Defending Sind

[CriticalThought]

Dear
It wasn't like that.

Indians were forced to make Cold Start public a long time AFTER we had already got its details thorough covert means and hammered out the responses. It was then the Indians thought it was no use to keep it secret anymore.

Many thanks. And I must say, the depth of our intelligence capability that you are hinting at, my mind is in a spin right now. I mean... well, the less said the better.

But having understood our intel capability, because we are defence aficionados, would you agree to keep discussing various theoretical scenarios, knowing full well they may never come to pass realistically? I am asking permission so I don't waste your time on scenarios that you consider a waste of time.

 

[IceCold]

Dear
It wasn't like that.

Indians were forced to make Cold Start public a long time AFTER we had already got its details thorough covert means and hammered out the responses. It was then the Indians thought it was no use to keep it secret anymore.

Otherwise, why would they make their top secret war doctrine public?

Now that we have Nasir, will it be employed in conventional role with its shoot and scoot capabilities?
On another note as you mentioned in todays electronic network centric environment, there is simply no room left for surprises, so my question is if large Indian formations are detected, does Pakistan need to wait for an actual Indian assault to happen or we can simply strike preemptively first reducing the effectiveness of such an attack.
Of course a preemptive strike by us would directly lead to a war but than we should be in a better position owning to surprising Indians by our initiative. Case in point 27th February. Indians were off the opinion as per their accounts that the most Pakistan would do is to increase ceasefire violations, or send in more Jihaids. They did not expect a full response in broad day light.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Now that we have Nasir, will it be employed in conventional role with its shoot and scoot capabilities?
On another note as you mentioned in todays electronic network centric environment, there is simply no room left for surprises, so my question is if large Indian formations are detected, does Pakistan need to wait for an actual Indian assault to happen or we can simply strike preemptively first reducing the effectiveness of such an attack.
Of course a preemptive strike by us would directly lead to a war but than we should be in a better position owning to surprising Indians by our initiative. Case in point 27th February. Indians were off the opinion as per their accounts that the most Pakistan would do is to increase ceasefire violations, or send in more Jihaids. They did not expect a full response in broad day light.

A preemptive strike in order to disrupt, delay and possibly defeat such a venture is very much on the cards.... Provided the indicators are strong enough.

 

[CrazyZ]

A preemptive strike in order to disrupt, delay and possibly defeat such a venture is very much on the cards.... Provided the indicators are strong enough.

Use long range artillery. Today an artillery shell or rocket (with the relevant technology) can easily hit a and destroy a moving MBT at 30 or more KM. In the open desert...there is no hiding. No way the Indians can get 100's of tanks close to our border with out detection. Precision artillery could knock a lot of their tanks out before they even got to the border.....and keep hitting them if they crossed. Conventional air/armor/infantry would have an easier counter attack. Artillery can cover a large area....a small force would be able to defend a many miles.

If Turks can't get us T129 then may be should work with them on anti tank precision artillery munitions.

 

[CriticalThought]

So, to move the discussion forward, I would like to see specialized versions of Azmat class created for both AAW and ASW, in addition to the current AShW which can also target land based objectives. These can operate together in teams of 3 - 6. One of the AORs would be the following:

Notice the straight black line showing a distance of 109.54 km. I want the development of a new surface to air missile which can follow a parabolic trajectory under its own power, instead of being gravitationally driven and cover a horizontal distance of around 100 km.

Packs of such FACs would be a potent force against Indian dreams of amphibious assaults on Sind.

@PanzerKiel I want to see Pakistani generals introduce requirements for new technology based on their own requirements. Is this happening today? Or do we need to introduce changes for this to happen?

@Rashid Mahmood could you please comment here?

 

[Armchair]

Your theory of a surprise assault on the marshes.... Try running it backwards..... Calculate the figure of the specific number of aircraft, helicopters and amphibious craft that will be required for such an operation....
... Then try assembling then at a place for launch
... Then calculate the troops as well, and also decide from which cantonments these troops will move to assemble...
... Then see whether such a big and assembly of such equipment can be hidden.... That too in today's environment where HUMINT is not the only source of info.

Nature of military intelligence suggests that minor troop movements are not picked up, and even if picked up, is discarded as static noise. This allows an attack on Bhuj. Consider the following:

1. 20x helicopters taking off from various locations
2. One battalion from Karoonjar
3. 5 hovercrafts over Karoonjar adjacent lake
4. Rangers remain relativley undetected as they are spread out, and expected to operate near the border. 10x ranger companies from diverse vectors all along the Bhuj salient
5. Marines ingressing through the sea and the Rann of Kutch inlet - different vector. Say, 4 companies equivalent
6. An army division begins preparations for attack and zero hour, so attack is already under way by the time this division begins moving - meaning at least 1 hour later Indians become aware - but by then forces 1-5 have already been in Indian territory for an hour.
7. Airborne assault - paratroopers - 5 companies equivalent.
8. Massive airstrikes launched by PAF - say 30 minutes into the assault.
9. Hide artillery in Karoonjar mountains and place them at altitude for long range fire support - can literally cover all major salients of Bhuj.

Each of these, except for (6) is by itself too small for the Indians to take note. However, their cumulative effect is a sudden shock, reinforced by the heavy fist of the PA division now coming in to reinforce the initial assault.

*** If I had it my way - An-2 assault teams could also partake in this venture.

 

[Imran Khan]

I don't get it....is India planning an invasion of Sindh?

india is busy in giving land of galwan theses days

 

[Signalian]

Nature of military intelligence suggests that minor troop movements are not picked up, and even if picked up, is discarded as static noise. This allows an attack on Bhuj. Consider the following:

1. 20x helicopters taking off from various locations
2. One battalion from Karoonjar
3. 5 hovercrafts over Karoonjar adjacent lake
4. Rangers remain relativley undetected as they are spread out, and expected to operate near the border. 10x ranger companies from diverse vectors all along the Bhuj salient
5. Marines ingressing through the sea and the Rann of Kutch inlet - different vector. Say, 4 companies equivalent
6. An army division begins preparations for attack and zero hour, so attack is already under way by the time this division begins moving - meaning at least 1 hour later Indians become aware - but by then forces 1-5 have already been in Indian territory for an hour.
7. Airborne assault - paratroopers - 5 companies equivalent.
8. Massive airstrikes launched by PAF - say 30 minutes into the assault.
9. Hide artillery in Karoonjar mountains and place them at altitude for long range fire support - can literally cover all major salients of Bhuj.

Each of these, except for (6) is by itself too small for the Indians to take note. However, their cumulative effect is a sudden shock, reinforced by the heavy fist of the PA division now coming in to reinforce the initial assault.

*** If I had it my way - An-2 assault teams could also partake in this venture.

The role of Pakistan Marines needs to expand for your plan.

 

[Super Falcon]

Just give importance to pak marines with proper amphibious assault vehicles to fight on coastal and Kutch areas