Confessions of a Privileged Dalit

[El Sidd]

Whats is ertugulism ?

Doing the Muslim thing

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

I have not seen any real progress tbh, sure people say "no caste blah blah" but when it comes to things like marriage then caste is strictly followed, I have also read how the govt. schemes to promote inter-caste marriages are actually anti-Hindu. Moreover, people genuinely believe that reservation is the actual evil that's continuing the caste system - even here on PDF. My "OBC" friend thought that Dalits are richer than Brahmins because of reservation, when I showed him the data he was shocked. Dalit hatred has taken new forms with constant vilification of Dalit as corrupt, lazy and living off hard working "Savarnas". Dalit politicians are especially vilified, not that they are saints but picking on them to discredit the whole anti-caste movement.

I had an Uzbekistani friend even he was brainwashed by his "general" friends that how reservation is the evil thing that's stalling India's superpower status. And not only Hindus, many UC Muslims, Sikhs and Christians bash reservation left, right and centre. When they say "State is Brahmanical", they refer to this ecosystem.

Lol happened to my family. We had an brahmin family friend. My elder is an brilliant one. He had got admission in IIT with an all India rank of 96. In TN my caste is classified as MBC - most backward. They somehow knew it as that uncle used to sign attestation forms for us being an govt officer.
They were sitting in our home and telling without reservation, it's tough to see 'other' kids competing with them. I was a kid, didn't grasp the meaning. But my dad sure did.

Anyway in TN, the so called caste discrimination by Brahmins today is less visible due to political scenario and they don't have political power. The power has gone from FC to numerically superior BCs. They are the ones having caste superiority now and doing killings and discrimination. That's a sad reality. Dravidian ideology had the opportunity to cleanse the state of caste, but what they did was take power from one group to another. We have a brahmin bride in my family anyway. Many don't know the social mixing happening nowadays. It would one more gen to get rid of castes wrt marriage. But it will be there in some form or another. No country is free of some kind of discrimination.

 

[Soumitra]

I have not seen any real progress tbh, sure people say "no caste blah blah" but when it comes to things like marriage then caste is strictly followed, I have also read how the govt. schemes to promote inter-caste marriages are actually anti-Hindu. Moreover, people genuinely believe that reservation is the actual evil that's continuing the caste system - even here on PDF. My "OBC" friend thought that Dalits are richer than Brahmins because of reservation, when I showed him the data he was shocked. Dalit hatred has taken new forms with constant vilification of Dalit as corrupt, lazy and living off hard working "Savarnas". Dalit politicians are especially vilified, not that they are saints but picking on them to discredit the whole anti-caste movement.

I had an Uzbekistani friend even he was brainwashed by his "general" friends that how reservation is the evil thing that's stalling India's superpower status. And not only Hindus, many UC Muslims, Sikhs and Christians bash reservation left, right and centre. When they say "State is Brahmanical", they refer to this ecosystem.

Reservation should be for 1-2 generation max. I have given my views in this thread.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rese...ight-says-supreme-court.670813/#post-12422402

 

[52051]

What is the genetic composition of Brahmin class? Are they similar to today's Caucasians from center asia/Russia or maybe iranians? Can you tell the high caste from the low caste by their family names

Since by China's historical documents, during Han dynasty, there is one group of Caucasians from Northwest China, pushed by Huns, move to today's north of India, and an official from Han travel to there to try to persuade them to form an alliance against Huns.

But latterly, that group of population move to India, established a kingdom there, not sure about other details.

 

[xeuss]

Reservation should be for 1-2 generation max. I have given my views in this thread.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rese...ight-says-supreme-court.670813/#post-12422402

Perhaps you should ponder why reservations came about in the first place. Because there were a lack of educational institutions and lack of jobs.

70 years later, we should question why we still have a lack of educational institutions and lack of jobs for the masses.

Until we address these issues, reservations should continue for the lower castes to ensure they have a fair chance of success.

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

I laughed out loud at this.

I hope you know that it's an exaggeration. But a funny one, yes.

I have not seen any real progress tbh, sure people say "no caste blah blah" but when it comes to things like marriage then caste is strictly followed, I have also read how the govt. schemes to promote inter-caste marriages are actually anti-Hindu.

I'm talking about my personal experience here. I literally encountered '0' caste bias during my school and college days. I graduated in 2018 so I can fairly say I belong to the new young generation. There was no discussion about caste among my friends (it sounds weird to discuss about caste among friends because friends come from across different castes). In fact, I didn't even know what is caste until I first came across reservations during the 10th and 12th State Board exams. So when you say there's no real progress, that's absolutely wrong.

Regarding marriages, I will agree that people still tend to marry within their castes but among my relatives, there is 1 inter-caste marriage. There was some opposition initially, yes but it was resolved later.

Moreover, people genuinely believe that reservation is the actual evil that's continuing the caste system - even here on PDF. My "OBC" friend thought that Dalits are richer than Brahmins because of reservation, when I showed him the data he was shocked. Dalit hatred has taken new forms with constant vilification of Dalit as corrupt, lazy and living off hard working "Savarnas". Dalit politicians are especially vilified, not that they are saints but picking on them to discredit the whole anti-caste movement.

I had an Uzbekistani friend even he was brainwashed by his "general" friends that how reservation is the evil thing that's stalling India's superpower status. And not only Hindus, many UC Muslims, Sikhs and Christians bash reservation left, right and centre. When they say "State is Brahmanical", they refer to this ecosystem.

Bro, you need to understand why people hate reservation. It's not because they hate Dalits or anything. For them, their progress gets impeded because of reservation and thus the backlash against it. People tend to get disappointed when they don't get their dream branch or dream college, right?

My personal opinion is that reservation should continue until the Dalit per capita income reaches at par or almost at par with the UCs. I think this may take another 2-3 decades yet.

 

[Naofumi]

Indian muslims can lead the way by marrying Dalits and removing the lines of caste and relegion in one stock ........

I wish, it would but unfortunately, caste have seeped into Islam too! Caste and subcontinent go in hand in hand, no religion is untouched by the sin of caste.

Lol happened to my family. We had an brahmin family friend. My elder is an brilliant one. He had got admission in IIT with an all India rank of 96. In TN my caste is classified as MBC - most backward. They somehow knew it as that uncle used to sign attestation forms for us being an govt officer.
They were sitting in our home and telling without reservation, it's tough to see 'other' kids competing with them. I was a kid, didn't grasp the meaning. But my dad sure did.

Anyway in TN, the so called caste discrimination by Brahmins today is less visible due to political scenario and they don't have political power. The power has gone from FC to numerically superior BCs. They are the ones having caste superiority now and doing killings and discrimination. That's a sad reality. Dravidian ideology had the opportunity to cleanse the state of caste, but what they did was take power from one group to another. We have a brahmin bride in my family anyway. Many don't know the social mixing happening nowadays. It would one more gen to get rid of castes wrt marriage. But it will be there in some form or another. No country is free of some kind of discrimination.

I was telling exact this thing to @Cliftonite @letsrock other day. Caste is graded inequality, if you remove the topmost column, the remaining structure remains intact.

Reservation should be for 1-2 generation max. I have given my views in this thread.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/rese...ight-says-supreme-court.670813/#post-12422402

Bro, you need to understand why people hate reservation. It's not because they hate Dalits or anything. For them, their progress gets impeded because of reservation and thus the backlash against it. People tend to get disappointed when they don't get their dream branch or dream college, right?

My personal opinion is that reservation should continue until the Dalit per capita income reaches at par or almost at par with the UCs. I think this may take another 2-3 decades yet.

​

Reservation is not a poverty alleviation program, it's a representation quest. Assume, we were living in British period and the British and Indians decide to have this reservation to give voice to Indians, then should it be confused that this is being done to eradicate poverty among Indians? no. Representation and poverty are different problems and reservation targets only one of them.

I hope you know that it's an exaggeration. But a funny one, yes.

I'm talking about my personal experience here. I literally encountered '0' caste bias during my school and college days. I graduated in 2018 so I can fairly say I belong to the new young generation. There was no discussion about caste among my friends (it sounds weird to discuss about caste among friends because friends come from across different castes). In fact, I didn't even know what is caste until I first came across reservations during the 10th and 12th State Board exams. So when you say there's no real progress, that's absolutely wrong.

Regarding marriages, I will agree that people still tend to marry within their castes but among my relatives, there is 1 inter-caste marriage. There was some opposition initially, yes but it was resolved later.

Dude, I would say people still have very negative connotations of "Dalit/ST/ST" in their minds, freeloader is the most frequent. Like the author said,

Maybe they are right. Don’t you remember one SC/ST person who fit their negative stereotypes in some way? And don’t you sometimes look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if there isn’t something rotten, something bad, something hate-worthy about you?

 

[TheGreatMaratha]

Reservation is not a poverty alleviation program, it's a representation quest. Assume, we were living in British period and the British and Indians decide to have this reservation to give voice to Indians, then should it be confused that this is being done to eradicate poverty among Indians? no. Representation and poverty are different problems and reservation targets only one of them.

But isn't representation and wealth kind of correlated somewhat. Once Dalits start earning substantial amount of money, their awareness as well as their representation will automatically increase, as it's already increasing currently. Nowadays, greater money gives greater representation.

Dude, I would say people still have very negative connotations of "Dalit/ST/ST" in their minds, freeloader is the most frequent. Like the author said,

That's what I'm saying. The term freeloader comes because some UCs think that Dalits are finding it easier to get their way up because of reservation. They don't bother to understand that even now, Dalits have lower per capita income as compared to other castes so it will it take some more time to get rid of reservation.

 

[Soumitra]

Reservation is not a poverty alleviation program, it's a representation quest.

Both are co-related. A rich Dalit does not need reservation.

Dude, I would say people still have very negative connotations of "Dalit/ST/ST" in their minds, freeloader is the most frequent.

They are called freeloaders because without merit they get admissions and promotions.

That is why I am saying let it be for 1-2 generations. If even after that they are not able to uplift themselves then reservation is not working.

 

[Naofumi]

But isn't representation and wealth kind of correlated somewhat. Once Dalits start earning substantial amount of money, their awareness as well as their representation will automatically increase, as it's already increasing currently. Nowadays, greater money gives greater representation.

Both are co-related. A rich Dalit does not need reservation.

As a community, it will take another 100-200 years for Dalits to come at par with UCs, unless we do major land and wealth redistribution.
https://www.business-standard.com/a...-households-own-60-wealth-119011400105_1.html
https://www.financialexpress.com/in...ichest-with-41-of-total-assets-study/1487084/
Also, read this,
https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/02/04/brahmin-please/

They are called freeloaders because without merit they get admissions and promotions.

That is why I am saying let it be for 1-2 generations. If even after that they are not able to uplift themselves then reservation is not working.

Dude, these things like creamy layer etc actually leads to vacant seats for reserved categories which in turn are converted to general seats because not enough numbers of these communities have reached the threshold to even break that point of cut-offs - I read that in top 10k ranks only some hundred SC/ST were their in JEE when Virwal topped mains, this means that there's still not enough pool of privileged Dalits kids.
https://www.forbesindia.com/blog/te...ion-why-cbse-rich-urban-students-fare-better/

 

[Soumitra]

As a community, it will take another 100-200 years for Dalits to come at par with UCs, unless we do major land and wealth redistribution.
https://www.business-standard.com/a...-households-own-60-wealth-119011400105_1.html
https://www.financialexpress.com/in...ichest-with-41-of-total-assets-study/1487084/
Also, read this,
https://www.brownpundits.com/2020/02/04/brahmin-please/

Dude, these things like creamy layer etc actually leads to vacant seats for reserved categories which in turn are converted to general seats because not enough numbers of these communities have reached the threshold to even break that point of cut-offs - I read that in top 10k ranks only some hundred SC/ST were their in JEE when Virwal topped mains, this means that there's still not enough pool of privileged Dalits kids.
https://www.forbesindia.com/blog/te...ion-why-cbse-rich-urban-students-fare-better/

There is No Creamy Layer in SC/ST reservation but it is in OBC.

And regarding cut-off, if a person is not able to get even basic marks in entrance exams then there is no need to give him admission. There should be a criteria that cut-off should be 10% below the lowest cut-off for the general seat. If the last General Category candidate cut-off is 80% then cut-off for reservation should be 72%.

If they cant even clear the low cut-off they will not be a good student. Then these kind of things will happen.

This person scored 0 in GK and -9.79 in Maths but he is still allowed to teach maths. Is this fair to the person, to the General category person who lost out or to the future students of this reservation person ?

He is clearly unqualified but gets in basis a certificate

 

[Naofumi]

There is No Creamy Layer in SC/ST reservation but it is in OBC.

And regarding cut-off, if a person is not able to get even basic marks in entrance exams then there is no need to give him admission. There should be a criteria that cut-off should be 10% below the lowest cut-off for the general seat. If the last General Category candidate cut-off is 80% then cut-off for reservation should be 72%.

If they cant even clear the low cut-off they will not be a good student. Then these kind of things will happen.

This person scored 0 in GK and -9.79 in Maths but he is still allowed to teach maths. Is this fair to the person, to the General category person who lost out or to the future students of this reservation person ?

He is clearly unqualified but gets in basis a certificate

Dude, there ARE problems within the system but it's usually overblown and can be fixed with minor changes.

 

[Soumitra]

Dude, there ARE problems within the system but it's usually overblown and can be fixed with minor changes.

That is what I am suggesting

1 Make reservations only up to 2 generations - This will give benefits to more people

2 Make a minimum cut-off marks based on the lowest marks for GC students. - This will eliminate undeserving negative or zero marks people from getting reservation

What are your objections to these 2 points?

 

[Naofumi]

That is what I am suggesting

1 Make reservations only up to 2 generations - This will give benefits to more people

2 Make a minimum cut-off marks based on the lowest marks for GC students. - This will eliminate undeserving negative or zero marks people from getting reservation

What are your objections to these 2 points?

In theory, nothing but I strongly suspect it will lead to underrepresentation due to reasons outline above.

 

[Soumitra]

In theory, nothing but I strongly suspect it will lead to underrepresentation due to reasons outline above.

Not everyone is meant to go to IITs or become a teacher or join a govt job.

Underrepresentation is better than misrepresentation