Democrats threaten to block delivery of F-16 fighter jets!

[IceCold]

i dont disagree with my esteemed members bull & ice-cold, but the PAF history is replete with inducting american weapons systems and the PAF training is completely based on USAF patterns like Topgun school at sargodha etc.
if u will notice all arms transfers from america now include large numbers of spares to off-set to some extent the impact of sanctions. also pls do read the 911 commission report which clearly suggests that sanctions on pakistan will not resolve the terrorism/extremism issues. usa needs to have a sustained relationship with pakistan. if Hillary Clinton wins u will see a change in the democratic posture towards us. she so far is supporting us.

As far as you saying PAF training completely based on USAF! well i disagree why because on the other hand PAF is also using Mirage which happens to be french and F-7s, A-5 which happens to be chinese, so PAF has inducted mulitiple systems in the past and happens to do that again(JF-17, J-10), as for the f-16s no matter what block are they from still the airframe is of the 70s era and Air tech has improved since then.
Rafael on the other hand is much much more capable fighter as compared to F-16s and still they incoperate dual sticks like the F-16s which are pilots are used too.
I"ll still go for rafael over the F-16s even if it means limited induction of them, we can increase the number at anytime provided with the funds besides france is a much more realiable supplier then US would ever be.

 

[blain2]

As far as you saying PAF training completely based on USAF! well i disagree why because on the other hand PAF is also using Mirage which happens to be french and F-7s, A-5 which happens to be chinese, so PAF has inducted mulitiple systems in the past and happens to do that again(JF-17, J-10), as for the f-16s no matter what block are they from still the airframe is of the 70s era and Air tech has improved since then.
Rafael on the other hand is much much more capable fighter as compared to F-16s and still they incoperate dual sticks like the F-16s which are pilots are used too.
I"ll still go for rafael over the F-16s even if it means limited induction of them, we can increase the number at anytime provided with the funds besides france is a much more realiable supplier then US would ever be.

Rafale being much more capable than the F-16 is a debatable thing. Currently Rafale F2 is just coming on line giving the aircraft an air to air and air to surface capability for the first time. Certain avionics like the SPECTRA on the Rafale are neat for ECM/ECCM purposes, however F-16 blk-52/60 are no slouches either in terms of their MR capability, weapons and avionics. The difference is that the Rafale has a much modern airframe allowing it characteristics such as low-visibility (RCS wise). So I would say, avionics wise, both aircraft can be pretty well matched if we are talking blk-52/60 on the F-16 side, however as you correctly pointed out, airframe etc. is a generation apart.

I will give you a little hint about Rafale's sales prospects. You will never see a country flying a blk-52 or 60 (UAE only) consider the Rafale. The reason being that there is very little "edge" that a Rafale can provide over the above two blks of F-16s. Most countries flying blk-52s are looking for something beyond the 4/4.5 gen now (essentially the only platforms available are F-35, F/A-22 (nobody aside from JSDAF seems to be in the running for it) and then a far away third Typhoon.

Anyone going for Rafale will do so more out of political implications.

 

[IceCold]

The Rafale carries, for the first time in aviation history, an integrated electronic survival system named SPECTRA which features a software-based virtual stealth technology. The most important sensor is the Thales RBE2 passive electronically scanned multi-mode radar.
What we are getting in F-16s are the block 50/52 and not the block 60 so why to compare it with 60 then. As far as i remember the F-16s we are getting are technologicaly not as advance as they should have been because of the technology transfer restrictions placed on us and plane seriously lacks an offensive punch and there are a number of speculations about the aircraft lacking hightec technology, unable to carry nuclear weapons, pakistan not able to modify the plane, cannot leave pakistan airspace without US permission. This is not how deals are suppose to be made, we should go for what we needed and not for what others are willing to sell us.
Comparing the F-16s with the Rafale is very unfair to me because Rafale includes things on which modern aircombact will depend like a passive radar, a virtual stealth technology etc. Besides if we would have gone for the Rafale, as its facing a tough competition form typhoon, gripen and F-35, it may be possible that pakistan would have acquired something like technology transfer as was in the case of mirage when france offered pakistan with technology transfer and also in the case of agusta90b.
For F-16s we had to sign so many secuirty aggrements and still its not coming up with what we expected.
As for pakistan going for a 5th generation plane which currently are only the US F-22 and F-35, f-22 its simply not for sale and even if it would had been, it was way to expensive to acquire. As for the F-35, i dont think so US would ever sell something this sort to pakistan no matter how close our relation gets in the future which also seems doubtful as the current US tilt is towards India and not Pakistan. This makes both the planes out of question.
Then we have china which is still working on thier projects like the Fxx and no body knows when the system may get developed as china currently lacks in aerospace industry. Even with the J-10 pakistan doesnt seem much happy either and they want heavy modifications in the plane before getting PAF equipped with these planes. Which only leaves us with either rafale or typhoon, instead of getting typhoon, its better we go for Rafale.

 

[fatman17]

dear ice cold
weapons systems are one thing, fighting tactics (DCAT) and training is something else. u can have a weapons platform like u rightly said french or chinese but the training is on USAF patterns, PAF 1st preference is to send its top pilots to US, 2nd UK and only test pilots to China for evaluation of chinese systems.
i dont diasgree with the rest of what my esteemed colleagues are saying.