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Crashed Copter Sparks Concern About Secrets

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WASHINGTON—The crash of a helicopter involved in the raid on Osama bin Laden's Pakistani hideout has prompted intense speculation about whether the aircraft was specially modified to fly stealthily—and whether its remains could offer hostile governments clues to sensitive U.S. military technology.

According to U.S. officials, two Black Hawk helicopters carrying Navy SEALs landed in the compound in Abbottabad, while two other helicopters circled overhead. One Black Hawk was disabled during the landing, and had to be destroyed by the commandos.

However, remnants of the helicopter, including a nearly intact piece of its tail, suggested that the aircraft involved in the raid wasn't the typical MH-60 Black Hawk flown by special-operations forces. Aviation experts who scrutinized photos of the scene say the tail had unusual features that suggested the helicopter had been extensively modified to fly quietly, while appearing less visible to radar.

The U.S. military has tried in the past to build a stealth helicopter, but has kept secret if it has indeed succeeded.

The wreckage in Abbottabad appeared to have exotic coatings and distinct surfaces and edges reminiscent of stealth aircraft such as the B-2 bomber and the F-22 fighter, aviation experts say. Equally important, they pointed to an unusual dishpan-shaped cover over the tail rotor, perhaps designed to make the aircraft quieter.

"The odds are fair—based on my knowledge of the subject area—the vast majority of the special MH-60s aircraft were purpose-built to make those aircraft as stealthy as they could possibly be," said Jay Miller, an author who has written extensively about stealth aircraft.

Mr. Miller said the remnants of the aircraft suggested extensive use of nonmetallic composite parts, which reflect less radar energy. Likewise, he said the tail's remains suggested that it was designed to shroud or mask metal parts, which are much more visible to radar.

In addition, experts said the tail rotor's design suggested an effort to reduce the "acoustic signature" of the helicopters—in other words, to make them fly more quietly.

Rex Rivolo, a former Black Hawk aviator and helicopter expert, said the distinctive noise of a helicopter's rotor blades is "the signature that gives you away."

Mr. Rivolo said the military had studied a number of methods for reducing helicopter noise, including pairing helicopters with unmanned aircraft to cancel out noise.

But he was skeptical about how far those efforts had advanced.

"It's really never materialized," he said. " 'Whisper mode' just doesn't exist."

The U.S. Army spent billions developing the Comanche, a stealth-helicopter project canceled in 2004. Two prototypes were developed, but Comanches were never fielded because of their high price.

Stealth features would have been particularly important in the bin Laden mission: The Navy assault team presumably wanted to give those in the compound as little warning as possible.

In addition, the commandos entered Pakistani air space without permission of the Pakistani authorities; the longer it took for the Pakistani military to realize the helicopters were there, the less likely they would interfere in the U.S. mission.

The recovery of the tail by the Pakistanis raised questions about whether some of the unique technology may have fallen into the wrong hands.

Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon (R., Calif.), the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, told reporters Thursday he was unaware of any efforts to retrieve the tail. He said there wasn't much left of the aircraft after the SEALs blew it up, said a staffer who was present. The Pentagon declined to comment on the downed helicopter.
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Crashed Copter Sparks Concern About Secrets - WSJ.com
 
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this articale means pakistan got hands on another sensitive miitary technology which it can copy or reverse engineer with china and make a stealth helicopter called CPFH1 CHINS PSKIDTSN FRIENDSHIP HELICPTER 1.WOW NO MONEY OR TRICKS FOR SUCH A SENSITIVE TECHNOLOGY TO COME TO PAKISTAN IN SHAPE OF OBL DEATH HELICOPTER.
 
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China is surely going to inspect this stealth wreckage before they even consider returning it. lol ^^
 
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The risk was mitigated as much as possible, and the risk of tech falling into the hands of Pak was obviously considered before giving the go ahead. It was determined that the risk was worth it obviously. The SEALs mitigated the damage by destroying most of the heli.
 
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The risk was mitigated as much as possible, and the risk of tech falling into the hands of Pak was obviously considered before giving the go ahead. It was determined that the risk was worth it obviously. The SEALs mitigated the damage by destroying most of the heli.

But they still have tail section. They could know the material at least.
 
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But they still have tail section. They could know the material at least.

I have a piece of the tail section..along with a few more souvenir hunters



And its frikkin ordinary!!
 
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I have a piece of the tail section..along with a few more souvenir hunters



And its frikkin ordinary!!



30 bucks..(non negotiable) do we have a deal??:what:
 
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thanks to OBL he gave us stealth choper technology.thanks again good news for pakistan and china.
 
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30 bucks..(non negotiable) do we have a deal??:what:

Sorry.. its gonna go up on ebay :bunny:
Bid there...

Although I dont think I want to part with a piece of history.. which is infact a drab grey half burnt piece of metal..

Seriously.. people did not leave the lights on that thing..
some kid will probably have a MH-60S av grade light on his 70cc bike.
 
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I like the fact that they always screw up, get shot down or encounter technical failures and benefitting countries like China and Russia one way or another. :D
 
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China is surely going to inspect this stealth wreckage before they even consider returning it. lol ^^

they'll return it, but all we need is a piece of the ram coated skin and lots of pictures, not like the electronics inside survived
 
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Sorry.. its gonna go up on ebay :bunny:
Bid there...

Although I dont think I want to part with a piece of history.. which is infact a drab grey half burnt piece of metal..

Seriously.. people did not leave the lights on that thing..
some kid will probably have a MH-60S av grade light on his 70cc bike.

LOl , i can imagine.

Guard 1: That looks like a helicopter light coming over the hill.
Guard 2: Nah its to quiet it sound like some piddly little motorbike.
Both : Its a stealth chopper open fire;)
 
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Pakistan Hints China Wants a Peek at Secret Helicopter

Pakistani officials said today they're interested in studying the remains of the U.S.'s secret stealth-modified helicopter abandoned during the Navy SEAL raid of Osama bin Laden's compound, and suggest the Chinese are as well.

The U.S. has already asked the Pakistanis for the helicopter wreckage back, but one Pakistani official told ABC News the Chinese were also "very interested" in seeing the remains. Another official said, "We might let them [the Chinese] take a look."

A U.S. official said he did not know if the Pakistanis had offered a peek to the Chinese, but said he would be "shocked" if the Chinese hadn't already been given access to the damaged aircraft.

The chopper, which aviation experts believe to be a highly classified modified version of a Blackhawk helicopter, clipped a wall during the operation that took down the al Qaeda leader, the White House said. The U.S. Navy SEALs that rode in on the bird attempted to destroy it after abandoning it on the ground, but a significant portion of the tail section survived the explosion. In the days after the raid, the tail section and other pieces of debris -- including a mysterious cloth-like covering that the local children found entertaining to play with -- were photographed being hauled away from the crash site by tractor.

Aviation experts said the unusual configuration of the rear rotor, the curious hub-cap like housing around it and the general shape of the bird are all clues the helicopter was highly modified to not only be quiet, but to have as small a radar signature as possible.

The helicopter's remains have apparently become another chip in a tense, high-stakes game of diplomacy between the U.S. and Pakistan following the U.S.'s unilateral military raid of bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, more than a week ago. The potential technological advancements gleaned from the bird could be a "much appreciated gift" to the Chinese, according to former White House counterterrorism advisor and ABC News consultant Richard Clarke.

"Because Pakistan gets access to Chinese missile technology and other advanced systems, Islamabad is always looking for ways to give China something in return," Clarke said.

The Chinese and Pakistani governments are known to have a close relationship. Last month Punjab Chief Minister Muhammad Shahbaz Sharif concluded a trip to Beijing, afterwards telling Pakistan's local press that China was Pakistan's "best friend."

Dan Goure, a former Department of Defense official and vice president of the Lexington Institute, said last week the stealth chopper likely provided the SEALs an invaluable advantage in the moments before the shooting started.

"This is a first," he said. "You wouldn't know that it was coming right at you. And that's what's important, because these are coming in fast and low, and if they aren't sounding like they're coming right at you, you might not even react until it's too late... That was clearly part of the success."
Neighbors of bin Laden in Abbottabad, Pakistan, told ABC News they didn't hear the helicopters the night of the raid until they were overhead.

Officials at the U.S. Department of Defense declined to comment for this report, and a senior Pentagon official told ABC News last week the Department would "absolutely not" discuss anything relating to the downed chopper. Several Chinese government officials in the U.S. and in China were not available for comment.

U.S. officials have not officially disclosed any details on the helicopter, but President Obama said it was a "$60 million helicopter," according to a report by The Washington Post. While the price tag on normal Blackhawks varies depending the type, none cost more than $20 million according to the latest Department of Defense procurement report. If the Chinese are allowed to see the wreckage, it may not be the first time the Chinese military was given an opportunity to benefit technologically from America's misfortune. In 1999 an American stealth F-117 Nighthawk bomber was shot down in Serbia, the wreckage of which was reportedly passed along to the Chinese.

More than a decade later, in January of this year, China's first stealth fighter, the J-20, took a test flight that caught international attention and sparked a debate over whether China had developed the stealth-capabilities based on what they learned from the downed Nighthawk. Balkan military officials told The Associated Press the Chinese likely based their designs on the American plane, but Chinese officials denied the allegation in their state-run newspaper, The Global Times. Regardless of its origins, the J-20 could serve as the first major challenge to American air superiority in decades. In an analysis published last week, the conservative think tank The Jamestown Foundation concluded the J-20 was capable of rivaling America's best air-to-air fighter, the F-22, in everything from speed to stealth and lethality.
Osama Bin Laden Raid: Pakistan Hints China Wants a Peek at Secret Helicopter - ABC News
 
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Wah just material ?

1 - They would know what angles the helicopter was quieter at.
2 - The best known RAM coating
3 - The best known compost materials
4 - The remains of electronics
5 - The weapons (I hope some of those might have survived)
6 - The best-tech helicopter Engines (Not much of it though)
7 - the glass quality, material, hardness
8 - Radar sections, pieces etc
9 - The bullet proof fabric material that helicopters are internally lined with
10 - Radar absorbing materials for glass - the F-22 Tech
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20 - the dimensions, size and lots of measurements which will help China produce their next-attach helicopter.
21 - the base of JH-17 (Joint Helicopter 17) - the next Pakistan China totally ingeniousness join venture hehe..

:china::pakistan:
 
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