Creation of Bangladesh: Myths Exploded by Dr. Junaid Ahmad

[Sine Nomine]

Pakistani military did the ultimate stabbing by targeting our intelligentsia. So many ranging from journalists, news editors, writers, teachers, scientists, bureaucrats were killed during the war and ultimately culminated in 14 December is horrifying.

That's another lie.Tell me when enemy was at gates who fool trying to encircle them and kill them

German cooperation in Nuremberg trial happened because they were totally defeated and fully occupied. The surrender was fully unconditional. They had no choice but to cooperate with the occupation forces (West/East germany btw had not really taken shape politically yet while nuremberg was going on).

If say WW2 finished one year earlier (1944) because say Hitler was assassinated and conditional surrender was agreed upon by both sides (without occupation of Germany), I doubt there would have been something the scale of Nuremberg.

Similarly, any Nuremberg like trial that happened after 1971 would concern all the PA + razakar POW forces within independent Bangladesh (effectively E. Pakistan wing was totally defeated, unconditionally surrendered and was occupied by India + BD forces).

Those that were already back in W. Pakistan would be tried in absentia with the evidence available and then warrant released (just like it was done for many Nazi war criminals that fled/disappeared, many times their location was unknown).

Whether Pakistan state recognises such warrants (and cooperates) is whole different matter....but it would at least be a legal document released by an authority backed by due process.

This also includes document chains located within Pakistan that are subpoenaed by the post war tribunal. Of course Pakistan would not release them (same non-cooperation), but its important to officially request them. The trials would then basically continue to the best degree possible with what you have (evidence, testimony and access to all POWs surrendered in BD). It would have convicted a lot more people and answered many more questions about the atrocities than the pure emotional haze we have now on both sides. Something better than nothing philosophy basically.

They will never do that,doing so will expose there lies.

So Mr Doyalbaba, you can always question any narrative, however if you think there wasnt any atrocities committed by The Pak army during 71 than you must have dropped from a parallel universe. Also if your narrative is that Jamaatis are not war criminals and Islami chatro shongho were not the same people belonging to al badr and al shams than you are only making a fool of yourself.
Thirdly, I would love if BNP or any party fights for Bangladesh with the values and spirit of liberation. But how do you do that with Jamaat? Fact of the matter is you dont..

What happened to biharis and west Pakistanis there,all were killed and here no bengali was harmed,we still have 3 million in Pakistan,mostly settled down in circle of 200km.

 

[Zabaniyah]

This also includes document chains located within Pakistan that are subpoenaed by the post war tribunal. Of course Pakistan would not release them (same non-cooperation), but its important to officially request them. The trials would then basically continue to the best degree possible with what you have (evidence, testimony and access to all POWs surrendered in BD). It would have convicted a lot more people and answered many more questions about the atrocities than the pure emotional haze we have now on both sides. Something better than nothing philosophy basically.

1971 is long gone. The Cold War is long gone. Everyone is happy. So, what is the problem here?

Give It time. Decades later in Bangladesh, We will value scholarship more than passion or ultra nationalism. I am sure there will be extensive fact finding research on neutral ground. 3 lakh or 3 million doesn't matter. Even 1 lakh countrymen killed by its own Military will be an exemplar of perpetual shame.

What happened back then was part of a long bygone era. There is no reason for any form of stubbornness against reconciliation. Or, is there?

The newspapers here still sprout that 3 million figure. Yes, including the likes of The Daily Star/Prothom Aloo.

You are Right! Even a mere one person cold blooded killing from an Army due to his race or language should be considers shameful, then why this stubbornness and forceful attitude from AL/SHW on insisting to recognize 3 Million killings otherwise you are against the state? this is quite un-understandable logically.

Let's say if an independent inquiry occurs under UN which declares that the actual figure of deaths are near Half a million or even one million, does it makes any difference? Does it qualify for Pakistan to be united again as death figures turns out wrong? Does it means people of Bangladesh would might revolt as AL/SHW telling them a wrong figure for 45 years? I don't thinks so remotely..So why this stubbornness on figures?

Let's just say that the folks in power here have a tendency to take things a bit too personally

What happened to biharis and west Pakistanis there,all were killed...

I don't think the Mukti Bahini had that kind of firepower to kill every single West Pakistani and Bihari.

That being said, yes, I have heard stories of Bihari civilians being killed, raped and their properties looted/destroyed. That similarly applies to West Pakistanis. I think it is important for us Bangladesh to acknowledge reflect upon that (backed by documents of-course).

Similarly, it is also important that we both acknowledge the atrocities against the Hindu community despite their Way.

Their Way still go about strong to this day. That force is stronger than ever before right now. And why do you think is that? That is an important question to answer.

 

[Sine Nomine]

I don't think the Mukti Bahini had that kind of firepower to kill every single West Pakistani and Bihari.

Main firepower of Pakistan army was small arms and few old artillery pieces nothing else,muktis were also having that.

 

[Md Akmal]

If you guys believe in this kind of extravagant figure, then why do not you ask the AL govt to go the villages and Unions and count the figure? It may go up, even. Only the cowardice people of Bangladesh can weep on falsified figures.

Lon Nol Communists killed 1.7 million in 4 years. Go to the information about the then Cambodia to know under what circumstances and in what process it was done. Internet is full of this information. Look also for the Vietnam war. Please do not spread gossips if you love history. Lies and distortions have no place in History.

Well, crying babies are different. With only four sabre jets and twenty tanks PA troops killed 3 million, every day 11000 for 270 days? It must be the joke of this Century. This kind of weeping does not bring respect from other nations.


I lived in Syedpur, Parbatipur, Rajshahi and Sirajganj as my father was a railway employee. I can say you are correct to say the Biharis were killed during the first few days. But, they also retaliated in similar manner when PA troops became strong. After the war, of course, the Bihari killing was too much. Bangali people do not consider these facts, instead they keep on crying victim. However, with all kinds of killing, such as AL, innocent people, Biharis and others like Jamaatis, the total killing may not be more than 100,000.

@ If your father was a Railway employee then you may be hearing from your father that most of the killing took place in the Railway Junctions as majority of them used to serve in East Pakistan Railway and before that Assam Bengal Railway.

@ To some extend I agree with the opinion with the comments of " Bloods & Tears" by Kutubuddin that at least in 55 cities of Bangladesh the Biharees were systematically and in a planned manner were killed. And most of these towns and cities are besides Railway Stations like Parbatipur, Bogra, Santhahar, Abdullapur, Khulna, Rajshahi, Laksham, Mymensingh etc.

@ Once whole of the then East Pakistan came under the control of Pakistani Army, Beharees too retaliated but not in mass scale. They killed "chun chun ke" those who were related with Biharee killing and AL but hardly of these categorizes remained inside East Pakistan after killing and looting of Biharee wealth and Banks went to safe heaven. And still it is safe heaven for those people.

@ Yes, it is true that many people died in refugee camp due to food shortage and illness and all are included in the basket.

@ Yes, after independence, a Judicial In-query Team was made headed by DIG, Police. How many they recommended only 67,000 ? Soon, this was disbanded and myth of 3 Million was super imposed. In fact these are the conspiracies of Socialist countries headed by USSR and ignited by our beloved friend India and AL "soraf dhekte hi rahgai".

 

[Zabaniyah]

Main firepower of Pakistan army was small arms and few old artillery pieces nothing else,muktis were also having that.

Actually equipment-wise, they were far inferior relative to the Pakistani military.

So the Biharis I see today must be ghosts then.

 

[Tiger Genie]

Pakistanis can try all they want but the blood and shame of their military's atrocities on people of Bangladesh cannot be simply willed away but creating false videos such as the OP has posted. In its simplest form, Mujib won the elections but the east pakistani establishment did not want to let Mujib govern the country, simply because he was a Bengali. Bhutto's ego and power lust ended up killing hundreds and thousands of Bengalis, and the shameful surrender of Pakistani army.

 

[Al-zakir]

Pakistanis can try all they want but the blood and shame of their military's atrocities on people of Bangladesh cannot be simply willed away but creating false videos such as the OP has posted. In its simplest form, Mujib won the elections but the east pakistani establishment did not want to let Mujib govern the country, simply because he was a Bengali. Bhutto's ego and power lust ended up killing hundreds and thousands of Bengalis, and the shameful surrender of Pakistani army.

Are you sure that was the case?

How come they were PM of united Pakistan. They also hailed from Bengal.

Khawaja Nazim uddin
Muhammad Ali Bogra
Shaheed surharwardy
Nurul Amin

 

[Md Akmal]

Are you sure that was the case?

How come they were PM of united Pakistan. They also hailed from Bengal.

Khawaja Nazim uddin
Muhammad Ali Bogra
Shaheed surharwardy
Nurul Amin

@ What about Iskander mirza ? Oh ! I see he was from Murshidabad - Nawab Family !!

@ In 1970 election,
1. Chief Election Commissioner was Bengali- Justice Satter .Vice President during Zia's time and later elected President. Removed or thrown out by Ershad.
2. Chief Justice was a Bengali - Justice Hamidur Rahman. Famous for Hamidur Rahman Commission. Later his son became the Chief Justice of Pakistan.
3. Cabinet Secretary was Bengali(Probably)- Gohar Ayub- writer of "Last days of United Pakistan".

Bangal me ek purani kahawat hai, " Mayer che masher dorad besi".

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Pakistanis can try all they want but the blood and shame of their military's atrocities on people of Bangladesh

Just like your doing in Kashmir right?

In its simplest form, Mujib won the elections but the east Pakistani establishment did not want to let Mujib govern the country

You mean West Pakistan? or are you so over emotional that you cant think properly?

simply because he was a Bengali

Not true, Bengalis held many prominent positions in Pakistan. In fact there are still millions of Bengali living in Karachi to this day.

I admit that West Pakistan did not respect East Pakistan as it should have, but to say that it was racism or hatred based is an outright lie.

Bhutto's ego and power lust ended up killing hundreds and thousands of Bengalis

300,000 killed on both sides. Tragic, but both sides partook in violence.

shameful surrender of Pakistani army.

Are you being serious? The Army fought against a much larger force surrounding them on all sides, alongside a terrorist group which they had zero experience or training in dealing with. That too with widespread equipment and supply shortages.

Its easy for you to act like an armchair general, but if you were in that situation I doubt you would have lasted even half as long.

 

[asad71]

The fact of the matter is that we would never know the real number.
Also we do not have to force anyone to believe anything. We know atrocities were committed in unprecedented scale. That should be enough.
As Bob Dylan stated "How many deaths will it take till he knows that too many people have died".

Peace brother

GOB has the list. The families of the martyred get pension.

 

[Al-zakir]

@ What about Iskander mirza ? Oh ! I see he was from Murshidabad - Nawab Family !!

@ In 1970 election,
1. Chief Election Commissioner was Bengali- Justice Satter .Vice President during Zia's time and later elected President. Removed or thrown out by Ershad.
2. Chief Justice was a Bengali - Justice Hamidur Rahman. Famous for Hamidur Rahman Commission. Later his son became the Chief Justice of Pakistan.
3. Cabinet Secretary was Bengali(Probably)- Gohar Ayub- writer of "Last days of United Pakistan".

Bangal me ek purani kahawat hai, " Mayer che masher dorad besi".

Oh yes, forgot about him. Indian only like us when we express resenment against Pakistan however they would like us to forget about how they killing our civilians on the boarder, how they intefer with our internal politics, deprived us from our share of water and list can go on and on.

Indian would like us to take us as fool but this, chalaki nahi chalega.

 

[Tiger Genie]

Are you sure that was the case?

How come they were PM of united Pakistan. They also hailed from Bengal.

Khawaja Nazim uddin
Muhammad Ali Bogra
Shaheed surharwardy
Nurul Amin

facts are not open to speculation!

 

[Nilgiri]

1971 is long gone. The Cold War is long gone. Everyone is happy. So, what is the problem here?

Dunno. Maybe ask the BD people that keep opening this kind of topic every week pretty much?

 

[Sine Nomine]

Actually equipment-wise, they were far inferior relative to the Pakistani military.

So the Biharis I see today must be ghosts then.

well as a matter of fact,if there wouldn't have been IA incursion into East Pakistan,there wouldn't have been Bangladesh.
The things due to which I feel pity on Bengalis is fact that,even single bengali was not allowed at surrender ceremony and still it's your victory day"prai shadi mai andulllah dewaney"

 

[Nilgiri]

The things due to which I feel pity on Bengalis is fact that,even single bengali was not allowed at surrender ceremony and still it's your victory day"prai shadi mai andulllah dewaney"

There were some. They just were not captured in the foreground of the official pictures of that ceremony.

But there is picture of one mukthi bahini leader marching along with Niazi, Aurora Singh etc IIRC.*

I agree he should have been in the foreground as well.

*EDIT: this is picture i am talking about with the MB guy pointed out: