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Could JF-17 benefit from a photo-recon pod?

Quwa

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JF-17 should get a photo reconnaissance pod
Pakistan should consider integrating the JF-17 with a dedicated photo-reconnaissance pod

10 March 2016

By Bilal Khan

With beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air warfare and precision-guided air-to-ground strike capabilities, the JF-17 has emerged as a credible multi-role fighter, especially from the standpoint of being the Pakistan Air Force (PAF)’s workhorse asset. The JF-17 Block-III has the potential to go further by adopting current advances in radar, avionics, and munitions technology. In addition to the subsystems slotted for use on the JF-17, it may be prudent for the PAF to incorporate a photo-reconnaissance pod on the Block-III.

A photo-reconnaissance pod will enable the JF-17 to capture high-resolution photos at stand-off range (i.e. away from the risk of enemy engagement). Like the DB-110 equipped on the PAF’s F-16s, the JF-17 could enable the PAF (or another end-user) to acquire a thorough understanding of an area. Think of a mountainous area, the JF-17 could capture highly detailed imagery of that area’s hills and pathways. In turn, that imagery could be fed to one of the JF-17’s three multifunction displays (MFD), which could be used to help a pilot in his or her strike operations. Alternatively, the photos could be passed to a ground station via data-link.

The capacity to engage in imagery intelligence (IMINIT) work would enable the JF-17 to serve as a valuable intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) asset. We discussed the idea of equipping the JF-17 Block-III with a suite of versatile air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions (from South Africa), which could enable the Thunder to fulfill a wide range of combat roles. However, the added inclusion of a photo-recon pod would position the JF-17 as a solution for multiple requirements. Imagine the prospect of informing a prospective customer about how the JF-17 could play a role in building a country’s ISR capabilities.

Granted, it is very unlikely the JF-17 would ever be equipped with something directly comparable to the DB-110 (an industry leading solution), but there are genuinely good alternatives. One example could be the Modular Reconnaissance Pod (MRP) developed and produced by the Danish vendor Terma. The MRP was originally developed for use on the Royal Danish Air Force’s F-16s, but it has since evolved into an export-oriented solution. The Swedish Air Force’s JAS-39C/D Gripen became the first outside of the Viper family to be integrated with the Terma MRP. The PAF could work with Terma to develop a variant of the MRP that is suited to the JF-17.

Interestingly, the Turkish vendor Aselsan actually bought the MRP with complete transfer of technology as well as intellectual property in May 2015. It is likely Aselsan will use the technology to roll out a variant of the MRP for use on its own fighters. However, Aselsan’s acquisition clearly demonstrates that Terma is a route worth considering, at least from the angle of acquiring a modern photo-recon pod and being able to produce and maintain it domestically.

If integrated and marketed with the JF-17, the pod could open an additional layer of long-term commercial work for Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), especially in terms of lifecycle maintenance and upgrades. Moreover, integrating a pod of this nature with the JF-17 would imbue the PAF with a redundant solution to the DB-110 and F-16, which may end up being of immense benefit in case it becomes difficult to source additional units (or even maintenance and repair). The benefits of this route would be seen domestically and commercially.

JF-17 should get a reconnaissance pod

@Horus @Tank131 @Bratva
 
Although some sources claim it's for ECM but others insist it's a recce pod.

jf-17-irst-pod1.jpg
 
Yr.................. let them show the 8th Hard point which is dedicated for Targeting pod in Blk 3 Jf17 .............. I suspect that Integrated IRST will not be part of Jf17 but will be carried externally in the form of pod. Once it will appear then there is point of considering Photo Reconnaissance pod for Jf17. If it can carry IRST, Targeting pod, sure it will carry photo recon pod................. but I believe, for photo reconnaissance we better develop a dedicated drone with capability of to fly at long range and high altitude and ''see'' enemy at Stand off distance...............

F15SG (Singapore Air Force) equipped with Lockheed Martin AN AAQ33 Sniper targeting pod and the new TigerEyes IRST
F15SG equipped with AN AAQ33 Sniper targeting pod and the new TigerEyes IRST.jpg
 
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dedicated drone with capability of to fly at long range and high altitude
Another extremely costly program can't afford, it is better to load special POD on regular jet and do the job.
 
I recommend we should install this special pods to DSI and free one hard point.
There will be a dedicated hard point below the ''chin'' of radar cone for carrying out ''pods'' according to mission requirements. It will be used for IRST pod and Targeting pod, so using a photo recon pod is not even a issue.
Another extremely costly program can't afford, it is better to load special POD on regular jet and do the job.
I was talking according to battle field requirements.................. In battle we will need Jf17 for active combat not for recon........ also in hot air, its too risky to send a Fighter jet for recon only when your enemy has strong air defense........ Hence there emerge a need of specialized recon drone..........which if even shot down, will be still cheap to operate and produce and will not cost life loss..............

There are many long range Anti Air systems which overcome the general ''standoff'' range of aircrafts........
 
Although some sources claim it's for ECM but others insist it's a recce pod.

jf-17-irst-pod1.jpg
hmm... The pod in the photo is a lot smaller than a photo-recon pod, which is generally in the size of the DB-110. That specific pod could be IRST. The dimensions of the pod are in line with your typical externally mounted IRST, as is the protruding front.

See this F-16 with the Legion IRST.

mfc-063015-legion-pod-pr.jpg
 
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hmm... The pod in the photo is a lot smaller than a photo-recon pod, which is generally in the size of the DB-110. That specific pod could be IRST. The dimensions of the pod are in line with your typical externally mounted IRST, as is the protruding front.

See this F-16 with the Legion IRST.

mfc-063015-legion-pod-pr.jpg
Yaar why not a SAR/GMTI pod? It offers a few advantages over E/O IR systems.
 
That's an interesting idea. The PAF could work with Finmeccanica (Selex) and its PicoSAR. The SAR just needs to be placed into pod-form and integrated onto the JF-17.

http://www.finmeccanica.com/documents/63265270/65491308/mm07774_PicoSAR_LQ_.pdf?download_file
This Turkish one has a longer range but image resolution for maximum range is not mentioned.

Radar Systems | Capabilities | ASELSAN

@Quwa

SAR equipped UAVs are essential to to our western border's security. I-Master from Thales is another excellent system with a UAV FLIR type scanning mechanism.

 
Although some sources claim it's for ECM but others insist it's a recce pod.

jf-17-irst-pod1.jpg

Agreed with @Quwa that this looks like an IRST pod. If you all remember, Pakistan's AWC produced on such as this in 1994 for PAF Mirage fighters. I really do think though, (despite that it will likely be podded) any IRST solution for JF-17 should be integrated rather than carried on a hardpoint.

As far as photo-recon i think a off the self solution is far more reasonable than developing or even producing in house. The utility is important, but not a core function. In this way, if you have an integrated supplier like Aselsan you create downstrem revenue for them and are more likely to get access to more products (same economic argument for selex finmecchanica and denel)
 
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JF-17 should get a photo reconnaissance pod
Pakistan should consider integrating the JF-17 with a dedicated photo-reconnaissance pod

10 March 2016

By Bilal Khan

With beyond-visual-range (BVR) air-to-air warfare and precision-guided air-to-ground strike capabilities, the JF-17 has emerged as a credible multi-role fighter, especially from the standpoint of being the Pakistan Air Force (PAF)’s workhorse asset. The JF-17 Block-III has the potential to go further by adopting current advances in radar, avionics, and munitions technology. In addition to the subsystems slotted for use on the JF-17, it may be prudent for the PAF to incorporate a photo-reconnaissance pod on the Block-III.

A photo-reconnaissance pod will enable the JF-17 to capture high-resolution photos at stand-off range (i.e. away from the risk of enemy engagement). Like the DB-110 equipped on the PAF’s F-16s, the JF-17 could enable the PAF (or another end-user) to acquire a thorough understanding of an area. Think of a mountainous area, the JF-17 could capture highly detailed imagery of that area’s hills and pathways. In turn, that imagery could be fed to one of the JF-17’s three multifunction displays (MFD), which could be used to help a pilot in his or her strike operations. Alternatively, the photos could be passed to a ground station via data-link.

The capacity to engage in imagery intelligence (IMINIT) work would enable the JF-17 to serve as a valuable intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) asset. We discussed the idea of equipping the JF-17 Block-III with a suite of versatile air-to-air and air-to-surface munitions (from South Africa), which could enable the Thunder to fulfill a wide range of combat roles. However, the added inclusion of a photo-recon pod would position the JF-17 as a solution for multiple requirements. Imagine the prospect of informing a prospective customer about how the JF-17 could play a role in building a country’s ISR capabilities.

Granted, it is very unlikely the JF-17 would ever be equipped with something directly comparable to the DB-110 (an industry leading solution), but there are genuinely good alternatives. One example could be the Modular Reconnaissance Pod (MRP) developed and produced by the Danish vendor Terma. The MRP was originally developed for use on the Royal Danish Air Force’s F-16s, but it has since evolved into an export-oriented solution. The Swedish Air Force’s JAS-39C/D Gripen became the first outside of the Viper family to be integrated with the Terma MRP. The PAF could work with Terma to develop a variant of the MRP that is suited to the JF-17.

Interestingly, the Turkish vendor Aselsan actually bought the MRP with complete transfer of technology as well as intellectual property in May 2015. It is likely Aselsan will use the technology to roll out a variant of the MRP for use on its own fighters. However, Aselsan’s acquisition clearly demonstrates that Terma is a route worth considering, at least from the angle of acquiring a modern photo-recon pod and being able to produce and maintain it domestically.

If integrated and marketed with the JF-17, the pod could open an additional layer of long-term commercial work for Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), especially in terms of lifecycle maintenance and upgrades. Moreover, integrating a pod of this nature with the JF-17 would imbue the PAF with a redundant solution to the DB-110 and F-16, which may end up being of immense benefit in case it becomes difficult to source additional units (or even maintenance and repair). The benefits of this route would be seen domestically and commercially.

JF-17 should get a reconnaissance pod

@Horus @Tank131 @Bratva

It is a great idea actually which has a great potential of being implemented practically. Once PAF Mirage's with LORAP and Precise guided night strike capabilities gets retired in 2023-2025. PAF will eventually has to look for the alternatives. While JF-17 is being touted to replace complete mirage fleet. Eventually PAF will be forced to go to Aselan for Long range recce pod solution. But as predicted, it will take much longer to come in to fruition. I'm guessing it will be in 2025 and 2026 when Block-4 or Block-5 of JF will be rolling off the production line or the Block-2 will be going Mid-Life Update by adding extra HP and enhanced capabilities to perform PG strikes.
 

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