countries should be buying Saab’s Gripen fighter jet

[BringHarmony]

Not when it’s obvious, hypocritical BS.

If PR is obvious to you then likely PR was not targeted to you.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If PR is obvious to you then likely PR was not targeted to you.

It's not PR, it's patently obvious, hypocritical BS.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Yet Sweden is still in the running offering weapons systems to a country (India) that has been occupying Kashmiris for over 70 years, whose leadership has essentially declared that it wants to commit a form of ethnic cleansing in Kashmir by allowing settlers from the rest of India, a country that has passed laws clearly discriminating against a particular community.

That is the Pakistani point of view.
I can certainly agree on that.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

No way in hell will Gripen win.

 

[ziaulislam]

That is the Pakistani point of view.
I can certainly agree on that.

European union agrees that india actvities in kashmir are immoral and its violation of UN acords but than i remember oh..whom am i talking to..same sweds who gave hitler every means to comit atrocities in WW2..why should i expect them to understand now

۔...Tell me i am wrong..?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I won't buy Grippen, I will rather buy Selex/Leonardo radar it sports (Raven-E or something). That radar IS indeed good. Take that radar and F-414 and build a plane around that which is best suited for your usecase. You will have integration with best of the missiles and an option to extend it.


Business.


I always wonder why India did not select Leonardo/Selex Radar for its own fighter jet program. It has more integration with a number of missiles from US/EU.

The Raven radar is a joint venture between SAAB and Leonardo. Gripen will have proprietary SAAB algorithms to process the raw data coming from the Leonardo frontend.
Just getting the Leonardo frontend is only getting half the puzzle.

 

[ziaulislam]

On gripen i dont think you are going to sell it alot..
Seems the poorer countries will pick up the thunder and the richer the f16

 

[BringHarmony]

On gripen i dont think you are going to sell it alot..
Seems the poorer countries will pick up the thunder and the richer the f16

JF-17 does not have reliable weapons like Meteor and AIM120C / D integrated with it. Chinese weapons are untested and unreliable. Besides, Gripen is light years ahead of anything China can ever produce because Saab has way more experience than any Chinese company.

In terms of number of operators, besides Sweden, for Gripen has 6 including European countries. JF is basically a Pakistan specific Chinese budget fighter. Leaving Pakistan, it is barely operated by 2 countries.

The worst part? China herself does not operate JF-17. Gripen is frontline fighter for Sweden.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Which would be fine as a justification, but the poster I was responding to was arguing that Sweden ‘refused to sell the Gripen to Pakistan because of her record on democracy and military coups’.

So my issue isn’t with the justification of ‘business’ as much as it is with hiding behind BS about ‘caring for democracy & human rights’.

And Indias record on democracy is much much better than Pakistan.
In 2004, Pakistans ranking was probably worse.
Sweden has not offered Gripen to any country which ranks less than #68 as far as I could see skimming through the list.
As I pointed out several times before, several factors are weighed together, and the level of democracy has significant weight, but is not the only criteria.
How likely the country is to use the Gripen against its own citizens is another criteria.
I may be uninformed, but I do not think India has bombed itself for quite some time.

On gripen i dont think you are going to sell it alot..
Seems the poorer countries will pick up the thunder and the richer the f16

If you look at the success of Gripen and compare with Rafale and Eurofighter,
dropping the original consortium/France/Sweden as well as the Middle East, where SAAB is not allowed to sell Gripen, what do You get?

1 Rafale sale - to India
1 Eurofighter sale - to Austria.

The Brazil order for Gripen E is the same number of aircraft as the India Rafale, and they are unlikely to buy something else if/when their plans for 100+ fighters are fulfilled.
The Eurofighter Austrian tranche 1 order was much smaller than the others, and Austria are pissed of and considering replacing them with - Gripen.
The Eurofighter Consortium partners are trying to rid themselves of tranche 1 aircrafts but noone is buying.

 

[BringHarmony]

I may be uninformed, but I do not think India has bombed itself for quite some time.

Thats the biggest thing which will be considered in any PR evaluation. How likely is this country to use the advanced weapons sold to it against its own civilians. I believe Pakistan used its bombers against militants in Baluchistan.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Thats the biggest thing which will be considered in any PR evaluation. How likely is this country to use the advanced weapons sold to it against its own civilians. I believe Pakistan used its bombers against militants in Baluchistan.

Yes, Israel ranks 28th on the democracy index, but would not get permission to buy Gripen either (Not that they would be interested), for the simple reason that this would open up the politicians approving the deal to criticism the instant Gripen would be used in a way that hurts civilians, even if the strike would be 100% justified. Politicians have a nose for such things.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

JF-17 does not have reliable weapons like Meteor and AIM120C / D integrated with it. Chinese weapons are untested and unreliable. Besides, Gripen is light years ahead of anything China can ever produce because Saab has way more experience than any Chinese company.

In terms of number of operators, besides Sweden, for Gripen has 6 including European countries. JF is basically a Pakistan specific Chinese budget fighter. Leaving Pakistan, it is barely operated by 2 countries.

The worst part? China herself does not operate JF-17. Gripen is frontline fighter for Sweden.

Meteor tested where?

 

[BringHarmony]

Meteor tested where?

https://saabgroup.com/media/news-press/news/2018-11/gripen-e-flies-with-meteor/

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

https://saabgroup.com/media/news-press/news/2018-11/gripen-e-flies-with-meteor/

Thunder have been carrying SD10As. They did carry them on 26 and 27 Feb. PL 15s have been carried by J10C, J16 and J20

 

[BringHarmony]

Thunder have been carrying SD10As. They did carry them on 26 and 27 Feb. PL 15s have been carried by J10C, J16 and J20

Chinese weapons. Never used in war. Their manufacturers don't have a record for producing successful weapons. Not trusted by richer countries. Besides, most are second rate copy of Russian weapons.


IIRC, JF-17s only carried bombs during skirmishes on Feb 2019. I remember someone posting awards for pilots with the information on what their planes carried on this forum itself. The source was someone from Pakistan Airforce.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paf-heroes-who-surprised-india.624734/