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hmmmm agreed or not it is the Americans who are going to bag the deals.... All those signals are really absurd and doesnt carry any weightage... Apart from the signal ... you can clearly see the pressure and lobbying done by Americans... As per BR one guy has done good prediction what is the real motive for Antony not to meet gates.. it is the Teens which are considered and Antony want to make sure the selection is not bound by pressure..
 
Boss i am very logical...

Not at all, because refuse facts and even official specs and base your arguments as I expected only on this:

but you are confused that it is in the category of MKI.. MKI is a heavy weight fighter

which is is far away from beeing logical!
 
Signals from the defence ministry in recent weeks are that Sweden’s Saab JAS 39 Gripen and France’s Dassault Rafale have an edge in the Indian selection process at this stage of the MMRCA deal.
I am very happy to hear this...
 
Not at all, because refuse facts and even official specs and base your arguments as I expected only on this:

which is is far away from beeing logical!

Which Factor is refused.. You decide?.. in a BVR a fighter having maximum number of missiles will not be able to bring down the enemy?..
MKI will be able to muliti rack missiles and carry 8tonne of payload?.. i feel i am very much logical on the both.. and it seems you are not able to understand what i am expressing....

your argument

Lets say 4 x R73 and 8 x R77 = 1820Kg payload... you say it is only always one missile for a hard point??? logical... my argument it can carry multiple Archer on the same point until the hardpoint reaches the maximum capacity... your arguments are literally debunked here...

see Mig bison with R-60 of IAF
R-60B.jpg




hopefully you understand EFT and Rafale can never able to carry the payload nor able to over power MKI at any situation... unless they have the sufficient numerical advantage..
 
[video]http://www.timesnow.tv/videoshow/4367809.cms[/video]

Obama pushes for 'Jet deal'- TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

The United States has begun to exert pressure on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in what coould be called open lobbying for F-16 fighter planes. TIMES NOW is in possession of copy of the letter sent by US President Barack Obama to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh exerting pressure for a fighter deal.

In a letter addressed to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh dated February 4, 2011 Obama stated that buying Amercan Boeing F/A-18 IN and Lockheed Martin F-6IN will improve strategic ties between India and US.

In his letter to Manmohan Singh, US President Barack Obama wrote, "In the spirit of this friendship I want to underscore the strategic importance the US attaches to the selection of a US proposal in India's medium multi roll combat aircraft competition."

Obama also stated , "Additionally you can be confident in probity and transparency of doing business with American companies.''

"The United States Government is offering India two of the most advanced multi mission combat aircraft in the world-the Boeing F/A-181N and the Lockheed Martin F-16IN. Let me assure you the US is a willing capable & relaible defence partner to India. High technology defence sales are increasingly a cornerstone of our strategic partnership. this typw of technology is only provided to our closest allies and partners."

"During my visit in November 2010, we committed to expand our relationship in new and ambitious areas, giving our peoples a vision of a strategic partnership that promises decades of close collaboration in the pursuit of the shared goals of prosperity and security. Through our recent initiatives, the United STates has demonstrated its commitment to India's rise and its global leadership role. (The selection of a US proposal for the MMRCA tender will strengthen our partnership, launch our defence cooperation on an ambitious and rewarding trajectory, and provide strategic continuity to our growing relationship.''
 
Air Weapons: Too Smart For Americans
March 15, 2011: A British Typhoon fighter recently successfully dropped the first Paveway IV used by this aircraft type. This test was to confirm that the Eurofighter Typhoon's fire control system could program a Paveway IV with GPS target information. Paveway IV is a dual guidance (laser/GPS) kit that is attached to an unguided bomb. The 50.5 kg (111 pound) Paveway kit (guidance electronics, computers and battery powered winglets) attached is attached to the bomb. But to work, the carrying aircraft must have a fire control system that enables the pilot to get the GPS data (received from troops on the ground) into the Paveway IV equipped bomb.
The Paveway IV system is actually a guidance kit that, once attached to a one ton, half ton or quarter ton bomb, can achieve precise (within a meter or less) accuracy using a laser designator, or use GPS guidance to land within ten meters (31 feet) of the aiming point. The U.S. firm that manufactures the Paveway bombs, Raytheon, has produced over 250,000 kits so far, of which about twenty percent have been used in combat, with great success. Earlier versions of Paveway did not have GPS. Most just only had laser guidance. While more accurate, laser guidance requires that someone on the ground or in the air be shining a laser on the target. The Paveway then homes in on the reflected laser light (of a particular frequency).

The Paveway IV is not used by the U.S. Air Force or Navy, but, so far, is only exported. The biggest buyers have Arab nations in the Persian Gulf. In the U.S., JDAM and other GPS-only weapons are much more popular.
 
Mer et Marine : Toute l'actualité maritime
Google translate: French to english:
First operational deployment for the Damocles pod on Rafale

13704.jpg

Damocles pod on Rafale in tests of the system


According to our colleagues Air & Cosmos, naval aviation has led, in January, its first operational missions with the couples Damocles / Rafale. From the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle, during the last mission Agapanthus, pilots of Rafale F3 have implemented the new laser designation pod developed by Thales. This equipment, which began shipping in 2010, allows aircraft to the Navy and Air Force to perform independently in firing laser-guided. Previously, the use of laser guided bombs require, in effect, two aircraft, a Super Etendard Upgraded illuminated the target while the other device freed his arms. With the commissioning of the F3 standard Rafale and the arrival of Damocles, a single device can now identify and treat the lens.

13705.jpg

Damocles pod on Rafale

According to Air & Cosmos, no bombs were dropped in this way in Afghanistan, where the air group's Charles de Gaulle was hired in late 2010. However,the firing of exercise have been conducted with the Damocles pod and GBU 12 .
For the record, the Rafale in the Charles de Gaulle also during Agapanthus, implemented for the first time during operational missions, the Reco NG reconnaissance pod.

30145.jpg

Reco NG sur Rafale
 
MKI will be able to muliti rack missiles and carry 8tonne of payload?...

No it can't, because A, neither Flankers, nor Fulcrums have multi pylons for missiles and B, it's still the weight limit of the hardpoint that you ignore!

A hardpoint that can carry only up to 300Kg, can't carry 2 AAMs and the weight of the multi pylon, or a heavy anti ship missile, or a heavy bomb. That's the reason why even official weapon loadouts of the Flankers show none of these weapons on the outer wing, or wingtip station.

More over, in your hypothetical scenario what makes you think that EF couldn't do the same? It has a payload of 7500Kg, has even more wingstations than the MKI, that can carry heavier loads (3 of 4 stations can carry bombs) and one of it's future weapon capability is to carry 3 x Brimstone ATGMs on a multi pylon, totalling in up to 18 missiles:

brimstoneantiarmour7.jpg


So by the same hypothetical logic that you use for the MKI, the EF must be able to do the same, or even more!

But all these speculations here are pointless, because the payload is limited by the weight limit of the hardpoints and can't increased beyond that, only by useing less fuel like you think. Not on the MKI and also not on the EF, because this logic would be the same for MKI again.

Oh btw, you mentioned the Elta jamming pods of MKI. Adding them to a normal A2A config means, it looses 2 stations, while EF has these techs integrated in the fighter and the ECM wingtip pods. That means MKI carries the same maximum load of 10 missiles, that EF would carry as well!

Again, the only field where MKI has an advantage is radar range, which in return will be countered by the big RCS. Against lighter fighters with less capable radars that won't be a big issue, but against a modern and capable fighter like EF, it's simply a different issue. In all other performance specs, the EF is at least comparable, if not superior!
That has nothing to do with the weight class, but with the capabilities of both fighters and the EF is undeniably one of the best at least in air superiority!
 
why a EF / rafale when Gripen can do the same job..

because when we choose a platform we have to go for the possible best.GRIPEN may be enough for 2025 but we need fighters to have an edge beyond that period.so we need to select todays best so that tomorrow also it remain good enough.
 
because when we choose a platform we have to go for the possible best.GRIPEN may be enough for 2025 but we need fighters to have an edge beyond that period.so we need to select todays best so that tomorrow also it remain good enough.

so what is which Gripen/SAAB can't offer beyond 2025..?
 
No it can't, because A, neither Flankers, nor Fulcrums have multi pylons for missiles and B, it's still the weight limit of the hardpoint that you ignore!

A hardpoint that can carry only up to 300Kg, can't carry 2 AAMs and the weight of the multi pylon, or a heavy anti ship missile, or a heavy bomb. That's the reason why even official weapon loadouts of the Flankers show none of these weapons on the outer wing, or wingtip station.

More over, in your hypothetical scenario what makes you think that EF couldn't do the same? It has a payload of 7500Kg, has even more wingstations than the MKI, that can carry heavier loads (3 of 4 stations can carry bombs) and one of it's future weapon capability is to carry 3 x Brimstone ATGMs on a multi pylon, totalling in up to 18 missiles:

brimstoneantiarmour7.jpg


So by the same hypothetical logic that you use for the MKI, the EF must be able to do the same, or even more!

But all these speculations here are pointless, because the payload is limited by the weight limit of the hardpoints and can't increased beyond that, only by useing less fuel like you think. Not on the MKI and also not on the EF, because this logic would be the same for MKI again.

Oh btw, you mentioned the Elta jamming pods of MKI. Adding them to a normal A2A config means, it looses 2 stations, while EF has these techs integrated in the fighter and the ECM wingtip pods. That means MKI carries the same maximum load of 10 missiles, that EF would carry as well!

Again, the only field where MKI has an advantage is radar range, which in return will be countered by the big RCS. Against lighter fighters with less capable radars that won't be a big issue, but against a modern and capable fighter like EF, it's simply a different issue. In all other performance specs, the EF is at least comparable, if not superior!
That has nothing to do with the weight class, but with the capabilities of both fighters and the EF is undeniably one of the best at least in air superiority!


I think we are coming round and around and around... First of all explain me .. if a hard point is limited to 300 kg and 12 hard point will come around 3.5 tonne ... so as per official site it can carry 8 tonne of external load.. so means there are hard points configured for more pay load.. do you accept?

oke assume Eurofighter and Rafale as the capability to carry multiple missiles like MKI.. but do they have the range?... Rafale with internal fuel can carry 6 tonne as apposed to MKI of 9tonne..

so they have to carry some external fuel pods.. while MKI has the internal fuel of 9 tonne... while 24 tonne of Normal weight already hoses 5 tonne and it can hose 4 tonne plus 8 tonne to reach the maximum weight of the MKI... it has a very good loitering capability.....

You are either debating in one direction as Air superiority forgetting the range and the loitering which is also important because it can occupy external hard points or arguing only on loitering time forgetting the payload.. which is superior for MKI... lets assume it carries only armaments for 10 hard points carrying the good jammers and litening pod for both Air to Air and Air to ground mission..

Thats why i say MKI is simply unmatched for EFT and Rafale..

Feel free to argue your points
 
so what is which Gripen/SAAB can't offer beyond 2025..?

GRIPEN is single engine fighter designed for a small countries cost effective and easy to use purpose.TYPHOON and rafale are bigger and better fighters.besides we have LCA mk2 which will be in the same class of GRIPEN once it completed.
 
GRIPEN is single engine fighter designed for a small countries cost effective and easy to use purpose.TYPHOON and rafale are bigger and better fighters.besides we have LCA mk2 which will be in the same class of GRIPEN once it completed.

don't you think india also would like to have cost effective and easy to use fighter..?
 
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