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Democracy in China? Depends on the outcome....

A typical viet always using one news article. :rofl:
Who the **** said Xi's daughter will be next president retard?
You missed the point, retard.

The point is that nepotism runs in your China, even all the way up to the rotten top. Even if little miss Mingze does not become China's next rotten leader, the fact that such a perception exists mean observers have seen it up and down the Chinese government.

Go troll someone else, you're not at my level old man
You are correct. I am at a much higher level.
 
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You mean power via bullets is better ? Killed enough of the opposition will make you a better leader ? Last time I checked, even China had to admit The Great Leap Forward and The Cultural Revolution were epic disasters. I guess instead of saying the right thing at the right time, the Chinese way is to use the right caliber at the right body part.

90% Of China’s Super-Rich Want To Send Children Abroad

Do explain to us how is little miss Mingze is the best 'man' for the job, democratically or not.

oh this is such a good moment, read that sentence again, lol, it's not a great sentence, but read it again.

Western media have reported that
Xi Mingze,

the daughter of Xi Jinping,

who is widely expected to become the new president of China and chairman of its Communist Party
,

is studying at Harvard University under an assumed name. (The university hasn't confirmed to the International Business Times that she indeed studies there.)

Source: Democracy in China? Depends on the outcome.... | Page 4

lol, now you see how this sentence is structured, Xi mingze, she's the daughter of Xi jinping, who's widely expected to become the blah blah blah, and THEN, is studying at Harvard.....

They are talking about Xi, but used a coma in between.


lol, I didn't read it carefully last time, lol, I'm not a grammar nazi, but you are using a sentence that you misunderstood to blow things way out of proportion, lol

:usflag:

How naive are you about your China ? Looks like plenty.

No relationship is ever completely one-way, not even under/in a totalitarian state, and your China is authoritarian, not totalitarian. That means business leaders have some degrees of freedom of movements, up-down, left-right, and in-out. The more freedoms they have, the more China's politicians relies on them to get things done, and reliance equals to strings, buddy.
spoken like someone not in the loop, stick to planes dude, leave business and politics to the big boys. Your understanding of human interaction is hilarious, but very common.
 
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oh this is such a good moment, read that sentence again, lol, it's not a great sentence, but read it again.

lol, I didn't read it carefully last time, lol, I'm not a grammar nazi, but you are using a sentence that you misunderstood to blow things way out of proportion, lol
I was wondering when any of you is going to catch on to that. :lol:

The sentence is indeed open to interpretation. But however it is interpreted, the truth is not that far behind.

The Son also Rises: nepotism doesn't disappear in China, it just gets a promotion | South China Morning Post
Today, such characters may go by a different name, guan er dai - the second-generation government officials, or princelings, particularly those of top mainland leaders.

While they may no longer go around beating people or abducting girls, they invariably take advantage of their parents' power and influence to enrich themselves or their families.

Judging by the rising number of reports in state media, the guan er dai are now using their nepotistic connections for what is termed "riding a rocket" - being promoted rapidly through government or party ranks to fill positions that, usually, have been vacated by their parents.

Not surprisingly, such cases have not escaped the attention of the mainland's feisty and tenacious internet community. In the latest example, as reported by the South China Morning Post yesterday, a 29-year-old deputy county chief in Jieyang, Guangdong, was demoted to a clerk after internet users exposed how his father, who held the post before him, may have had a hand in his son's fast-track promotion.

At least three other cases in Hunan were exposed online during the past week.

Even state media have labelled such blatant cases of nepotism as nothing more than officials treating their positions as hereditary titles to be passed on to their children.
Even for military's service, government officials can pay someone to take their children's places so their kids can enter business/politics to keep the government post in the family's hand.

spoken like someone not in the loop, stick to planes dude, leave business and politics to the big boys. Your understanding of human interaction is hilarious, but very common.
No...It sounds like it is YOU who are not in the loop. Anyone who thinks that politics can be independent of business, and vice versa, is a fool of the first order.

Of all human relationships, business is the most public and the most sought after, and in a serious kleptocracy like your China, politics and business is not only hand-in-hand but in the same bed.
 
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I was wondering when any of you is going to catch on to that. :lol:

The sentence is indeed open to interpretation. But however it is interpreted, the truth is not that far behind.

The Son also Rises: nepotism doesn't disappear in China, it just gets a promotion | South China Morning Post

Even for military's service, government officials can pay someone to take their children's places so their kids can enter business/politics to keep the government post in the family's hand.
nepotism happens, I can confirm it for you. But I can also confirm that unless they are exceptional people to begin with they won't go far.

You are under the impression that China is full of this and no one can rise or a majority can't but that's far from the truth.

I know of a case, my relative he's about a municipal level official and he made my cousin a low level official in the administration. Despite being my cousin, he is a moron, good to have with me for a good time, but he doesn't do anything and he can't do anything.

He won't ever change positions, and he's having a hard time staying after Xi came on.

Now if his father was higher, maybe he can also be higher, but keep this in mind, 96% of Chinese leadership comes from first generation, 91% of billionaires are also first generation, this will decrease in time, but not to an extent where they would be anything substantial.

Then you must also take into account of Xi, is he not showing himself as a great leader, are you going to say he's much worse than Bush?


But in terms of fairer treatment and the correction of a lot of social problems it is just happening or will be happening, keep in mind China is still at just 7,000 per capita, come back with this after we reach 10,000 to 15,000. Then we shall see if it's the system's broken or it was like I said, a problem with the level of our development.

Though if current trends continue, it's not a good bet for you.

No...It sounds like it is YOU who are not in the loop. Anyone who thinks that politics can be independent of business, and vice versa, is a fool of the first order.

Of all human relationships, business is the most public and the most sought after, and in a serious kleptocracy like your China, politics and business is not only hand-in-hand but in the same bed.

Oh I didn't say politics are independent of business or vise versa, I simply meant you have no idea, how people actually interact, you think, if business does this for me I need to do this for them or I get forced into it, but this is not the case.

It's far more complicated than that.

Oh and business and politics are never completely in the same bed, politicians have their goals, and business leaders have theirs, it's a battle of wits, a corporation between uneasy "allies," kind of like US China relations, we don't trust each other, like, or even leave them unopposed, but we will work with each other when the time comes, and non of us is ever going to lift that thin piece of paper that separates us from ripping each other's head off.
 
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nepotism happens,...

You are under the impression that China is full of this and no one can rise or a majority can't but that's far from the truth.
The nepotism in your China is so systemic and endemic that erasure of it will take at least two generations, buddy.

China's People's Liberation Army told to learn from Japan's 1894 victory | South China Morning Post
Analysts said the articles were intended to highlight the fact that the Qing-era military faced many of the same challenges that the People's Liberation Army is struggling with now. These include nepotism, factionalism and corruption.

"It's an open secret that the corruption problems inside the PLA today are even worse than those of the Qing dynasty's Beiyang fleet," said Ni Lexiong , director of a defence policy research centre at the Shanghai University of Political Science and Law.

Ni said that the buying and selling of military ranks had left unqualified officers in senior positions, creating an imbalance in the command structure.

"If such a phenomenon continues, the PLA will definitely be defeated by the Japanese army again if there is military conflict between the two countries," Ni said.
Generals and admirals purchases and trades officer ranks for each other's sons. That is how bad is nepotism in China.

Then you must also take into account of Xi, is he not showing himself as a great leader, are you going to say he's much worse than Bush?
Xi is a great leader in China, a country with much different political and social systems than the US. What make Xi 'great' in China may not be the same in the US, vice versa for B43. But I notice something: In the US, B43 have to annually expose his financial standing for the American public to examine, whereas in China, Xi's fortune, which is estimated to be in the hundreds of millions of $$$, is state secret. Why ?

Oh I didn't say politics are independent of business or vise versa, I simply meant you have no idea, how people actually interact, you think, if business does this for me I need to do this for them or I get forced into it, but this is not the case.

It's far more complicated than that.

Oh and business and politics are never completely in the same bed, politicians have their goals, and business leaders have theirs, it's a battle of wits, a corporation between uneasy "allies," kind of like US China relations, we don't trust each other, like, or even leave them unopposed, but we will work with each other when the time comes, and non of us is ever going to lift that thin piece of paper that separates us from ripping each other's head off.
In your China, they are in the same bed. Do I need to detail what happened in the Wenshou train crash ?
 
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The nepotism in your China is so systemic and endemic that erasure of it will take at least two generations, buddy.

China's People's Liberation Army told to learn from Japan's 1894 victory | South China Morning Post

Generals and admirals purchases and trades officer ranks for each other's sons. That is how bad is nepotism in China.

You want to talk military, especially Chinese military buddy, my dad's old classmate is the current deputy chief of staff of one of the major military regions, brigadier general, not saying which one, and they talk about the military whenever they get together.

You got this sick idea, that Chinese are all sick, selfish, and ignorant people that are only interested in self interest. It might shock you they have standards, they got morals, but more importantly, they love the army and they want to see it succeed.

You Americans have been with the Iraqis and Afgans too long, we are way pass that part of development, just like American commanders, ours also strive for excellence. We are not sending wooden boats against your warships, if anything tell your Philippine allies to stop making Asians look poor and stupid with that crap *** garbage on the middle of the ocean.

Are there bad apples? Of course, as if there are none in the American army, but the problem is not as serious as you think, yes corruption are more wide spread, but you think just because one is corrupt, you think they are incompetent? It just so happens that is the system they are in.



Xi is a great leader in China, a country with much different political and social systems than the US. What make Xi 'great' in China may not be the same in the US, vice versa for B43. But I notice something: In the US, B43 have to annually expose his financial standing for the American public to examine, whereas in China, Xi's fortune, which is estimated to be in the hundreds of millions of $$$, is state secret. Why ?

Xi is corrupt, maybe, maybe not, it's hard to say, some say Bo was not corrupt, and only he couldn't stop his wife and kids. You are keep talking about corruption, yes it happens, yes it's a huge problem and we are tackling it.

Which part of America is more developed than China are you not getting here. Who ever compares the American system with China's current system is a moron.

But you think American system can work anywhere is also wrong, North Korea exist, Vietnam is communist, middle east is a hole, the whole of Africa more so. Philippines is your colony and later ally, would you like to live there.

South America is no better, so after 50 or so years of Western democracy movement, and coups, only China, Japan, Korea, who have 2000 years of Chinese culture, and was just not scientifically advanced, are states that are considered stable, and good, while Singapore has a large Chinese population.


In your China, they are in the same bed. Do I need to detail what happened in the Wenshou train crash ?

good story, you gonna tell your grandkids?
 
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It's a fact until new solution is discovered. Once a solution is discovered, its not overpopulate. I will give an example.
Suppose China can produce 10 times the agriculture output of current day, is having 1.4 billion population overpopulation?

Since current day agriculture output of China is enough for 1.4 billion population, 10 times of it will give great great surplus. Can China output 10 times the agriculture? Can Rice in ton/land units increase? Yes. In fact, it has been increasing greatly during these 30 years.

How about modified rice or potato that could grow in desert using water dipping technology? Is that sound like a undo-able time travel technology?

Since when do Chinese people say the word "impossible" so easy?
The more people a nation has, the higher the ability for a nation to change world's environment to their need.

Yuan Longping sounds like the Chinese Norman Borlaug. Same hype and delusion. The increases in crop yields since world war two have, in reality, had little to do with plant breeding. Actually when you compare these modern hybrid varieties TODAY to the older crop varieties they replaced, the modern hybrids often perform less well. So why did they give 20% more yield in the 1960's? Pests and diseases have evolved since the 1960's and modern crop varieties are too inbred and uniform to keep evolving to keep up with the bugs. For this reason, incidentally, male sterile hybrid crops are a REALLY BAD IDEA. ( google Corn Disease Panics Stock Market,
U.S. President
it's on a site called webgrower)

So what has caused the increase in crop yields over recent decades? Quite simply, massive inputs of fossil fuels (tractor fuel, fertiliser etc.) and other non renewable resources such as phosphate. Peak oil is well understood, but lets for the sake of argument say that we switch to nuclear powered tractors and use some other energy source to make the nitrogen fertiliser.

We are then left with the problem of peak phosphate. This issue is not well known, but IMO is one of the most urgent issues of today. Phosphate production peaked in 1989. Phosphate is an element. You can't make phosphate, except in a nuclear reactor, which would be prohibitively expensive and give us radioactive food. You can't genetically engineer crops that don't need phosphate, because phosphate is needed for the DNA molecule. Also GM crops are even more overhyped than the green revolution crops of the 1960's. When I see GM science at work, I'm reminded of my brother, age 12 taking apart radios to see how they work. They always worked worse after he got his hands on them.

The real issue is how to feed millions of URBAN people. The phosphate problem stems from our toilets and sewage systems which break the natural nutrient cycles. We need ways to safely return our sewage to the land without contaminating the food chain with either pathogens or heavy metals. The Chinese actually understood this very well in the past when composting toilets were the norm. However urban sewage systems and urban areas in general are not designed and planned with this in mind.

The solutions to peak phosphate are not new and not rocket science. Genetics, plant breeding and GM technology haven't lived up to the hype and simply can't and don't do many of the things claimed for them. Farmers now lose a higher percentage of their crops to pest and disease than they did in 1945. To carry on increasing inputs of fossil fuels and phosphate as we have been doing for decades is not an option. Unsustainable food production is not only the farmers fault and not only the farmer's responsibility, consumers (especially the ones using flushing lavatories) must also take responsibility.

Also don't forget that modern farming methods may be increasing yields per hectare, but they are also decreasing the number of hectares of farm land by causing soil erosion. Cities are also expanding into farm land. Take a good look at the middle east and compare it to the descriptions of the land in the old testament - green pastures flowing with milk and honey, forest etc. This is what centuries of bad farming does. Wanna see this process accelerated? It's happening right now!
 
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that basement old man is so sick with those antique Cold War propaganda ideologies, and with the development of new world and new order, his sickness will turn into a perpetual agony
 
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Ruling after people approval:democracy
Using fear of people to rule : dictatorship
Dictatorship can only survive using fear be it religiously motivated or militarily ..What will a dictator do if he cant deliver progress and not confident about public support ? Suppressing people to hold on power ..fundamentally democracy is best way and there is no alternative
 
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Yuan Longping sounds like the Chinese Norman Borlaug. Same hype and delusion. The increases in crop yields since world war two have, in reality, had little to do with plant breeding. Actually when you compare these modern hybrid varieties TODAY to the older crop varieties they replaced, the modern hybrids often perform less well. So why did they give 20% more yield in the 1960's? Pests and diseases have evolved since the 1960's and modern crop varieties are too inbred and uniform to keep evolving to keep up with the bugs. For this reason, incidentally, male sterile hybrid crops are a REALLY BAD IDEA. ( google Corn Disease Panics Stock Market,
U.S. President
it's on a site called webgrower)

So what has caused the increase in crop yields over recent decades? Quite simply, massive inputs of fossil fuels (tractor fuel, fertiliser etc.) and other non renewable resources such as phosphate. Peak oil is well understood, but lets for the sake of argument say that we switch to nuclear powered tractors and use some other energy source to make the nitrogen fertiliser.

We are then left with the problem of peak phosphate. This issue is not well known, but IMO is one of the most urgent issues of today. Phosphate production peaked in 1989. Phosphate is an element. You can't make phosphate, except in a nuclear reactor, which would be prohibitively expensive and give us radioactive food. You can't genetically engineer crops that don't need phosphate, because phosphate is needed for the DNA molecule. Also GM crops are even more overhyped than the green revolution crops of the 1960's. When I see GM science at work, I'm reminded of my brother, age 12 taking apart radios to see how they work. They always worked worse after he got his hands on them.

The real issue is how to feed millions of URBAN people. The phosphate problem stems from our toilets and sewage systems which break the natural nutrient cycles. We need ways to safely return our sewage to the land without contaminating the food chain with either pathogens or heavy metals. The Chinese actually understood this very well in the past when composting toilets were the norm. However urban sewage systems and urban areas in general are not designed and planned with this in mind.

The solutions to peak phosphate are not new and not rocket science. Genetics, plant breeding and GM technology haven't lived up to the hype and simply can't and don't do many of the things claimed for them. Farmers now lose a higher percentage of their crops to pest and disease than they did in 1945. To carry on increasing inputs of fossil fuels and phosphate as we have been doing for decades is not an option. Unsustainable food production is not only the farmers fault and not only the farmer's responsibility, consumers (especially the ones using flushing lavatories) must also take responsibility.

Also don't forget that modern farming methods may be increasing yields per hectare, but they are also decreasing the number of hectares of farm land by causing soil erosion. Cities are also expanding into farm land. Take a good look at the middle east and compare it to the descriptions of the land in the old testament - green pastures flowing with milk and honey, forest etc. This is what centuries of bad farming does. Wanna see this process accelerated? It's happening right now!

Excellent first post on PDF. Very informative, and provides a rare and unique perspective.
 
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You want to talk military, especially Chinese military buddy, my dad's old classmate is the current deputy chief of staff of one of the major military regions, brigadier general, not saying which one, and they talk about the military whenever they get together.

You got this sick idea, that Chinese are all sick, selfish, and ignorant people that are only interested in self interest. It might shock you they have standards, they got morals, but more importantly, they love the army and they want to see it succeed.

You Americans have been with the Iraqis and Afgans too long, we are way pass that part of development, just like American commanders, ours also strive for excellence. We are not sending wooden boats against your warships, if anything tell your Philippine allies to stop making Asians look poor and stupid with that crap *** garbage on the middle of the ocean.

Are there bad apples? Of course, as if there are none in the American army, but the problem is not as serious as you think, yes corruption are more wide spread, but you think just because one is corrupt, you think they are incompetent? It just so happens that is the system they are in.
We have gone through this before. There is no comparison between infidelity or drunken behaviors vs corruption, which is far far worse. Corruption in the PLA is not as bad as I think but as bad as those who lives in China and was in the PLA think. They wrote and raised alarms about it. Why is it that PLA generals and admirals are allowed to be CEOs of PLA owned corporations ? Why is the PLA allowed to own corporations in the first place ? This is collusion between the military and business and you have the gall to laugh at me when I point out the corruption between politics and business in China ? You want to talk about the military-industrial complex ? Look at your own China.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Chinese people does not live under the rule of law but of personalities and whenever any of them achieved any measure of state power, the odds of that person being corrupted increases dramatically, according to your own social critics that the Chinese government imprisoned for pointing out. If the Chinese people is sick, it is because The Party made them that way.

Xi is corrupt, maybe, maybe not, it's hard to say, some say Bo was not corrupt, and only he couldn't stop his wife and kids. You are keep talking about corruption, yes it happens, yes it's a huge problem and we are tackling it.
There is no 'maybe' Xi is corrupt or not. Xi is corrupt. In the US, state and federal level candidates are usually compelled by public opinions to disclose their tax returns to show how much they earned. In your China, your political leaders are corrupt enough that they have to make laws that prevent scrutiny into how much wealth they have.

But you think American system can work anywhere is also wrong, North Korea exist, Vietnam is communist, middle east is a hole, the whole of Africa more so. Philippines is your colony and later ally, would you like to live there.
I can also say European democracies works pretty good.

good story, you gonna tell your grandkids?
Yes, I will. The Wenzhou train disaster would serve as an excellent example of the co-dependency of politics and business in China that ended in disaster, the kind of relationship that you laughed at me about. :lol:
 
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Yuan Longping sounds like the Chinese Norman Borlaug. Same hype and delusion. The increases in crop yields since world war two have, in reality, had little to do with plant breeding. Actually when you compare these modern hybrid varieties TODAY to the older crop varieties they replaced, the modern hybrids often perform less well. So why did they give 20% more yield in the 1960's? Pests and diseases have evolved since the 1960's and modern crop varieties are too inbred and uniform to keep evolving to keep up with the bugs. For this reason, incidentally, male sterile hybrid crops are a REALLY BAD IDEA. ( google Corn Disease Panics Stock Market,
U.S. President
it's on a site called webgrower)

So what has caused the increase in crop yields over recent decades? Quite simply, massive inputs of fossil fuels (tractor fuel, fertiliser etc.) and other non renewable resources such as phosphate. Peak oil is well understood, but lets for the sake of argument say that we switch to nuclear powered tractors and use some other energy source to make the nitrogen fertiliser.

We are then left with the problem of peak phosphate. This issue is not well known, but IMO is one of the most urgent issues of today. Phosphate production peaked in 1989. Phosphate is an element. You can't make phosphate, except in a nuclear reactor, which would be prohibitively expensive and give us radioactive food. You can't genetically engineer crops that don't need phosphate, because phosphate is needed for the DNA molecule. Also GM crops are even more overhyped than the green revolution crops of the 1960's. When I see GM science at work, I'm reminded of my brother, age 12 taking apart radios to see how they work. They always worked worse after he got his hands on them.

The real issue is how to feed millions of URBAN people. The phosphate problem stems from our toilets and sewage systems which break the natural nutrient cycles. We need ways to safely return our sewage to the land without contaminating the food chain with either pathogens or heavy metals. The Chinese actually understood this very well in the past when composting toilets were the norm. However urban sewage systems and urban areas in general are not designed and planned with this in mind.

The solutions to peak phosphate are not new and not rocket science. Genetics, plant breeding and GM technology haven't lived up to the hype and simply can't and don't do many of the things claimed for them. Farmers now lose a higher percentage of their crops to pest and disease than they did in 1945. To carry on increasing inputs of fossil fuels and phosphate as we have been doing for decades is not an option. Unsustainable food production is not only the farmers fault and not only the farmer's responsibility, consumers (especially the ones using flushing lavatories) must also take responsibility.

Also don't forget that modern farming methods may be increasing yields per hectare, but they are also decreasing the number of hectares of farm land by causing soil erosion. Cities are also expanding into farm land. Take a good look at the middle east and compare it to the descriptions of the land in the old testament - green pastures flowing with milk and honey, forest etc. This is what centuries of bad farming does. Wanna see this process accelerated? It's happening right now!
Expert !
So, what is your suggestion to solve farmland & food problem?
 
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We have gone through this before. There is no comparison between infidelity or drunken behaviors vs corruption, which is far far worse. Corruption in the PLA is not as bad as I think but as bad as those who lives in China and was in the PLA think. They wrote and raised alarms about it. Why is it that PLA generals and admirals are allowed to be CEOs of PLA owned corporations ? Why is the PLA allowed to own corporations in the first place ? This is collusion between the military and business and you have the gall to laugh at me when I point out the corruption between politics and business in China ? You want to talk about the military-industrial complex ? Look at your own China.

I never said there is, you just raised that issue and I answer it.

PLA definitely has a corruption problem that much anybody with half a brain knows. The question is how much does it affect the PLA and how much will it affect it in the future.

This may shock you, but lots of Chinese have the ambition of being the best in the world, this is especially true in the military, and through our efforts, our training efforts in special forces are of world class standards as proven in many international competitions.

The corruption in the military definitely erodes, but that is also one of the draw backs of a peacetime military, with no military accomplishments to draw from, when time comes for promotion, who's to say who's better unless the difference is quite big.

As to why the military has businesses, which are now more or less left their hands, is because the country has no money. The military for a long time was living on scraps from the budget. China was in a development first attitude, no one paid any attention to the military, they were initially built to better the lives of ordinary soldiers, and in some cases just to pay for medical, or other living expenses.

Obviously they are greatly abused since then, but the original thought was one of necessity that you being in America couldn't even think of.


I didn't laugh at you for politics and business, I laughed at you for talking about things you know nothing about, be technician and that's it. Human to human interactions is very difficult, I can be 100% sure, if you use what you said or thinks about how favors or something are secured you will fail 100% of the time and 99% of the time, you won't even be in the door. The other is if somehow you knocked on the wrong door and the guy you wanted to see is there.

I never said anything about MIC, don't know where this is coming from.

We are raising alarms and we are changing, this is also why the downed plane search was a good thing that it exposed the PLAN and the recent exercises also exposed our weaknesses. Like battalion and regiment commanders had problems with coordination, and new live fire exercises with no obvious targets, cross country mobilization, and a lot of other new practices are really helping to expose the PLA's weakness which will be fixed and won't be a weakness in a year or two.

We are also adding the practice of not demote or stop a promotion or even duck points for a failed exercise, so less pressure on a exercise and the more reasons for the commanders to take risks in exercises to test new strategies and a few other effects.

Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The Chinese people does not live under the rule of law but of personalities and whenever any of them achieved any measure of state power, the odds of that person being corrupted increases dramatically, according to your own social critics that the Chinese government imprisoned for pointing out. If the Chinese people is sick, it is because The Party made them that way.
Power corrupts, but now there is a new outlet for that, like America we can spread that to the rest of the world, instead of keepign it inside China. A lot of your businesses are pretty inhumane outside of America, but inside America they are an angel, well sort of, we will and are doing that now.

Do you know how many people are openly critical of the government, do you know how many are imprisoned. I talked with leverage about that. You can be anti China, but you also have to be anti something else as well, just anti China will not be good, but still not that serious, it's serious only if you make a big deal.

As a side note, that nobel prize winning clown that said China needs to be colonized, do you know when he was anti China and when the take down happened? He had a good 20 year run, before he got clipped, so it's not a one word and you are done deal. Be critical sure, but don't go over the top and try to topple the government.

There are thousands of protests, none of them are arrested, at least not many or we know, I say this because Weibo is so powerful now, not much is not known in China.

We also got tons of people outside the country too.

While I dont' agree with it that's where the line is drawn.

Rule of law, sure rule of law is not as good as the US in some parts, but no rule of law means anarchy, does China look like it's in anarchy right now.

I will also point out, a lot of people within the PLA especially the younger generation, welcomes this crack down, and welcomes a cleaner PLA, they amy tolerate it when they must, but given the option, they would choose to concentrate on doing the best they can for the army they love.

The party is arbitrary, you whole definition of party is flawed, which party are you talkign about? The Mao party that destroyed the rich, the Deng party that experimented with capitalism, the Jiang party that dove head first into capitalism, the Hu party that sacrificed too much for progress, or the Xi party that's hell bent on making China the preeminent power in Asia and the world.

Which party, cause a few of them are in opposite sides of the spectrum, and thus cannot be all.

One party is now just one government. Would you feel better if we eliminated the party system and revert back to simply, servants of the nation with the only affiliation to the nation of China. Which is more or less what's happening now.


There is no 'maybe' Xi is corrupt or not. Xi is corrupt. In the US, state and federal level candidates are usually compelled by public opinions to disclose their tax returns to show how much they earned. In your China, your political leaders are corrupt enough that they have to make laws that prevent scrutiny into how much wealth they have.

Xi is corrupt, big words, probably true. I'm not going to get into this debate with you on whether the US is better here or not, I'll just say this, America has 16 trillion dollar economy, Walmart employees can't feed themselves, so even if American politicians aren't corrupt, that money isn't really trickling down to the masses are they, so where are they. Does it make you feel better if as long as the money doesn't end up in a politician's pocket?

I can also say European democracies works pretty good.

Did you not understand my posts, Europe, or Western europe to be precises matches the criteria for democracy, the democracies there wasn't installed, but they each not only got it themselves, but invented it and improved upon it. They are the original nations.

Yes, I will. The Wenzhou train disaster would serve as an excellent example of the co-dependency of politics and business in China that ended in disaster, the kind of relationship that you laughed at me about. :lol:
Are you also going to tell your children about the 10,000 km of track we have now and that will be doubled to 20,000 in a few years too? Also the California train plan that went no where and apparent goes no where as the new destinations are places, I never even heard of and I been to Cali quite a few times.

To that last part, read what I said again, and carefully consider what I said, did I question the existence of the relationship, or did I question the nature of it, and the realities of it.
 
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Meritocracy in Chinese system is what separate us and them. Nothing to do with democracy or dictatorship. It's something the west want us to change because they fear our leader's competency. Year after year, the western leaders left or right are *** clowns elected for Jimmy Fallon's late night skit. You can take the weakest Chinese leader in the past 40 years and he is still more successful than these elected western clowns.

Excellent post and that sums up the essence of the message China wants to convey to our Western friends: That, even if your Obama walks with a halo over his head, China won't copy or imitate your ways and understandings just because China adores and admires you.

China will pragmatically and eclectically select whatever it sees fit and working. It will play with your concepts and tech, and if nothing good comes out of them, will throw them out, even though it is written in your holiest book.

Lecturing China will not work. As President Xi made it clear, China won't copy you.
 
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