Compare between the two Koreas military

[zxmint]

North Korea has no chance. American couldn't control Iraqis insurgency. The main army was defeated in days. With North Korea, I don't think the "people" would rise up to protect Kim Jong and fight against their Southern Brothers, not after they see how wealthy their southern brothers are.

After that, they will hate Americans even more. North Korea attributes its poverty to US's sanction, and it's not totally wrong.You should know that the North was richer than South before 1970's if you learn some history.

 

[gambit]

After that, they will hate Americans even more. North Korea attributes its poverty to US's sanction, and it's not totally wrong.

It is totally wrong. There is nothing to prevent other countries from trading with North Korea.

You should know that the North was richer than South before 1970's if you learn some history.

Yes, history showed that when Soviet and Chinese aid began their decline, poverty in North Korea increases. It showed that communist economies do not work and such is the real cause of poverty.

 

[gambit]

Yes, but that may be the last thing that ROK generals would consider. Surrendering capital city could down the defending army's moral, and that's an unlikely situation for ROK armed forces to leave Seoul.

Losing the country would be even worse.

The NK troops will be so stupid to not to think about how to cross DMZ minefields before invading it? The french built Maginot line with minefields, trenches, tank traps, and fortified gun bases, that didn't help France to hold German invasion in WW2 through unguarded Ardennes. There will always be a way to cross that minefields and do you think NK is that stupid?

How long will it take to cross the mines without detonating them? Can NKR cross the minefield without leaving signs? Tunnels? They are for squad size movements, not battalions or divisions levels.

Politics make up the secondary factor of any successive attempts in the battlefield, the main point is the NVA men were able to deliver such numerous amount of supply to the Vietcong, so it will not be an impossible thing for DPRK military forces to replicate the effort done by the North Vietnamese.

I know that the Tet offensive ended up a failure for the communist Vietnam, but back to our discussion, the effort (including sending the supplies) to make the Tet offensive become a reality was successfully done by the NVA.

Funny to note the fact that you mentioned politics in your previous paragraph, and then you said that the absence of politics would completely destroy the supply lines through trails. War is a continuation of politic, every war is backed by politic, what makes you think that politics will not be involved in the future Korean war?

The Ho Chi Minh Trail was through TWO OTHER COUNTRIES and that complicated the politics. Do you even know what those two other countries are?

 

[gambit]

When Korea war happen again, US will sent its nuke carriers, warships, helicopters....to help South Korean run for their lives like in Vn war 1975.

If carrier doesn't have enough space for more people, then Oki, let's throw some Heli down to the Ocean

That's how US will 'Help' its allies

You cheer for North Korea, but do you have the courage to live there? No, you do not. You are a coward. I have been to South Korea and back to Viet Nam. Between the two, I would live in South Korea. And I have the courage to say so.

Back in Viet Nam, I have been propositioned by girls to take them out of the country and by mothers to take their young daughters for the same. Beautiful girls at that. Is that how you want our homeland to be? How many Viet girls got suckered by Chinese men and are now living lives of misery, practically slaves, in China. Is this your communist dream? Your support for North Korea make you an unwitting accomplice to the Chinese, who have nothing but contempt for both nations to start.

Your presence here cheering for North Korea make you nothing but a foolish government stooge.

 

[zxmint]

North Korea has no chance. American couldn't control Iraqis insurgency. The main army was defeated in days. With North Korea, I don't think the "people" would rise up to protect Kim Jong and fight against their Southern Brothers, not after they see how wealthy their southern brothers are.

After that, they will hate Americans even more. North Korea attributes its poverty to US's sanction, and it's not totally wrong.You should know that the North was richer than South before 1970's if you learn some history.

 

[zxmint]

It is totally wrong. There is nothing to prevent other countries from trading with North Korea.


Yes, history showed that when Soviet and Chinese aid began their decline, poverty in North Korea increases. It showed that communist economies do not work and such is the real cause of poverty.

I know you would say it is the original sin of communism, hahaha~~~Then how do you explain China's economy growth?

 

[gambit]

I know you would say it is the original sin of communism, hahaha~~~Then how do you explain China's economy growth?

Because China is no longer a communist country. It is a one-party dictatorship that allows capitalism.

 

[zxmint]

Because China is no longer a communist country. It is a one-party dictatorship that allows capitalism.

You called it capitalism, we called it market-economy.It does not conflict with socialism.

 

[gambit]

You called it capitalism, we called it market-economy.

It is the same thing......That is hilarious. Desperate to whitewash China's gross mistake with communism so say a 'market-economy' is not capitalism.

It does not conflict with socialism.

Did I say it was? Stop. And start admitting that the communist experiment was a spectacular failure in both economic and human terms.

 

[zxmint]

It is the same thing......That is hilarious. Desperate to whitewash China's gross mistake with communism so say a 'market-economy' is not capitalism.


Did I say it was? Stop. And start admitting that the communist experiment was a spectacular failure in both economic and human terms.

In China, capitalists knee down at politicians, not the opposite. Although they got some connections, the officials are never pure businessmen.That is the biggest difference.

 

[hurt]

i don't think so
1 dos NK have UAVs
we manufacturing them you can see this TATI

2 dos they have ship to ship missiles in there ships
we have Exocet Missile

the only thing that NK is butter than Tunisia is the number of soldiers

if NK attack SK . USA will bomb all the missile and nuck bases in NK by surgical strike

Korean People's Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of active North Korean ships - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Korean People's Army Ground Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

1 UAVs can do nothing for 40000 vs 1Million.

2 NK have ship to ship missiles, lots P-15 Termits build by themself and some Silkworm missiles.
NK navy is always powerful than your navy after you use out Exocet.

Nk air force power than yours.
Navy power than yours.
land army power than yours.

If NK weak than you,there is no NK in the world.

By the way, NK attack Sk,Seoul　near battlefront 50 km

Because China is no longer a communist country. It is a one-party dictatorship that allows capitalism.

bullshit, china is socialism country.

 

[ViXuyen]

South Korea can't hope to go to war without risking total destruction of their 50 years of hard work.

Seoul is within range of NK's SPH, MLRS, Ballistic missiles. Using precision-guided munitions like cruise missile is pointless as NK's tanks, SPH, MLRS, missle launcher, SAM radars are all mobile. Kosovo war demonstrated the absolute failure of cruise missiles as NATO wasted 1000 Tomohawk just to hit dummy sites of the Serbs while the rest of Serbian's military assets remained virtually intact from destruction.

South Korea can't even hope to achieve air superiorty before its jewel Seoul got leveled by NK. Gulf War 1991, coalition with 1500 4th generation aircrafts vs 0 Iraqi 4th generation fighters; yet it took the coalition like a month to suppress the Iraqi's antiquidated air defence systems. Not yet, the coalition lost 57 aircrafts. Mind you, Iraq is a country in the middle of a flat desert with absolutely no cover at all.

It took NATO like 78 days of air campaign to make Serbia capitulate and the reason that Serbia had to because its civilian infrastructure got hit, you can forget about hitting NK's civilian infrasture since they don't even have any.

How can SK even hope to achieve air superiority over NK with 240 F16/F15? SK will lose much more than 57 that the coalition lost in 1991 Gulf War to even think about dominating the air space of NK. SK's 240 fighters will run out pretty quick if it has to face an air defence that thick like NK. The examples of the 1991 Gulf War and the Kosovo War show that it will take much longer and lose much more for South Korea to even think about air "superiority"

Meanwhile SK is trying to achieve air superiority, NK's shells, rockets, missiles are keep raining down on Seoul and on SK's semiconductor plant, shipyards, automobile plants, nuclear plants, bridges. SK's hardwork of 50 years will be destroyed in a few days or week. The Japanese and Chinese are more than happy to see Samsung, Huyndai go away and I bet ya a lot of economic interest groups out there would chuckle to see SK get destroyed.

There is a reason why America brought "democracy" to Iraq and Serbia because Iraq and Serbia are not next to Chicago or New York geographically. However, South Korea will not dare to bring "democracy" to NK because NK is right next to SK.

 

[nufix]

Losing the country would be even worse.

There's no strong evidence that surrendering capital would serve the purpose of defending the whole country, for the advancing army, getting a city deep inside the defending army's territory will become a huge checkpoint and retreat point for them and a big lose for the defending army, everything is controlled by the capital city, do you think setting up secondary command center in, let's say Ulsan or Incheon, will be less than 2 weeks? enough for the advancing army to pursue the retreating defending army and take another advance deeper into the defending army's pockets.

You said that you trained with ROK guys, does that mean you are in the military? if it is yes, I don't know a U.S soldier would even consider surrendering a capital city for an uncertain probability, that's a huge gamble.

How long will it take to cross the mines without detonating them? Can NKR cross the minefield without leaving signs? Tunnels? They are for squad size movements, not battalions or divisions levels.

I never said that NK army should cross the minefields without leaving signs like ninja, what matters is how long NK can keep SK off balance by replicating surprise attack method. Besides, not all places are mined, border gates for example, yes the attack would alert the whole country but quick armored led attack will keep SK off balance. France knew the German Panzer divisions are coming through Ardennes, there was even a minor tank battle near Dumont, but France didn't take the risk of loosing the defense along the Maginot line to reinforce the France army around Dumont and Sedan because they thought that the attack through Ardennes is a diversion. SK would do the same thing like the French did, I bet SK will not loosen its defense points along the border before knowing which one is the main spearhead, and like I said before, knowing which one is the spearhead in Blitzkrieg style will take weeks for the defending army.

The Ho Chi Minh Trail was through TWO OTHER COUNTRIES and that complicated the politics. Do you even know what those two other countries are?

Laos and Cambodia, yes but you didn't answer my last question, what makes you think that politics will not be involved in future Korean war? Do you even realize that Politic is the one that keep North Korea exist until now? It is not impossible for Politics to do the same favor in times of war.

 

[帅的一匹]

As long as North korea doesn't launch attack first, there will be no problem at all.

 

[jhungary]

Who will win?? I will try to pass on a non-biased judgment here, using my expertise as an Infantry Officer.....

First Question you need to ask, will Nuclear Bomb in plays? (I don't think NK have the skill the mininaturize the fission material for warhead) So, will Nuclear bomb in plays.

Second Question, who shoot first?

Pre-battle Assumption

You can discount both Navy (assume US do not response in Naval Blockade) both Navy do not have enough to lay a blockade on each other territorial water. So, as most both navy are used as Naval Bombardment for hard target on land.

Air Force, NK airforce currently have in ivnentory

40 Mig-29
50 Mig 23
200 Mig 21/F7B
100 Mig 19/F6
100 Mig 17/F5

South Korean Air Force have the following

60 F-15K
210 F-16 (All model)
70 F-4
170 F-5E

Assume the kill ratio

F-15K : 1.5 Mig 29UB, 2 Mig 23, 3 Mig 21/19/17
F-16 : 1 Mig 29UB, 1.5 Mig 23, 2 Mig 21/19/17
F-4 : 0.5 Mig 29, 1 Mig 23,21/19/17
F-5 : 0.5 Mig 29/23, 1 Mig 21/19/17

After the initial engagement, ROKAF will have the air dominance of

30 F-15K
85 F-16
0 F-4
0 F-5

South Korea achieve overall and regional air dominance.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, if war started by the North Korean Side. North Korean can probably penetrate 10-20 mile inland (Over Seoul, the capital)
before being driven back by combine effort of air and land force of South Korea. First day of the war would see the destroy of the air power of North Korea, and tactical communication hubs, transport hubs of North Korean near the Border of the south. Without them, NK will suffer a resupply problem and while ROKAF roam the sky and ramdomly attack supply column driven to the south. With a further defensive line in Inchon-Gyeonggi-Gangwon defense line, mark the begining of hill area. Unless NK have way to evade ROKAF CAP. this would be where the offenive line of NK drew. Would take appoximate 1 weeks to 20 days.

After the first 20 days. Where the attacking NK force used up 50-70% of supply, unless they are to fight hand to hand, they will need to withdraw. The ROK Army will push from 2 entry, covered by air support and artillery strike. 30 F-15K could have destroy 50up to 70 armored target per sortie with the effective engagement rate of 90%. plus another 85 plus F-16 can achieve a 40-50%destroy rate of North Korean armor.

That will leave NK down from 5000 MBT to effective 2400-3000 MBT. and face off with ROK Army's 2500 MBT. Assume the kill rate is 1 : 1 in the end, the South would have come out ahead in any plateau fight as ROKAF gain air superiority localling and nationwide.

By now, the North assult should be all but die down, there are two option for NK ground force. Either retreat back to NK or hold out and call for more troop, bring up the reserve. By this time, estimated troop loss will be about 20-25% for North Korea (based on the ratio attacker/defender 2:1 without aircover only artillery cover.) and ROK ground force will be about 10%. While in the air, ROKAF continue pounding the NK massing point and rally point, thus create more casualty for NK gorund force.

It should be note that without air cover, ground troop assembly rate are about 70-80% effective (assume 4 rally point with 4 entry route corresponding to NK Army station before the war. With ROKAF have 20% interdiction rate. There are literally no way NK can punch tho the 38 parallel again. Because either they need to move their AA defence ahead of the marching column, and set up and wait for infantry and armor to defend them, thus casue casualty on the AA, or they need to leave the AA defence behind and move their infantry and armored without any AA cover, thus cause casualty on them. In this case, losing a chuk of raplceable infantry would be much perferred than losing a chunk of non-replacaeble AA defenses.

So this indicated to a battle of attrition. See who lose more first, did NK lose enough troop or ROKAF lose enough aircraft first. In all, there are no futher chance for NK to move across the 38 again without putting out their AA defense as cannon fodder.

Will the South Counter attack is another issue