy and Justice

[BATMAN]

My two paise-

Do you mean like this?

>>>Corruption in last three years has increased 400%.

See... educated people use references and statistics, instead of pointing fingers like indians.

 

[BATMAN]

Just like the pro-dictatorship crowd does not believe their beloved dictators have done anything wrong; The politicians are corrupt but as much corrupt are the civil and military bureaucrat. Indeed, the politicians have done corruption, but they not dug up the roots of this country, this fantastic job is done by the successive dictators.

So do we agree that corruption is independent of dictatorship.
But you must know that two wrongs does not make one right... you are free to discuss corruption of all.

During the military regime, this job was done by the deputed Army officers.

And the job was well done. I hope you agree to the misgovernance of so called civil regimes born out of deals.

Indeed, and similarly the Generals have supported their thugs; The kids of the former Generals openly accepted that their Dads made tons of money during the unholy Afghan war (Humayun Akhtar’s interviews are on record).

Making money and stealing money is different. look at the value of your currency vs. any thing. can you compare it to the afghan war times?
please... don't try to bring in other debates about being holy and unholy...

Nothing different happened during the successive military regimes.

First of all we never had military rule... only President was holding two positions and that too by the permission of public..... we had civil elections and local bodies govt. ensured the civil rights to the door steps of public.
If you are refering to the last government than i can only say ....perhaps you were sleeping through the whole period of (over all) revolution.

 

[sparklingway]

See... educated people use references and statistics, instead of pointing fingers like indians.

Okay.

Corruption in last three years has increased 400%.

Your Source? So, I'm the one pointing figures "like Indians". Hypocrisy topped with hatred of Indians. Nothing new.

 

[BATMAN]

Okay.



Your Source? So, I'm the one pointing figures "like Indians". Hypocrisy topped with hatred of Indians. Nothing new.

Hi... the link to source is embeded in the sentence.

 

[sparklingway]

I apologize for failing to see the link.

There are some anomalies as to when the "overall corruption" was around Rs. 45 billion. 2006 or 2002?

"In NCPS 2006 it was Rs 45 Billion"

"overall Corruption in 2002 has increased from Rs 45 Billion"

NCPS 2006 says Rs. 45 billion. NCPS 2002 doesn't give a figure in detailed report

 

[BATMAN]

sure... if economy grows the volume of corruption tends to inflate but while economy is going less than half and corruption figures going 4 times is a real disaster.

Again.... the corruption cannot be eliminated until we have an effective governance system.
Best governance system is local bodies..... and reduce the number of ministries on fedral level to maximum 5.
Disolve the parallel governance system..... of provincial assemblies which is biggest reason for the disarray in state affairs.
Role of social servant should be limited to his union council and that's all..... one man cannot address so many people or even friends.

partialy, i have also expalined the inherint corruption in election procss.... so Pakistan can never be true democracy until efforts are made to make it election process fare.
I know 40 years old who have never voted because they have no vote... where as i can show a 18 years old living in Multan and voting in every by elections around Pakistan.
When one man come to politics thinking that every soul should come ot him for his needs than it is worst than dictatorship...
Dictatorship is a system where elected leader take key decisions without preparing reasonable explanatory summary for his people...
For example i want...... every govt. to make public details of every loan they take but i don't care if the return the loan without consulting because than they have to run the state affairs with less money.
what is happening in Pakistan is finance ministers of both parties are responsible to go abroad and organise loans so that their respective parties can distribute part of it to its workers... some times cash and some time jobs! where as every living soul in Pakistan has to repay it back... while politicians and corrupt officials send their siblings and savings abroad and refuse to pay due taxes.

 

[pak-marine]

i have a question guys how much the civil bearucracy is actualy responsible for corruption in pak , if we look at it these bearucrats they always stay in power ... in change of political parties or regime i.e shift to dictatorship worst case he/she is transfered to a no mans land! ?? a closer look is needed after all they are the ones who implement strategies..!?

 

[sab]

Do you mean like this?

>>>Corruption in last three years has increased 400%.

See... educated people use references and statistics, instead of pointing fingers like indians.

I wont mind if you call me uneducated or you call the monkey of the pic so, but generalising all Indians as uneducated is not a trait of human (forget educated).............oooops , I forgot.....you are batman.....

 

[Developereo]

The problem is not democracy; it is lack of accountability.

Democracy without accountability is a sham. Pakistani 'democracy' is hijacked by the feudals and, without a significant middle class, the democratic process is a charade of looting and ethnic/party nepotism. The PPP comes and loots the country; then the PML-N takes their turn; then its back to the 'opposition'...

I'm not saying military rule is better. In fact, it is a sad commentary on Pakistan that some of the choice real estate in Karachi and Islamabad is owned by military personnel.

Something has to break the chokehold of the feudals and abolish feudalism. The military has repeatedly demonstrated they don't have the will or muscle to do it, so we are stuck in this charade.

The fault, ultimately, lies with the people of Pakistan who keep electing these bloodsuckers.

 

[sparklingway]

The fact that our first elections took place 23 years after Independence are a reflection on the way democracy has never been allowed to flourish in Pakistan.

 

[SSGPA1]

i have a question guys how much the civil bearucracy is actualy responsible for corruption in pak , if we look at it these bearucrats they always stay in power ... in change of political parties or regime i.e shift to dictatorship worst case he/she is transfered to a no mans land! ?? a closer look is needed after all they are the ones who implement strategies..!?

An example, cases closed due to NRO were about 8000 and I think majority were against bureaucracy. We only hear about PPPP related cases because if the charges up environment against Zardari.

 

[BATMAN]

The fact that our first elections took place 23 years after Independence are a reflection on the way democracy has never been allowed to flourish in Pakistan.

Democracy is not a plant that it need years to grow.
It is one system of governance.. which can be implemented overnight.
Elections takes place in Pakistan with intervals of five years.... some times twice in five years.....but when voters have to show the pictures of their vote to the candidate its not sham elections and hence forth.

In what sort of democracy Chairmanship is handed down to children as a family asset in shape of death will? we should be ashmed of calling present govt. as Democracy.

 

[sparklingway]

Democracy is not a plant that it need years to grow.
It is one system of governance.. which can be implemented overnight.
Elections takes place in Pakistan with intervals of five years.... some times twice in five years.....but when voters have to show the pictures of their vote to the candidate its not sham elections and hence forth.

In what sort of democracy Chairmanship is handed down to children as a family asset in shape of death will? we should be ashmed of calling present govt. as Democracy.

Sham democracy and twisted democracy are the right words. But stop condoning autocracies as well. Feudals pass party chairmanships to their family members, generals pass it to fellow generals.

 

[BATMAN]

Sham democracy and twisted democracy are the right words. But stop condoning autocracies as well. Feudals pass party chairmanships to their family members, generals pass it to fellow generals.

i left some mistake due to non proff reading but you got the message... that is important.
What autocracy are you reffering and what is wrong in passing command of a general to general?
You seem to have some undue problem with generals! but their is no justification for a family democracy.

 

[sparklingway]

i left some mistake due to non proff reading but you got the message... that is important.
What autocracy are you reffering and what is wrong in passing command of a general to general?
You seem to have some undue problem with generals! but their is no justification for a family democracy.

Not command for general to general, I was referring to Ayub passing the nations' buck to Yahya. Command will go from general to general obviously; it won't go from a general to a doodh wala.