Dassault Rafale, tender | News & Discussions

[KEETARP]

So weapon tests only with the Gripen D (be it in India, or Sweden) and the Gripen NG did only flight tests at Leh!

Bold part , Heeeeeeeee .
Sancho arguing about Gripen with me ,.............Hmmm

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: FLASH! Gripen Demo Clears Leh Trials!

Air Force sources confirmed to LiveFist that the aircraft went through the full routine of tests that the Gripen-D did earlier this year. IAF pilots already got a chance to fly the Gripen Demo in the first week of April at Linkoping, Sweden, but calling the Demo airplane to India was necessary to complete all the demands in the field evaluation test (FET) plan.

First
So what tests Gripen D took in India was matched by Gripen NG

Second
you were wrong that Gripen NG only took tests in India . As I showed above and wrote earlier in some thread - when Volcanic ash was covering Europe ,IAF team flew Gripen NG and did all tests + weapon drop in Sweden . Then Gripen NG came to India where again Weapon trial was held

Third
To remove any doubt that April flight was for Familarity - IAF first tested the simulator , technical characteristic + Feel of aircraft to become familiar in NOV-2009 of Gripen NG in Sweden .

Period .........

Russia:

- Groshkov and Nerpa delayed
- Groshkov refurbishment and Mig 29K price increase
- A50 Phalcon delayed, additional could be more expensive
- Mig 35 development delayed
- New upgraded MKI estimated at twice the costs as older versions

Ptldm3 wrote an excellent post about Gorshkov -

Nerpa - for obvious , Valid reasons .

Mig29K price ......Hmmm- 1.5 bill for 29 jets , that is quite cheap . Considering 10pc increase every year in price of weapons happen . we first bought 16 in 2003 . Calculation would be good .

A50 Phalcon delayed, additional could be more expensive - Delayed yes , but expensive have to see how much more ( 10% law applied)

Mig 35 development delayed - But still as promised production will be started by 2013-014 , considering financial situation of Mig . As I said earlier if IAF agrees to unified airframe based on K (logically too ) . This could be done earlier as well . Nevertheless still much ahead of Eurofighter .

New upgraded MKI estimated at twice the costs as older versions -- Never know what additional package is hidden behind this new deal . May be tech transfer for Arihant / tech for ISRO vehicle + new system for MKI . This is how Russians have always dealt . Only ones who actually support us .

Israel:

- twice the cost for Phalcon AWACS than proposed to China
- delays in integration of Phalcon system and delivery to India

AWACS delayed bcoz of A50 airframe from Ukraine , not Israel .
Not sure about price of chins v India - Link would be appreciated

UK:

- delayes, as well as wrong parts and tools for HAWK trainer

But all solved in time and BAE compromised unlike ................who kept on exploiting IAF as they saw we are in bad need of upgrade .

 

[jha]

(courtesy pogularocky )

 

[jha]

^^^ It seems RAFALE really sucks in TWR.. O.8 TWR is really low (iff the specs are true..)

 

[deepakclaw]

(courtesy pogularocky )

sir does mig 35 cost >60mil?
su 30mki itself wont cost much sir..

 

[TheIndianJatt]

sir does mig 35 cost >60mil?
su 30mki itself wont cost much sir..

he isnt a dealer himself

 

[sancho]

^^^ It seems RAFALE really sucks in TWR.. O.8 TWR is really low (iff the specs are true..)

Hi Jha, a statistic is only as good as the numbers in it and this is full of wrong specs!

Rafale single seat has an empty weight of 9t (10t is the weight of the carrier version), comparable to F16IN and both also have an AB thrust of around 150kN, so how could the T/W ratios so different? Moreover, in it shows that the F16IN even has a better T/W ration than the EF and can SC!
The combat radius of EF is nearly twice as good as of F18SH? F18SH is given with the not developed GE 414 EPE engine and Gripen NG emptyweight is given with 6t (in reality 7.1t) and with the Vixen 500 radar only, not the Vixen 1000.

Simply too many mistakes to make it reliable!

sir does mig 35 cost >60mil?
su 30mki itself wont cost much sir..

We payed around $46 millions for the Mig 29Ks, Mig 35 with AESA and TVC should indeed be more expensive and the upgraded MKIs with AESA are said to cost even $80 millions each. However, these are estimation only, we will have to wait for reliable figures.

 

[sancho]

Bold part , Heeeeeeeee .
Sancho arguing about Gripen with me ,.............Hmmm

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: FLASH! Gripen Demo Clears Leh Trials!

Buddy you missed the important part of the headline! As it said Gripen Demo did the Leh trials, which were flight trials with heavier loads, in very harsh conditions, but did not include weapon tests. So Gripen Demo did the same Leh trials that the D did there before too and that's what your earlier source said too.
Gripen NG so far is only a demostrator, it don't has weapons integrated, or is able to use them. Even the radar is just for demostration reasons only, but not the real version that will be in the final Gripen E/Fs.

Here another report about it:

Earlier this year an in-country evaluation of the Gripen NG was successfully completed, with the deployment representing the demonstrator aircraft's first international commitment.

The aircraft left Linköping on 17 May and the following day completed its ferry flight to Jamnagar via refuelling stops in Kecskemet (Hungary), Athens (Greece), Hurgada (Egypt), Riyadh (Saudi Arabia) and Muscat (Oman).

Trials were made in the harsh environmental conditions at Leh air base, 10,800ft above sea level in the Himalayas. During the day, the temperature was as high as 49°C (120°F).

"The aircraft was loaded with full fuel tanks and IRIS-T missiles. Eight sorties were made in India, both by Swedish and Indian air force pilots," de la Motte says.

The evaluations included in-flight refuelling with an Ilyushin Il-78MKI tanker, and engine ground runs and restarts were also performed, with to problems were reported. The Gripen NG returned to Sweden on 22-23 May.

FARNBOROUGH: Saab plots bright future for Gripen programme

As you can see no weapon trials with the NG and as mentioned in the earlier sources, even in Sweden weapon trials only possible with Gripen D.

When Saab send the D's to India, I stated that this is a big problem, because although they will be able to do the trials, these are not the fighters that are on offer to us and IAF can't get a hint of the real performance. Saab is the only vendor that was not able to send at least a prototype version to do the trials! Mig 35 also available only as prototypes and not fully developed of course, still did the full trials and they did not send just Mig SMTs. You see the difference right?
Btw that is what the gentleman from the key forum said too, that IAF is still discussing about the Gripen NG, because the requirement was, that the fighter that is on offer should do the trials, not an earlier version.
If Saab did not send the NG at least for the Leh flight trials, I am pretty sure they would be disqualified.
I still would choose it over the EF, or Mig 35, but the more I read about it from Brazil, or other competitions, the more I think it is a risk. Also in terms of maturity, by far not what you believe it is, but I will explain it in the PM.

AWACS delayed bcoz of A50 airframe from Ukraine , not Israel .
Not sure about price of chins v India - Link would be appreciated

No need to talk further about it, I just pointed out that we face the same problems with nearly all countires.
Because you asked for a source about the A50s cost, which even is 4 times higher:

India pays dearly for poorly negotiated arms deals

It has recently been reported in the Israeli press that India paid more than double the amount for the purchase of three AWACS aircraft from Israel in March 2004. These aircraft were earlier being sold to China for US $358 million but the deal had to be aborted under US pressure. Subsequently, India agreed to buy them for US $1.1 billion–a whopping US $742 million more than the price agreed to by the Chinese.

India pays dearly for poorly negotiated arms deals | Indian Defence Review

And AWACS was not only delayed from the Russian side, but also from Israel, that's why Minister Anthony openly criticised both sides to keep delivery dates!

Antony 'anxious' to get timely delivery of defence procurements

Defence Minister A K Antony on Thursday said that he was 'anxious' to get timely delivery of defence procurements as it controls rise in costs, and wants suppliers to fulfil their commitment in time.

"I conveyed my anxieties to both of them, Israeli and Russian ambassadors, here that they will deliver the remaining two AWACS in time. The anxiety is not country centric," Antony said after inducting the first of the three airborne early warning and control systems (AWACS) in the Indian Air Force...

Antony 'anxious' to get timely delivery of defence procurements

 

[dbc]

the F16IN even has a better T/W ration than the EF and can SC!

Clean config F-16 can supercruise.

 

[sancho]

Clean config F-16 can supercruise.

Even LM statet that it hardly achieve mach 1.1 and not for long, that's why they don't count it as SC capability.

 

[deepakclaw]

is the cost of f 16in been disclosed?
last time i heard i has not been.
can any one provide onfo on this plz

 

[dbc]

Even LM statet that it hardly achieve mach 1.1 and not for long, that's why they don't count it as SC capability.

Wrong, SC only counts when you can do so carrying weapons. By definition, none of the MRCA contenders can SC, the Typhoon is perhaps in a grey area where it may be able to SC with two AA missiles.

Like I said before the F-16 can SC clean - but it doesn't count.

 

[amit27]

Those figures are wrong $30 million for the f16 viper block 60? lol dont make me laugh

 

[KEETARP]

One
to show - that your source was just guessing when he said Mig35 failed trials .

Mig35 passed all tests , and it was confirmed by Rosoboronexport yesterday .

MiG-35 passou em todos os testes na Índia | Poder Aéreo - Informação e Discussão sobre Aviação Militar e Civil

Russian authorities reported on Monday that the fighter MiG-35 passed all the technical evaluations made by the Indian Air Force and meets all the requirements that force for competition MMRCA.

Now upto you whether to believe this Person or not , he is simply biased for Rafale nothing else and cooking his own ideas that he knows MRCA trial reports .

Buddy you missed the important part of the headline! As it said Gripen Demo did the Leh trials,

You said Gripen did only Leh trials , there was no testing in Sweden ?????

This is from Link

IAF pilots already got a chance to fly the Gripen Demo in the first week of April at Linkoping, Sweden, but calling the Demo airplane to India was necessary to complete all the demands in the field evaluation test (FET) plan.

So , Yes Gripen NG / Demo was in fact tested in Sweden by IAF pilots . But whether they used it for Missile firing is a big ???????
I agree with your point that Gripen NG is still testing the integration of radar guided missile .
But my info / source say Gripen dropped Bombs in a weapon demonstration . How did they do it - I am unaware ( May be by Pod only )

So Gripen Demo did the same Leh trials that the D did there before too and that's what your earlier source said too.

No not only Lehb , but all tests req to be done in India

Air Force sources confirmed to LiveFist that the aircraft went through the full routine of tests that the Gripen-D did earlier this year.

To add

Empty weight of Rafale
Twin seater is 9.75 ,
single seater is 9.5 &
M version is more than 10.1 .

F3+ version or Indian version may have added weight depending upon new Equipments added in 2012 .

So yes add 4 of Fuel - We have 9.7+4 = 13.7
add Combat load of just 3000 Kg( 2 Mica RGM + 2 MiCA IR + 6 Paveway IV 500 lbs ) weight becomes = 13.7+3 = 16.7
Thrust is 7.5 * 2 = 15 at full afterburner

15 * 10 / 16.7 * 9.8 at full afterburner comes < 1

As I said until they get thrust to at-least 180 KN in afterburner .

By definition, none of the MRCA contenders can SC, the Typhoon is perhaps in a grey area where it may be able to SC with two AA missiles.

Gripen supercruises at M1.2 with A2A load of four missiles

 

[&#1052;&#1080;&#1043;-29]

My favs are Mig-35 followed by Eurofighter & then Rafale. The others are simply too risky given the fact that the aircraft's country has a habit of throwing its weight around and expect others to follow its lead(It's bad enough LCA is caught). If they don't well, we all know what happened to Pakistan.

Edit:
As for the Thrust to weight ratios-

TWR or T/W ratio = (Max Thrust of Engine / (Empty Weight + (3.505 Tonnes of Fuel & Weapons, or only Internal Fuel)))

1.30 - Su-35BM
1.29 - F-15K
1.26 - Su-27S
1.25 - Eurofighter
1.24 - Mig-35
1.23 - Su-27SK & J-11A
1.19 - Rafale C
1.19 - Mig-29M/M2
1.19 - F-15C
1.18 - F-22 (T/W = 1.37 with Round nozzles)

1.16 - Su-30MKK
1.15 - F/A-18E/F
1.15 - Mig-29B (9-12)
1.14 - Su-30MKI
1.13 - Rafale M
1.13 - Mig-29 (9-13), S, SD, SE & SM
1.10 - Mig-29 BM & SMT (T/W = 1.15 during Emergency Thrust*)
1.09 - F-16E Block 60
1.09 - Mig-29K
1.09 - F-18C

1.09 - J-8III(or J-8C)
1.08 - F-35A
1.08 - F-14 B & D
1.06 - F-16C Block 52 (Block 50: T/W = 1.055)
1.05 - J-8IIm
1.04 - AV-8B+ Harrier II
1.03 - F-2A (F-2B: 1.02)
1.03 - JH-7
1.02 - F-16A Block 10
1.01 - J-8II & J-8IIb & J-8IId

1.00 - F-35B
1.00 - Harrier GR7A
0.99 - Su-34 & Su-32FN & Su-27IB
0.99 - Sea Harrier FA2 & FRS51
0.99 - F-16A Block 20
0.98 - J-10A
0.97 - Su-15T
0.95 - MiG-23 P, ML, MLA & MLD
0.94 - F-35C
0.94 - Gripen NG

0.94 - F-4E
0.94 - J-8
0.93 - Mirage 2000-5
0.93 - Su-15TM
0.93 - F-101B
0.92 - Harrier GR7
0.92 - E E Lightning F6
0.91 - F-16C Block 25
0.91 - Yak-28 I & P
0.91 - F-111F

0.91 - Su-24
0.90 - Su-15
0.88 - Mirage-2000 C & H
0.87 - LCA
0.87 - F-14A
0.87 - Mig-23 MF & MS
0.87 - Su-24 M, MK & M2
0.86 - FCK-1
0.86 - Su-9
0.84 - Su-11

0.84 - Su-17M
0.83 - Tornado F3 Air Defence Variant
0.83 - Tornado GR1
0.83 - Su-20
0.82 - JF-17 (T/W = 0.86 during Emergency Thrust*)
0.82 - Su-22
0.81 - Gripen A
0.81 - Su-7B
0.81 - F-20
0.80 - Gripen C

0.80 - Mig-27K
0.80 - Su-7BM
0.79 - Mig-21 Bis (T/W = 1.11 in Emergency Thrust mode**)
0.79 - JA-37 Viggen
0.79 - Mig-27
0.79 - Su-17M2
0.78 - Mig-23BN
0.78 - Su-7 BKL & BMK
0.78 - Javelin FAW MK9
0.77 - Mig-23S

0.77 - J-7IIIa
0.76 - Mig-27 D & ML
0.76 - Mig-23M(E)
0.76 - F-106A
0.76 - F-7MG & F-7BG & F-7PG & J-7E & J-7G (WP-7N: T/W = 0.69)
0.76 - Q-5D
0.75 - Kfir C.7
0.75 - Kfir C.2
0.75 - AJ-37 Viggen
0.75 - J-7III

0.74 - Mig-21SM
0.73 - Su-17
0.73 - Mig-21MF
0.73 - Su-17M3
0.73 - Mig-19S*** (MTOW T/W = 0.86)
0.72 - Yak-27K
0.72 - Su-17M4
0.72 - F-104G
0.71 - Mig-19P*** (MTOW T/W = 0.84)
0.71 - Mig-21PF

0.71 - Supermarine Scimitar F.1
0.71 - Cheetah C
0.70 - Mig-21M
0.70 - Su-25SM
0.69 - Jaguar GR1
0.69 - J-35F Draken
0.69 - Mig-21F
0.69 - Mig-21 F-13
0.69 - J-7II
0.69 - Su-25 or Su-25T

0.68 - F-105F/G
0.68 - Mirage 50
0.68 - F-7M(or F-7MP or F-7MB) & F-7P
0.67 - F-1
0.67 - F4D-1/F-6 Skyray
0.66 - Mirage F-1
0.66 - F-8P
0.64 - F-102A
0.63 - Sea Vixen FAW.2
0.63 - Su-25TM or Su-39

0.62 - Yak-27
0.61 - Yak-38M (TWR during STOVL/VTOL takeoff: 1.20)
0.61 - Mirage-5A
0.61 - J-32B Lansen
0.60 - A-4S1
0.59 - Mirage-III E & D
0.58 - Yak-38 (T/W during STOVL/VTOL takeoff: 1.16)
0.58 - IAI Nesher
0.58 - F-5E Tiger-II
0.56 - F-100D

0.56 - A-6E
0.55 - A-7E
0.51 - Super &#201;tendard
0.50 - F3H-2 Demon
0.49 - A-10A
0.49 - F-11A
0.49 - AMX
0.47 - &#201;tendard-IV M
0.46 - F-89D
0.46 - Super Myst&#232;re B.2

0.46 - Hunter F 6
0.45 - Marut Mk.1
0.43 - Yak-25
0.43 - F-94C/F-97A
0.43 - F9F-8/F-9J Cougar
0.41 - A-37B
0.37 - Myst&#232;re IVA
0.37 - FJ-4 Fury
0.36 - F7U-3M
0.34 - F-84F

0.33 - J-29F Tunnan
0.33 - P-80C
0.32 - Supermarine Attacker F.1
0.31 - F2H-3 Banshee
0.30 - Ouragan M.D.450B
0.30 - F3D-2 Sky Night
0.29 - Venom FB.1
0.29 - F-84G


Pure Interceptors
1.30 - Mig-31M
1.30 - Mig-31BM
1.28 - Mig-31B
1.27 - Mig-31FE
1.27 - Mig-31E
1.22 - Mig-31
1.21 - Mig-25M
1.00 - Mig-25 P & PD
0.93 - Mig-25BM
0.74 - Tu-128




Empty Weight - Thrust - Aircraft

41,447 - 31,967 X 2 - Su-35BM
37,500 - 29,160 X 2 - F-15K
36,111 - 27,557 X 2 - Su-27S
24,251 - 20,000 X 2 - Eurofighter
24,251 - 19,841 X 2 - Mig-35
37,192 - 27,557 X 2 - Su-27SK & J-11A
20,948 - 17,000 X 2 - Rafale C
25,573 - 19,841 X 2 - Mig-29M/M2
31,700 - 23,450 X 2 - F-15C
43,340 - 30,100 X 2 - F-22(35,000lbf - Thrust with round nozzle)

39,903 - 27,557 X 2 - Su-30MKK
30,600 - 22,000 X 2 - F/A-18E/F
24,030 - 18,300 X 2 - Mig-29B (9-12)
40,565 - 27,557 X 2 - Su-30MKI
22,478 - 17,000 X 2 - Rafale M
24,692 - 18,300 X 2 - Mig-29 (9-13), S, SD, SE & SM
25,573 - 18,300 X 2 - Mig-29 BM & SMT (19,180lbf - Emergency Thrust*)
22,000 - 32,500 X 1 - F-16E Block 60
28,550 - 19,841 X 2 - Mig-29K
24,700 - 17,700 X 2 - F-18C

22,509 - 16,535 X 2 - J-8III(or J-8C)
29,300 - 39,900 X 1 - F-35A
43,600 - 27,800 X 2 - F-14 B & D
19,700 - 29,160 X 1 - F-16C Block 52 (Block 50: 420lb & 240lbf more)
21,671 - 15,422 X 2 - J-8IIm
14,865 - 23,400 X 1 - AV-8B+ Harrier II
21,000 - 29,600 X 1 - F-2A (F-2B: 21,235lb)
31,967 - 20,515 X 2 - JH-7
15,600 - 23,830 X 1 - F-16A Block 10
21,671 - 14,815 X 2 - J-8II & J-8IIb & J-8IId

32,000 - 39,900 X 1 - F-35B
15,708 - 23,400 X 1 - Harrier GR7A
49,163 - 28,219 X 2 - Su-34 & Su-32FN & Su-27IB
14,052 - 21,450 X 1 - Sea Harrier FA2 & FRS51
16,285 - 23,830 X 1 - F-16A Block 20
20,394 - 27,557 X 1 - J-10A
22,818 - 14,770 X 2 - Su-15T
22,553 - 28,660 X 1 - MiG-23 P, ML, MLA & MLD
34,800 - 39,900 X 1 - F-35C
15,653 - 22,000 X 1 - Gripen NG

30,328 - 17,845 X 2 - F-4E
20,470 - 13,219 X 2 - J-8
16,000 - 22,045 X 1 - Mirage 2000-5
23,970 - 14,770 X 2 - Su-15TM
28,495 - 16,900 X 2 - F-101B
15,708 - 21,450 X 1 - Harrier GR7
28,042 - 16,360 X 2 - E E Lightning F6
18,238 - 23,770 X 1 - F-16C Block 25
21,980 - 13,448 X 2 - Yak-28 I & P
47,481 - 25,100 X 2 - F-111F

46,738 - 24,692 X 2 - Su-24
22,531 - 13,669 X 2 - Su-15
16,538 - 21,384 X 1 - Mirage 2000 C & H
14,330 - 19,100 X 1 - LCA
40,104 - 20,900 X 2 - F-14A
24,008 - 27,558 X 1 - Mig-23 MF & MS
49,163 - 24,801 X 2 - Su-24 M, MK & M2
14,300 - 09,500 X 2 - FCK-1
16,920 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-9
18,876 - 22,267 X 1 - Su-11

21,605 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-17M
31,970 - 16,410 X 2 - Tornado F3 Air Defence Variant
31,065 - 16,005 X 2 - Tornado GR1
21,936 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-20
14,520 - 18,300 X 1 - JF-17 (19,180lbf - Emergency Thrust*)
23,027 - 25,353 X 1 - Su-22
14,595 - 18,097 X 1 - Gripen A
18,453 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-7B
13,150 - 17,000 X 1 - F-20
14,991 - 18,097 X 1 - Gripen C

26,252 - 27,558 X 1 - Mig-27K
18,629 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-7BM
12,037 - 15,654 X 1 - Mig-21 Bis (21,829lbf - Emergency Thrust**)
27,866 - 28,100 X 1 - JA-37 Viggen
24,317 - 25,336 X 1 - Mig-27
23,369 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-17M2
24,692 - 25,336 X 1 - Mig-23BN
19,599 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-7 BKL & BMK
23,955 - 12,300 X 2 - Javelin FAW MK9
21,583 - 22,487 X 1 - Mig-23S

11,629 - 14,815 X 1 - J-7IIIa
25,573 - 25,336 X 1 - Mig-27 D & ML
22,046 - 22,487 X 1 - Mig-23M(E)
24,420 - 24,500 X 1 - F-106A
11,667 - 14,650 X 1 - F-7MG & F-7BG & F-7PG & J-7E & J-7G (WP-7N: 13,450lbf)
14,054 - 08,269 X 2 - Q-5D
17,130 - 18,750 X 1 - Kfir C.7
16,061 - 17,901 X 1 - Kfir C.2
27,006 - 25,970 X 1 - AJ-37 Viggen
11,861 - 14,650 X 1 - J-7III

11,574 - 14,308 X 1 - Mig-21SM
21,164 - 21,164 X 1 - Su-17
11,795 - 14,308 X 1 - Mig-21MF
26,014 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-17M3
12,009 - 07,165 X 2 - Mig-19S*** (MTOW: 16,667lb)
15,443 - 08,318 X 2 - Yak-27K
26,810 - 24,692 X 1 - Su-17M4
14,082 - 15,600 X 1 - F-104G
12,507 - 07,165 X 2 - Mig-19P*** (MTOW: 17,042lb)
11,354 - 13,492 X 1 - Mig-21PF

23,962 - 11,250 X 2 - Supermarine Scimitar F.1
14,550 - 15,900 X 1 - Cheetah C
11,795 - 13,613 X 1 - Mig-21M
20,723 - 09,921 X 2 - Su-25SM
15,432 - 08,040 X 2 - Jaguar GR1
17,339 - 17,262 X 1 - J-35F Draken
10,624 - 12,654 X 1 - Mig-21F
10,739 - 12,654 X 1 - Mig-21 F-13
11,850 - 13,219 X 1 - J-7II
20,944 - 09,921 X 2 - Su-25 or Su-25T

28,393 - 24,500 X 1 - F-105F/G
15,763 - 15,870 X 1 - Mirage 50
11,629 - 13,219 X 1 - F-7M(or F-7MP or F-7MB) & F-7P
14,017 - 07,305 X 2 - F-1
16,024 - 16,000 X 1 - F4D-1/F-6 Skyray
16,314 - 15,873 X 1 - Mirage F-1
19,700 - 18,000 X 1 - F-8P
19,350 - 17,200 X 1 - F-102A
27,954 - 11,240 X 2 - Sea Vixen FAW.2
23,677 - 09,921 X 2 - Su-25TM or Su-39

15,395 - 07,165 X 2 - Yak-27
16,535 - 14,770 X 1 - Yak-38M (Lift Engines: 07,165lbf X 2)
14,550 - 13,669 X 1 - Mirage-5A
16,535 - 14,680 X 1 - J-32B Lansen
10,250 - 10,800 X 1 - A-4S1
15,540 - 13,669 X 1 - Mirage-III E & D
15,476 - 13,448 X 1 - Yak-38 (Lift Engines: 06,724lbf X 2)
16,061 - 13,669 X 1 - IAI Nesher
09,558 - 05,000 X 2 - F-5E Tiger-II
20,638 - 16,000 X 1 - F-100D

25,630 - 09,300 X 2 - A-6E
19,781 - 15,000 X 1 - A-7E
14,220 - 11,265 X 1 - Super &#201;tendard
21,287 - 14,400 X 1 - F3H-2 Demon
29,000 - 09,065 X 2 - A-10A
13,810 - 10,500 X 1 - F-11A
14,837 - 11,030 X 1 - AMX
13,007 - 09,703 X 1 - &#201;tendard-IV M
24,200 - 07,400 X 2 - F-89D
14,087 - 09,920 X 1 - Super Myst&#232;re B.2

14,121 - 10,146 X 1 - Hunter F 6
13,658 - 04,856 X 2 - Marut Mk.1
12,610 - 04,409 X 2 - Yak-25
12,708 - 08,750 X 1 - F-94C/F-97A
11,866 - 08,500 X 1 - F9F-8/F-9J Cougar
06,211 - 02,850 X 2 - A-37B
12,941 - 07,734 X 1 - Myst&#232;re IVA
13,210 - 07,700 X 1 - FJ-4 Fury
18,210 - 04,600 X 2 - F7U-3M
13,830 - 07,220 X 1 - F-84F

10,681 - 06,070 X 1 - J-29F Tunnan
08,420 - 05,400 X 1 - P-80C
08,426 - 05,100 X 1 - Supermarine Attacker F.1
13,183 - 03,250 X 2 - F2H-3 Banshee
09,132 - 04,991 X 1 - Ouragan M.D.450B
14,989 - 03,400 X 2 - F3D-2 Sky Night
09,200 - 04,856 X 1 - Venom FB.1
11,470 - 05,560 X 1 - F-84G


Pure Interceptors
48,281 - 36,376 X 2 - Mig-31M
48,115 - 36,376 X 2 - Mig-31BM
45,569 - 34,171 X 2 - Mig-31B
49,383 - 36,376 X 2 - Mig-31FE
46,297 - 34,171 X 2 - Mig-31E
48,104 - 34,171 X 2 - Mig-31
41,667 - 29,762 X 2 - Mig-25M
41,447 - 24,684 X 2 - Mig-25 P & PD
45,415 - 24,684 X 2 - Mig-25BM
54,013 - 22,706 X 2 - Tu-128


# Data from Official Company & Military sites, Aerospaceweb.org, Airwar.ru, Globalsecurity.org, Fas.org, Warfare.ru, Wikipedia.org & its References, and Other Sources.
# Weight in lb, and Thrust in lbf.
# 3505 kg = 7727 lb
# Not all of them are Fighter Planes.
# Some of the Fighters' data couldn't be obtained, and hence could not be included in the above list.
# Individual engines' SFC(Specific Fuel Consumption) & Individual aircrafts' standard Air-Air payload weight, based TWR cannot be determined due to unavaliability of SFC data for Older Engines. Even in the case of some Newer Engines, SFC data is not avaliable.
# It's likely that the 35,000lbf thrust for F119(F-22's engine) doesn't include flat nozzles. For an engine thrust decrease of 14&#37;, which accompanies flat nozzles, F-22's TWR would drop down to 1.18. It's known that Flat nozzles reduces the thrust of an engine from 14%-17%. Given the fact that the F-35's engine, which is a derivative of the F-22's engine, but newer & bigger than the F119 engine, has a thrust of 39,900lbf with round nozzles, it's likely the 35,000lbf fig for F119 is also for round nozzles.

* Klimov States that Thrust as "Take-off emergency mode"
** The conditions for 21,829lbf Emergency Thrust are limited to 3 Minutes and Altitude less than 4000m.
*** Empty weight + 7727 lb exceeds max takeoff weight. Except Mig-19 all other less MTOW(Maximum Take-Off Weight) fighter planes are omitted.

 

[sancho]

One
to show - that your source was just guessing when he said Mig35 failed trials .

Mig35 passed all tests , and it was confirmed by Rosoboronexport yesterday .

My source? Didn't you posted his comments from another forum?

Regarding Mig 35, even if you don't think that the gentleman is reliable (which I don't take for granted either), would you expect any other reaction from Rosoboronexport? I mean several media reports claimed about 1, or 2 fighters needed modification, or even failing the trials, but so far all vendors said they did well in the trials right? So that report is not really negating the claims of him. If a fighter really failed for any technical reason, I expect real infos only after the shortlistings, but for sure not from the vendors.

You said Gripen did only Leh trials , there was no testing in Sweden ?????

No, I said all the Gripen NG can do so far, are flight testings only and that's what they did at Leh as well as in Sweden and the real MMRCA trials was done by Gripen Ds!
These included the trials at Leh with landing, engine restart and take off with heavy loads, as well as air refuelling (exactly what the Gripen NG did in may), but also weapon trials at Pokhran, or hot weather trials at Jaisalmer.
As the sources said, Saab offered IAF officials to fly the NG in Sweden, but weapon tests could only be done by the D's again.

We now have 3 different sources that confirms all the above mentioned (one even provided from you!) and the Livefist report clearly says trials at Leh, so you still want to refuse the reality?