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Delhi’s tortoise limbers up to Beijing’s hare

If my above post didn't answer your query, then let me point out that English is the business language of the world, it is also helpful for technical education and research, and it can be an asset for people working in the service industry.

No your previous post did not answer the question.

Analysis:

1) English is indeed currently a international language, I already knew that, indeed a good command of it would be helpful by saving time/costs in translation, but it is not a necessity to understand logic/rationale/results especially in technical and science fields. Moreover, not all international communications are carried through English.
2) Abundant tech/science literature is carried by non-English language, so translation will be limited to English-carried literature only.
3) In science/tech/engineering fields, basic command of English alphabetical characters is adequate to do most of the jobs. It not about good command of English language.
4) It would be an advantage for people working in the service industry only if the buy-side demand English as part of the service rendered, while irrelevant if otherwise.
5) It is a communication tool, and its popularity guarantee a good supply of it hence lower the costs of deployment whenever such tool is needed. So a good command of English is an marginal advantage though not significant if measured in time/costs savings.

Macroscopic samples:

1) In the top 10 countries with most English speakers, take out 3 native speaking countries US, UK and Canada, all 6 developing or seriously-under-developed countries except Germany.
2) OECD members Japan, Korea, France, all out of top 10. If you want to argue Nigeria, Egypt and Philippines can beat them in "future" or "they eventually prevail", I can't disagree now, welcome to start another thread.

My conclusion: you claim of "higher English speaking population is an advantage" is utterly wrong if used as one of the core advantages in macroscopic economic comparison between two countries.

Your views?

Being comfortable in English is an advantage, however, the ecosystem must be there to utilize its full potential.

I know this term "ecosystem", how does it apply here?

English will only help in running internet scam business like the number 4 in your chart. :)

Please explain.




@Yizhi @DRAY @Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @SvenSvensonov
 
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I agree that there is great potential in this model, but no country has ever developed to advanced status using this model. If India can accomplish it, great, but I must remain skeptical until it happens. Everyone else used the manufacturing model.

No country has ever developed to advanced status using this model because outsourcing of services using information technology is a fairly new concept compared to outsourcing of manufacturing. No country has ever developed to advanced status by just being the outsourced destination of manufacturing also, there need to be further value creation, like innovation, quality control, brand creation, etc. However, being an outsourcing destination of service can be an effective alternative of being an outsourcing destination of manufacturing, minus the environmental issues and lesser infrastructural investment.

But this is not the 'model', it is just one major source of revenue among many, including manufacturing.

Can you please show me your numbers? I don't have Chinese GDP for 2014, but using World Bank numbers for 2003-2013 (in USD), I get 5.6x growth for China, and for India over the same period I get 2.7x growth. Of course we can argue about currency effects and leverage, but that's a daunting gap in performance, and China's is from a higher base as well.

You mentioned Chinese debt and a possible correction; it's true that some kind of economic crisis in China might provide an opportunity for India to eventually surpass China, but because it's unclear how a crisis in China might affect world GDP (and in turn, Indian GDP), it's hard to say that such an outcome would be positive for India.

I didn't use a calculator, just gave you a rough estimate, and I used 2000-2010 for India, for China 2003-2013 was apparently the best period as it looks without going through the calculator. India lost track during the UPA government tenure starting from 2004 and did particularly bad during its 2nd term for the period of 2009-2014. The growth that happened during 2000-2010 was a result of the economic reforms of the previous govt. tenure of 1999-2004 only. India was at $476 billion in 2000.

A slowdown in China might affect India to some extent, but opportunities will be higher. US economy has far deeper effect on global economy, but still some economies did well even during the 2008 crisis. Btw, 'eventually surpassing China' is not happening anytime soon, it will take some 30 to 50 years within the range of an optimistic and pessimistic estimate, the slowdown will only help in closing the gap.

I also think that China will take much more time to surpass USA than what is being popularly estimated. USA is truly in a different league in terms of technological, social and economic development, and its ability to create disruptive technologies is unmatched.

We agree that other countries will join the ranks of developed economies, and I have no doubt India will do so in the coming years as well. The question, though, what whether or how India could surpass China, and I am still unclear on that point.

How China is closing the gap with USA in terms of nominal GDP though the per capita GDP is still much lower than that of USA's? Similarly, going forward India will have more working population compared to China, and India's technological, social and economic gap with China is far lower than the gap China had with USA 30 years back in terms of technological, social and economic development.

India miss their opportunity to used their vast labor work force to transform their nation as the manufacture hub in this world during the boom economy yrs in late 90's and mid 2000's that at least 10 yrs span China accelerated and achieved their manufacture industrial grow from 2 trillions to 7 trillions. During this period majority of world economy enjoyed the booming yrs without the credit crunch suffer from the financial crisis in 2008 and beyond. To think India will surpass China as a manufacture powerhouse and achieve a double digit growth very naive of the India economy planner without a realistic expectation.

India's economic planners do not really have such expectations or intentions.

No your previous post did not answer the question.

Analysis:

1) English is indeed currently a international language, I already knew that, indeed a good command of it would be helpful by saving time/costs in translation, but it is not a necessity to understand logic/rationale/results especially in technical and science fields. Moreover, not all international communications are carried through English.
2) Abundant tech/science literature is carried by non-English language, so translation will be limited to English-carried literature only.
3) In science/tech/engineering fields, basic command of English alphabetical characters is adequate to do most of the jobs. It not about good command of English language.
4) It would be an advantage for people working in the service industry only if the buy-side demand English as part of the service rendered, while irrelevant if otherwise.
5) It is a communication tool, and its popularity guarantee a good supply of it hence lower the costs of deployment whenever such tool is needed. So a good command of English is an marginal advantage though not significant if measured in time/costs savings.

Macroscopic samples:

1) In the top 10 countries with most English speakers, take out 3 native speaking countries US, UK and Canada, all 6 developing or seriously-under-developed countries except Germany.
2) OECD members Japan, Korea, France, all out of top 10. If you want to argue Nigeria, Egypt and Philippines can beat them in "future" or "they eventually prevail", I can't disagree now, welcome to start another thread.

My conclusion: you claim of "higher English speaking population is an advantage" is utterly wrong if used as one of the core advantages in macroscopic economic comparison between two countries.

Your views?



I know this term "ecosystem", how does it apply here?



Please explain.




@Yizhi @DRAY @Nihonjin1051 @Chinese-Dragon @SvenSvensonov

You have missed the scope & opportunities of service industry that I have described in my previous post. Will discuss later, though you are probably more interested in denial than discussion. :)
 
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You have missed the scope & opportunities of service industry that I have described in my previous post. Will discuss later, though you are probably more interested in denial than discussion. :)


Oh no I don't deny that service industry is one component of national economy, actually we all know it, basic economic knowledge right? I will discuss.

Now back to my query that you have denied direct responding. You specifically listed "4 advantages" that will bring India to developed nation status, and due to their critical importance and pivotal positions I want to know more about these one by one. Starting with point #2 ("Higher English speaking population"), why and how? I have also put up a counter-statement with analysis and supporting samples/data. You want to live in denial without responding to my public post? Let's discuss, show me you how right you claimed or admit you were wrong.
 
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No country has ever developed to advanced status using this model because outsourcing of services using information technology is a fairly new concept compared to outsourcing of manufacturing. No country has ever developed to advanced status by just being the outsourced destination of manufacturing also, there need to be further value creation, like innovation, quality control, brand creation, etc. However, being an outsourcing destination of service can be an effective alternative of being an outsourcing destination of manufacturing, minus the environmental issues and lesser infrastructural investment.

But this is not the 'model', it is just one major source of revenue among many, including manufacturing.

India's advantage and disadvantage is its massive population, like China minor improvements can send shock waves, but also like China, it is incredibly difficult to pull up the rest of the people. By 2050-2100, India will have approximately 1.6 billion people, yea I seen the thread about India population stabilizing, but I'll raise the issue again, at 1.6 China is still increasing and at barely 1, Japan is still not decreasing.

You can maybe make a couple hundred million, if that, to outsourcing information tech, but remember even today you have 1.2 billion people.

Manufacturing is needed to raise everyone up, most people cannot do outsourcing, if nothing else they cannot afford the education, or simply don't have what it takes.

Brand creation, innovation, quality control, where are you going to get it if not from manufacturing, today's China is already doing it, why? Not because the people changed it's the same people, but because they have money. Innovation is essentially capital + time. You have time, but do you have the capital.

Again, I'm not going to list individual industries or companies, because it's not about a few industries or companies, it's about the 1 billion plus we both have. 2 Trillion dollar economy sounds big until you even it out to 1.2 billion and realize how limited the capital actually exist.

I didn't use a calculator, just gave you a rough estimate, and I used 2000-2010 for India, for China 2003-2013 was apparently the best period as it looks without going through the calculator. India lost track during the UPA government tenure starting from 2004 and did particularly bad during its 2nd term for the period of 2009-2014. The growth that happened during 2000-2010 was a result of the economic reforms of the previous govt. tenure of 1999-2004 only. India was at $476 billion in 2000.

A slowdown in China might affect India to some extent, but opportunities will be higher. US economy has far deeper effect on global economy, but still some economies did well even during the 2008 crisis. Btw, 'eventually surpassing China' is not happening anytime soon, it will take some 30 to 50 years within the range of an optimistic and pessimistic estimate, the slowdown will only help in closing the gap.

I also think that China will take much more time to surpass USA than what is being popularly estimated. USA is truly in a different league in terms of technological, social and economic development, and its ability to create disruptive technologies is unmatched.

China during 2003 and 2013 went crazy with development, the entire manufacturing base of the world went to us. I mean you can go into any store, if the product is not made in China, the cash register used is, if the register is not, the table is, if the table is not the carpet is, if the carpet is not the paint is, point is, you will find made in China everywhere.

That's how we went from 70% poor to about 7% when talking $1.25 per day.

Can India do that? Not easily, especially when we still control massive amount of the market, while our consumer market isn't huge percentage, but it's still huge relative to anyone else's entire GDP, which means moving else where has to have some pretty big advantages that isn't just lower wages, as massive production can easily cut down the cost.

Not to mention, management, skilled workers, and such takes time, again not saying India doesn't have it, does India have hundreds of millions of them? The answer is obviously no. We didn't go from making a cup to assembling high tech in one day.

You think is easy, can you make a cup? I can't, do you know the challenges if managing workers? I only knew after working as an low wage employee during my college years. Nothing is as simple as it sounds.

Then there's the fact that there's ASEAN, Africa and Latin America that have all seen what China has done and want a piece of that action, a huge contrast to 10-20 years ago, when India's growth path was seen as the shining light.

Looking at that last part really shows that you think China will implode, or at least not do well, which explains why you think India will catch up. Though I'll remind you, every year there are those predictions, I can pull up 5 year old threads and show you Indian comments on this and reference it to now, or any nationality.

How China is closing the gap with USA in terms of nominal GDP though the per capita GDP is still much lower than that of USA's? Similarly, going forward India will have more working population compared to China, and India's technological, social and economic gap with China is far lower than the gap China had with USA 30 years back in terms of technological, social and economic development.

Except in order for India to match China you need to match our per capita as well, we don't need to match the per capita of US.

Also we were able to do so with the crazy amount of revenue we gained from exports, I mean it would take 20 years alone for India to match our F/E even if you do well in exports.

You have missed the scope & opportunities of service industry that I have described in my previous post. Will discuss later, though you are probably more interested in denial than discussion. :)

You know, not everyone is pro China and anti India, and we are the propaganda warriors, geez.

Again, service industry just doesn't have that much to offer to people who don't have education, and I don't mean basic education, I mean post secondary education of which India is severely lacking as evident by every metric that measures the post secondary education quality.

Fun fact, China's universities also built on the environmentally damaging, the land robbing, and low paying, slave labor that India apparently is too good for.

Another fun fact, we can now cut back on pollution, our parents have used that money to sent their kids to higher education and even themselves are earning a healthy amount.

You want to do service industry? Of course you will succeed, but for how many is the question, especially with competition coming from other places as well.
 
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Oh no I don't deny that service industry is one component of national economy, actually we all know it, basic economic knowledge right? I will discuss.

Now back to my query that you have denied direct responding. You specifically listed "4 advantages" that will bring India to developed nation status, and due to their critical importance and pivotal positions I want to know more about these one by one. Starting with point #2 ("Higher English speaking population"), why and how? I have also put up a counter-statement with analysis and supporting samples/data. You want to live in denial without responding to my public post? Let's discuss, show me you how right you claimed or admit you were wrong.

I wonder how it is so difficult to understand. English is widely spoken in the some of the most wealthy countries of the world, in simple words just like China has exported goods to US & Europe, India can export services to these places apart from goods. And knowledge of English is required here. The range of service is very wide requiring high level of technical skills to low-skill jobs.

India's advantage and disadvantage is its massive population, like China minor improvements can send shock waves, but also like China, it is incredibly difficult to pull up the rest of the people. By 2050-2100, India will have approximately 1.6 billion people, yea I seen the thread about India population stabilizing, but I'll raise the issue again, at 1.6 China is still increasing and at barely 1, Japan is still not decreasing.

You can maybe make a couple hundred million, if that, to outsourcing information tech, but remember even today you have 1.2 billion people.

Manufacturing is needed to raise everyone up, most people cannot do outsourcing, if nothing else they cannot afford the education, or simply don't have what it takes.

Since when India has discarded manufacturing? Manufacturing will surely increase, India is fast emerging as an automobile manufacturing hub, we lack in manufacturing of electronics products, but govt. is taking steps to strengthen it. Services will be additional revenue & employment generator, and we are already doing well in services which is not limited to IT industry only.

Brand creation, innovation, quality control, where are you going to get it if not from manufacturing, today's China is already doing it, why? Not because the people changed it's the same people, but because they have money. Innovation is essentially capital + time. You have time, but do you have the capital.

Again, I'm not going to list individual industries or companies, because it's not about a few industries or companies, it's about the 1 billion plus we both have. 2 Trillion dollar economy sounds big until you even it out to 1.2 billion and realize how limited the capital actually exist.

China's 2004 GDP was less than $2 trillion, you didn't sound so pessimistic then, did you?

China during 2003 and 2013 went crazy with development, the entire manufacturing base of the world went to us. I mean you can go into any store, if the product is not made in China, the cash register used is, if the register is not, the table is, if the table is not the carpet is, if the carpet is not the paint is, point is, you will find made in China everywhere.

That's how we went from 70% poor to about 7% when talking $1.25 per day.

Can India do that? Not easily, especially when we still control massive amount of the market, while our consumer market isn't huge percentage, but it's still huge relative to anyone else's entire GDP, which means moving else where has to have some pretty big advantages that isn't just lower wages, as massive production can easily cut down the cost.

Not to mention, management, skilled workers, and such takes time, again not saying India doesn't have it, does India have hundreds of millions of them? The answer is obviously no. We didn't go from making a cup to assembling high tech in one day.

You think is easy, can you make a cup? I can't, do you know the challenges if managing workers? I only knew after working as an low wage employee during my college years. Nothing is as simple as it sounds.

Then there's the fact that there's ASEAN, Africa and Latin America that have all seen what China has done and want a piece of that action, a huge contrast to 10-20 years ago, when India's growth path was seen as the shining light.

You don't really have much idea about India other than some 'perception'. 20 years ago India had just started liberalizing and was in a very sad state, nobody considered India a shinning light. India's growth potential is yet to be realized.

Looking at that last part really shows that you think China will implode, or at least not do well, which explains why you think India will catch up. Though I'll remind you, every year there are those predictions, I can pull up 5 year old threads and show you Indian comments on this and reference it to now, or any nationality.

Just because China continued with the policy of massive economic stimulus to deliver growth doesn't mean that there is no problem in Chinese economy, you should worry about the delay in economic correction rather than being happy about it, that delay has made the problem even more complicated, and time will unfold it.

Except in order for India to match China you need to match our per capita as well, we don't need to match the per capita of US.

Also we were able to do so with the crazy amount of revenue we gained from exports, I mean it would take 20 years alone for India to match our F/E even if you do well in exports.

You know, not everyone is pro China and anti India, and we are the propaganda warriors, geez.

Again, service industry just doesn't have that much to offer to people who don't have education, and I don't mean basic education, I mean post secondary education of which India is severely lacking as evident by every metric that measures the post secondary education quality.

Fun fact, China's universities also built on the environmentally damaging, the land robbing, and low paying, slave labor that India apparently is too good for.

Another fun fact, we can now cut back on pollution, our parents have used that money to sent their kids to higher education and even themselves are earning a healthy amount.

You want to do service industry? Of course you will succeed, but for how many is the question, especially with competition coming from other places as well.

The quality of Indian education is evident from the success of Indian expat community in any corner of the world. And I am too tired to repeat in last few pages that having a good service industry doesn't mean discarding manufacturing, China has focused in manufacturing, we are focusing on both. I am not sure what is troubling you and some of your compatriots here, lack of comprehension skill or general lack of understanding.
 
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Since when India has discarded manufacturing? Manufacturing will surely increase, India is fast emerging as an automobile manufacturing hub, we lack in manufacturing of electronics products, but govt. is taking steps to strengthen it. Services will be additional revenue & employment generator, and we are already doing well in services which is not limited to IT industry only.
Where did I say India discarded it, nobody can discard manufacturing, even the smallest country must make something. Again you are naming individual industries, that's fine, if you are South Korea or even Japan, but we both have 1.3 billion people. You should know how many people that actually is.

China's 2004 GDP was less than $2 trillion, you didn't sound so pessimistic then, did you?

There was no China equivalent then, there was the US giving us the manufacturing, the world really, today, not only is there a China, but there's Africa, there's ASEAN, there's Latin America, all wanting a piece of that manufacturing pie that China has made popular.

We had far less competition and far more favorable circumstances. Back then shipping off jobs wasn't even as b ig a deal as it is now.

You don't really have much idea about India other than some 'perception'. 20 years ago India had just started liberalizing and was in a very sad state, nobody considered India a shinning light. India's growth potential is yet to be realized.

You don't have a manufacturing base as wide as you think, if these people had gone to school they wouldn't even need to be in manufacturing, and the ones that did still need training.

You have no idea about working those kind of jobs and management do you.

India's potential is yet to be realized, and that's the problem. If you are not on the court, you are not gaining experience.

Just because China continued with the policy of massive economic stimulus to deliver growth doesn't mean that there is no problem in Chinese economy, you should worry about the delay in economic correction rather than being happy about it, that delay has made the problem even more complicated, and time will unfold it.

Yea, that's what it is, read more than your India media dude, I read those articles too, and guess what, they keep reshuffling old news to make India seem better, which is understandable, everyone does it but it does make your view of the situation murky at best.

China has slowed stimulus massively, our consumer spending, and minimum wages, land reforms, and much much more are just tip of the iceberg, but all you see is stimulus, which did happen, but is hardly the whole story.

So when I said you see what you want to see, that's exactly what it is.

On the other hand you may think I'm basing my views on old Indian stories, but in fact, I'm simply basing it on experience I had in the industries and it takes time to get skill workers, to weed out those that don't work hard and learn fast, and takes time to know all the procedures to anything and you need hands on experience regardless as every situation is different.

Basing it on the percentage of Indian manufacturing, it's total out put, the number of people coming from the rural areas or still there, and you can easily see that there's a ton of people who had no experience in the field.

The quality of Indian education is evident from the success of Indian expat community in any corner of the world. And I am too tired to repeat in last few pages that having a good service industry doesn't mean discarding manufacturing, China has focused in manufacturing, we are focusing on both. I am not sure what is troubling you and some of your compatriots here, lack of comprehension skill or general lack of understanding.
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Your expats studied outside of India, but even disregarding that, aside from the fact they don't contribute to India itself, they also are a very small number, again we both have 1.3 billion people, not 130 million people.

Check every ranking, the BRICS one, if just India and China, and see where India is.

Dont' go personal dude, as that can be a double edged sword, don't point it, unless you know it won't strike you too.
 
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An economy awakes : Slowly but steadily, India will overtake China - New York Times

By Jonathan Power
Published: May 7, 2004


India is now in the middle of what many Chinese would give their right arm for — a general election. Yet China is the power that gets all the attention.

When President Richard Nixon first went to China it was widely assumed that he was ignoring India and courting China because China had nuclear weapons and could help balance the Soviet Union. But since 1998 India has possessed nuclear weapons and can balance China.

While Washington is slowly waking up to the fact that the tortoise soon might overtake the hare, the investors and the press continue in their old ways. Last year the inflow of foreign capital into China was two and a half times that into India. The press barely covers the Indian election while every day there is a story out of Beijing.

This skewed appreciation has been going on since the time of Mao. China basked in accolades in the 1960s and 70s, while India was mocked for its "Hindu growth rate." China's people were fed, housed, clean and tidy, while India's were ragged, hungry and sinking into a trough of despondency — "a wounded civilization," in the words of the novelist V.S. Naipaul.



With the 1981 famine we could see, to use George Watson's phrase, that "the intellectuals were duped." China had to beg around the world for grain while India had managed to survive the savage drought of 1979 without having to import a sack.

Now with Mao long dead and the capitalist reforms of Deng Xiaoping well into their stride, the story is being repeated but in a more complex way. To many, China's economic progress has been nothing less than spectacular. But inflationary pressures, bad bank loans, a rapidly increasing maldistribution of income and crime all threaten its economic stability.

India, meanwhile, has been gradually but with increasing speed loosening up its old Fabian socialist system. After a major economic crisis in 1991, Finance Minister Manmohan Singh introduced major promarket reforms and fiscal expansion and India's economy has never looked back.

India's annual growth has been averaging 5 percent — and is now 8 percent, thanks to a good monsoon. Singh, who has become Sonia Gandhi's principal economic adviser, believes that with more reforms than the present government has so far countenanced, an average annual growth rate of 6.5 percent is sustainable — which is what he privately thinks China's overhyped growth rate actually is.

India is better placed than China for future growth. Its capital markets operate with greater efficiency. They are also much more transparent. Companies can raise the money they need. India's legal system, while too slow, is much more advanced and is able to settle sophisticated and complex cases. Its banking system has relatively few nonperforming assets.

India's democracy and news media are alive and vital, which provides a safety valve for the incoherent changes that modern economic growth brings. India has religious riots, secessionist movements, urban squalor and bitter rural poverty. But the voters know they can throw the rascals out, and regularly do.

Moreover, the massive flows of foreign investment into China are a two-edged sword. It has become a substitute for domestic entrepreneurship. Few of the Chinese goods we buy are in fact made by indigenous companies. And the few that exist are besieged by regulatory constraints and find it hard to raise domestic capital. China's state-owned enterprises remain massive but bloated and possess a frightening number of nonperforming loans from China's vulnerable banking system.

India, by contrast, has created world-class companies that can compete with the best in the West, often on the cutting edge of software, pharmaceuticals and biotechnology.

India's trump cards are its use of English, its emphasis on mathematics in its schools and the talents of its diaspora. For decades China has benefited from the wealth and the investment potential of its diaspora and the economic energy of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After years of ignoring its émigrés, India is now welcoming them back — and they have much more "intellectual capital" to offer than China's, much of it coming from Silicon Valley, where the Indian contribution has shone.

Watch the tortoise continue its course as the hare starts to lose its breath.

**

Jonathan Power is a commentator on foreign affairs.
 
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An economy awakes : Slowly but steadily, India will overtake China - New York Times

By Jonathan Power
Published: May 7, 2004


India is now in the middle of what many Chinese would give their right arm for — a general election. Yet China is the power that gets all the attention.

When President Richard Nixon first went to China it was widely assumed that he was ignoring India and courting China because China had nuclear weapons and could help balance the Soviet Union. But since 1998 India has possessed nuclear weapons and can balance China.

While Washington is slowly waking up to the fact that the tortoise soon might overtake the hare, the investors and the press continue in their old ways. Last year the inflow of foreign capital into China was two and a half times that into India. The press barely covers the Indian election while every day there is a story out of Beijing.

This skewed appreciation has been going on since the time of Mao. China basked in accolades in the 1960s and 70s, while India was mocked for its "Hindu growth rate." China's people were fed, housed, clean and tidy, while India's were ragged, hungry and sinking into a trough of despondency — "a wounded civilization," in the words of the novelist V.S. Naipaul.



With the 1981 famine we could see, to use George Watson's phrase, that "the intellectuals were duped." China had to beg around the world for grain while India had managed to survive the savage drought of 1979 without having to import a sack.

Now with Mao long dead and the capitalist reforms of Deng Xiaoping well into their stride, the story is being repeated but in a more complex way. To many, China's economic progress has been nothing less than spectacular. But inflationary pressures, bad bank loans, a rapidly increasing maldistribution of income and crime all threaten its economic stability.

India, meanwhile, has been gradually but with increasing speed loosening up its old Fabian socialist system. After a major economic crisis in 1991, Finance Minister Manmohan Singh introduced major promarket reforms and fiscal expansion and India's economy has never looked back.

India's annual growth has been averaging 5 percent — and is now 8 percent, thanks to a good monsoon. Singh, who has become Sonia Gandhi's principal economic adviser, believes that with more reforms than the present government has so far countenanced, an average annual growth rate of 6.5 percent is sustainable — which is what he privately thinks China's overhyped growth rate actually is.

India is better placed than China for future growth. Its capital markets operate with greater efficiency. They are also much more transparent. Companies can raise the money they need. India's legal system, while too slow, is much more advanced and is able to settle sophisticated and complex cases. Its banking system has relatively few nonperforming assets.

India's democracy and news media are alive and vital, which provides a safety valve for the incoherent changes that modern economic growth brings. India has religious riots, secessionist movements, urban squalor and bitter rural poverty. But the voters know they can throw the rascals out, and regularly do.

Moreover, the massive flows of foreign investment into China are a two-edged sword. It has become a substitute for domestic entrepreneurship. Few of the Chinese goods we buy are in fact made by indigenous companies. And the few that exist are besieged by regulatory constraints and find it hard to raise domestic capital. China's state-owned enterprises remain massive but bloated and possess a frightening number of nonperforming loans from China's vulnerable banking system.

India, by contrast, has created world-class companies that can compete with the best in the West, often on the cutting edge of software, pharmaceuticals and biotechnology.

India's trump cards are its use of English, its emphasis on mathematics in its schools and the talents of its diaspora. For decades China has benefited from the wealth and the investment potential of its diaspora and the economic energy of Hong Kong and Taiwan. After years of ignoring its émigrés, India is now welcoming them back — and they have much more "intellectual capital" to offer than China's, much of it coming from Silicon Valley, where the Indian contribution has shone.

Watch the tortoise continue its course as the hare starts to lose its breath.

**

Jonathan Power is a commentator on foreign affairs.





Wow this article was written in 2004 predict India would surpass China for the same reason Indian poster keep on mention, India English speaking nation, India a democratic nation, India large population dividend, India homegrown company could compete with the world, China only a world factory for global corporation, China company lack innovation to out perform India. Some how 11 yrs after this article, India not just unable to overtake China but felt further behind in term of GDP, now China GDP 5x India GDP as 2004 China GDP slightly double India. PS, if I didn't notice the date of the article I would foolishly bought into the hype of India presuming a economy miracle can't be match by mankind.
 
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Wow this article was written in 2004 predict India would surpass China for the same reason Indian poster keep on mention, India English speaking nation, India a democratic nation, India large population dividend, India homegrown company could compete with the world, China only a world factory for global corporation, China company lack innovation to out perform India. Some how 11 yrs after this article, India not just unable to overtake China but felt further behind in term of GDP, now China GDP 5x India GDP as 2004 China GDP slightly double India. PS, if I didn't notice the date of the article I would foolishly bought into the hype of India presuming a economy miracle can't be match by mankind.

This article shows that people have been predicting India's economy will outpace China's 11yeara ago. It's time to stop all these predictions until it really happens.
 
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This article shows that people have been predicting India's economy will outpace China's 11yeara ago. It's time to stop all these predictions until it really happens.





Let wait and see India prediction ever come true since majority of the past prediction seem to have a reversible outcome on India economy.
 
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tortoise...hare...chilli powder. oyster sauce...turtle soup

what the fvck is this author smoking on? :laugh:

one critical thing he forgets to touch upon - INFRASTRUCTURE is KEY to economic growth
 
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Let wait and see India prediction ever come true since majority of the past prediction seem to have a reversible outcome on India economy.

So far they have not been realized. Most western so called experts gave since stopped making any predictions. Only a few like Gordon Chang still shamelessly not knowing when to stop embarrassing themselves.

tortoise...hare...chilli powder. oyster sauce...turtle soup

what the fvck is this author smoking on? :laugh:

one critical thing he forgets to touch upon - INFRASTRUCTURE is KEY to economic growth

They only want to write a good story. But it's not based on reality.
 
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So far they have not been realized. Most western so called experts gave since stopped making any predictions. Only a few like Gordon Chang still shamelessly not knowing when to stop embarrassing themselves.



They only want to write a good story. But it's not based on reality.






Yea so call financial expert predict a miracle to happen for the Indian to mentally masturbate over the idea of surpassing China.
 
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Indian ...Infrastructure....

India's infrastructure and transport sector contributes about 5% of its GDP. India has the world's second largest road network in quantitative terms,[164] covering more than 4.3 million kilometers. Qualitatively, India's roads are a mix of modern highways and narrow, unpaved roads. It is upgrading its infrastructure. As of May 2014, India had completed and placed in use over 22,600 kilometres of recently built 4 or 6-lane highways connecting most of its major manufacturing, commercial and cultural centers.[165] India's road infrastructure carries 60% of freight and 87% of passenger traffic.[166]

Indian Railways is the fourth largest rail network in the world, with a track length of 114,500 kilometers and 7,172 stations. This government owned and operated railway network carried an average of 23 million passengers a day, and over a billion tonnes of freight a year.[167]

India has a coastline of 7,500 kilometers with 13 major ports and 60 operational non-major ports, which together handle 95% of the country’s external trade by volume and 70% by value (rest handled by air).[168] Nhava Sheva, Mumbai is the largest public port, while Mundra is the largest private sea port.[169]
The airport infrastructure of India includes 125 airports,[170] of which 66 airports are licensed to handle both passengers and logistics.[171]

About 74 people out of 100 have land or wireless telephones in India, or about 927 million telephone subscribers, two-thirds of them in urban areas.[172] Internet use has been growing rapidly in India, with an estimated 243 million users in June 2014.[173] This is projected to grow to 330–370 million users by 2016.[174]
 
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